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Quickie cycle ?
- Thread starter JKurz1
- Start date
njmuscleguy
New member
Not 100% sure what you're asking.... what's your goal for this cycle? How long? I would run the proviron regardless of whether you decide with fast-acting or slower-acting esters.... the cycle I'm just finishing was NPP, Prop, and Prov (10 weeks).... didn't make any phenomenal gains since I didn't take in mega amounts of calories...wanted to stay on the leaner side....the 7-10lbs I gained are solid, not water, not fat... I'm sure to keep most of it when I'm done
JKurz1
Banned
DEBATING....I want to come off, rest and then do another cycle or just cruise for a few months and add in a cycle...maybe cruise, finish this bottle at 15 weeks, get on some hcg for a week or two...continue cruizing and go 400mg test cyp 300mg npp with 50mg prov...want to stay hard no bloat or little if possible.....
silver_shadow
New member
jeff, i hope you realize that the longer you stay on at this point, the less likely you are going to (or should i say going to be able to) come off. the point being that once you've pushed the HRT button, there's no question of coming off - there's only bumping doses for full blown cycles - so i guess you're going to have to decide whether you wanna be on for the rest of your life or whether you want to attempt to gain back your nut function.
JKurz1
Banned
ok, so I finish this off at 15 weeks (it's only been 250mg test, but I know test is test, it shld be much easier to come back).........then go with hcg for a week, and crank in the clomid and nolv...can you give me some advice on using those two.....then I'll decide what to do.
15-16 weeks is not crazy bro....some come off after 6 months, some after a year, but I realize it gets harder...i'll get tested after and see what my doc says, but my test will be and has always been low.....
does clomid and nolva help produce test? Should I eat the same and is it like being on a cycle aside from the derpression?
15-16 weeks is not crazy bro....some come off after 6 months, some after a year, but I realize it gets harder...i'll get tested after and see what my doc says, but my test will be and has always been low.....
does clomid and nolva help produce test? Should I eat the same and is it like being on a cycle aside from the derpression?
silver_shadow
New member
no clomid and nolva are not the same as being on cycle. i suggest throwing in some herbal supps into your nolva/HCG PCT - i think the PCT forum would be a good place to check out what's good.
blut wump
New member
Those who run for many months are often well experienced with their own PCT and are lucky enough to have easy recoveries. After a few years of cycling they've found that they recover more easily than most. Some, of course, are just rolling the dice. The PCT forum has many horror stories of guys who have been running PCT after PCT for a year or more and still haven't managed to recover fully. Anyway, I'm getting off-topic.
If you go to pct_calculator, you can enter your cycle into the program and it will show you when to begin PCT. You want to time your HCG usage to coincide with the day before you begin PCT.
I'd recommend getting an AI to help with your PCT. AIFM should be a reasonable choice. You could start using that forthwith and run it for a further two weeks past the clomid. The clomid you run from the day that PCT begins at 50mg per day for three or four weeks, as you see fit. You could add Nolvadex but it's probably not necessary. If you do run it, include it at 20mg per day from the day you begin your HCG.
I'd suggest that you spend some time readng around to double-check these suggestions.
If you go to pct_calculator, you can enter your cycle into the program and it will show you when to begin PCT. You want to time your HCG usage to coincide with the day before you begin PCT.
I'd recommend getting an AI to help with your PCT. AIFM should be a reasonable choice. You could start using that forthwith and run it for a further two weeks past the clomid. The clomid you run from the day that PCT begins at 50mg per day for three or four weeks, as you see fit. You could add Nolvadex but it's probably not necessary. If you do run it, include it at 20mg per day from the day you begin your HCG.
I'd suggest that you spend some time readng around to double-check these suggestions.
blut wump
New member
Don't start the clomid until after the HCG finishes. You can happily drop the Nolvadex at that time.
The HCG protocol you outline here is one of the common ones. Two more were outlined in your other thread. My own preference is 1000 IU EOD for six shots. With the dose of Test you've been running, you could run the ten-day HCG protocol starting two or three days after your last shot and start the clomid the day following the final HCG shot.
Many have found that the inclusion of an AI, as I mentioned above, helps with recovery.
The HCG protocol you outline here is one of the common ones. Two more were outlined in your other thread. My own preference is 1000 IU EOD for six shots. With the dose of Test you've been running, you could run the ten-day HCG protocol starting two or three days after your last shot and start the clomid the day following the final HCG shot.
Many have found that the inclusion of an AI, as I mentioned above, helps with recovery.
JKurz1
Banned
EQ same stage...almost gone.....so, what is crossing over the limits...can I go 20-25 weeks with such a mild dose then hcg and clomid etc and recover hopefully? I know some go 6 months, but thats crazy for me.....would like to get through the winter if possible, but I'll do what you reccomend.....I could bump it up to 500mg in a few weeks go for 10-12 at that rate and then a solid pct.....bad idea? Honest opinions......
silver_shadow
New member
i believe 25 weeks is pretty close to 6 mths?JKurz1 said:
whether you're on low dose/HRT/high dose, the more time on = greater shutdown. time is the important variable not dosage. as i said, you are approaching a stage where you'll have to take an important decision: HRT for the rest of your life (with cycles whenever you want) or attempt to get back to normal.
blut wump
New member
12 weeks is the limit beyond which everything is dormant. The more time you spend on beyond that then the greater the overall atrophy and the harder it will be to recover.
At this stage, I think that you should come off and not consider a new cycle prior to next April or May.
At this stage, I think that you should come off and not consider a new cycle prior to next April or May.
blut wump
New member
If this sounds overly cautious, take a read through the stories in the PCT forum. No offence intended to Dr. Jk but I just noticed yet another casualty of a long cycle on page one of this forum:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=516425
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=516425
JKurz1
Banned
I started mid-aug...mid december will be 4 mnths.....and that would be a final 8-10 weeks of 500mg test.......then a proper pct.....is this incredible dumb, if so, tell me and I wont go.....just would LOVE to get through the winter months and my test is low already.....2 yrs ago i was put on 5mg of androgel for 6 months and my doc never did anything to ween me off.....so I could be screwed anyways.....tell me what you think.....
silver_shadow
New member
go off, do a proper PCT, get your blood work done. if things are ok, resume life normally cycling smartly whenever needed. if things aren't ok i think you might have to go down the HRT route - get a good doc for HRTJKurz1 said:
THE GOOD SUN
New member
wow!
excellent thread ...some of the best thought out and soundest advice i've heard
excellent thread ...some of the best thought out and soundest advice i've heard
blut wump
New member
JK, you're going to do whatever you decide and I'm sure that if this gets bumped enough then eventually someone will say that 18-month cycles are a breeze to recover from with a few egg yolks and olive oil.
Simply put, the longer you leave coming off then the harder it will be to recover from and you've already passed the caution deadline. If you're lucky and fully healthy then you'll recover comfortably given time but your history suggests that you're not going to find recovery a breeze, even now.
The longer you leave coming off then the more aggressive your protocol is likely to need to be to have any hope of restoring normal function and the more likely that you'll need experienced medical advice to do it.
Simply put, the longer you leave coming off then the harder it will be to recover from and you've already passed the caution deadline. If you're lucky and fully healthy then you'll recover comfortably given time but your history suggests that you're not going to find recovery a breeze, even now.
The longer you leave coming off then the more aggressive your protocol is likely to need to be to have any hope of restoring normal function and the more likely that you'll need experienced medical advice to do it.
JKurz1
Banned
Week 1 (is this the week after my last 125mg test shot?)
1,000 IUs HCG 3x/wk (mon/wed/fri) (all I have is 5,000mg total!)
with 20mg of nolva every day
2nd week
continue with nolva
add in 50mg clomid for another 4 weeks
is this accurate?
can I add in clen?
will a very low dose of anavar keep me supressed?
what about igf-1 does this defeat the purpose of pct?
1,000 IUs HCG 3x/wk (mon/wed/fri) (all I have is 5,000mg total!)
with 20mg of nolva every day
2nd week
continue with nolva
add in 50mg clomid for another 4 weeks
is this accurate?
can I add in clen?
will a very low dose of anavar keep me supressed?
what about igf-1 does this defeat the purpose of pct?
JKurz1
Banned
Hc Clom Adex Nolv
1 500 0.5
2 500 0.5
3 500 0.5
4 500 0.5
5 500 0.5
6 500 0.5
7 500 0.5
8 500 0.5
9 500 0.5
10 500 0.5
11 100 0.5 10
12 100 0.5 10
13 100 0.5 10
14 100 0.5 10
15 100 0.5 10
16 100 0.5 10
17 100 0.5 10
18 100 0.5 10
19 100 0.5 10
20 100 0.5 10
21 100 0.5 10
22 100 0.5 10
23 100 0.5 10
24 100 0.5 10
25 50 0.5 10
26 50 0.5 10
27 50 0.5 10
28 50 0.5 10
29 50 0.5 10
30 50 0.5 10
1 500 0.5
2 500 0.5
3 500 0.5
4 500 0.5
5 500 0.5
6 500 0.5
7 500 0.5
8 500 0.5
9 500 0.5
10 500 0.5
11 100 0.5 10
12 100 0.5 10
13 100 0.5 10
14 100 0.5 10
15 100 0.5 10
16 100 0.5 10
17 100 0.5 10
18 100 0.5 10
19 100 0.5 10
20 100 0.5 10
21 100 0.5 10
22 100 0.5 10
23 100 0.5 10
24 100 0.5 10
25 50 0.5 10
26 50 0.5 10
27 50 0.5 10
28 50 0.5 10
29 50 0.5 10
30 50 0.5 10
blut wump
New member
I already gave you my thoughts in the PM. You might not like your clomid schedule and I already mentioned that the nolvadex should begin with the HCG and that your AI should continue for a further couple of weeks past the three or four weeks of clomid. You might prefer 20 of nolva to the 10 you have above.
Bear in mind that the amount stated on your packet might be the amount of tamoxifen citrate rather than the amount of tamoxifen. If the amount given is the amount of citrate then multiply by about two-thirds to get the amount of tamoxifen you'll be getting from the dose.
If the four weeks off you refer to is the above 30 days then definitely not. As we discussed months ago in your closed thread, the point of PCT is to get your HPGA functional again. This takes time beyond your PCT and should ideally be accompanied by a blood test to see whether your T levels are back within normal ranges. Best guidelines suggest that you should take a further four months beyond your PCT before diving back on again.
If you really don't care about recovery then there are few real guidelines.
As I also mentioned earlier, when you're coming off you absolutely must cut back on the exercise. This is a very poor time to be playing with overtraining.
You seem to be a train-wreck destined to happen. I just can't watch any more and I'm unsubscribing from your threads.
Bear in mind that the amount stated on your packet might be the amount of tamoxifen citrate rather than the amount of tamoxifen. If the amount given is the amount of citrate then multiply by about two-thirds to get the amount of tamoxifen you'll be getting from the dose.
If the four weeks off you refer to is the above 30 days then definitely not. As we discussed months ago in your closed thread, the point of PCT is to get your HPGA functional again. This takes time beyond your PCT and should ideally be accompanied by a blood test to see whether your T levels are back within normal ranges. Best guidelines suggest that you should take a further four months beyond your PCT before diving back on again.
If you really don't care about recovery then there are few real guidelines.
As I also mentioned earlier, when you're coming off you absolutely must cut back on the exercise. This is a very poor time to be playing with overtraining.
You seem to be a train-wreck destined to happen. I just can't watch any more and I'm unsubscribing from your threads.
JKurz1
Banned
EASSYY bruha.....I hear ya and Iw ant top recover. SO, I'll bump the nolva to day one with HCG. I can take the HCG intrmuscular correct? Insulin needles make me cringe. Is it enough HCG and why will I not like the clomid? Feeling? Does it look good aside from that? I'll take off as long as I need to....just posing a ? I'll start again maybe in the spring.
Last 100mg will be in a few weeks. Looks like 18 weeks in total but I have been takking aimf and armidex throughout so maybe ill recover quicker?
Some say no shut down at all..........what are your theories on igf and clen?
Last 100mg will be in a few weeks. Looks like 18 weeks in total but I have been takking aimf and armidex throughout so maybe ill recover quicker?
Some say no shut down at all..........what are your theories on igf and clen?
