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goku_kakarot77
New member
pwo im going with whey 50g maximaze 100g, bcaa,leucine,cee, is that ok immediately after wo, but i hear some take maximize with bcaa straight after them 15min later whey? is my style ok?
pwo shake timing
- Thread starter goku_kakarot77
- Start date
cobracock1979
Member
I take it all together , but the most effective way should be 2nd option to build the biggest insulin spike
bump to above but it doesnt really make that much of difference as long as youre getting it in during your anabolic window
I take 80g waxy, 10g BCAA, 5g Leucine, and 5g creatine mono immediately PWO. I then wait 15-20 minutes and slam 60g Whey Iso. This has been the best PWO combo for me so far. I have tried a lot.
K to SL 
goku_kakarot77
New member
bump
After doing some more reading on PWO protocols I have decided to make some changes to this. I am going to bump everything up so 100-120g Waxy, 20g BCAA, 10g Leucine,and 10g Creatine. I am also gonna add 1-2 TBSP of GLYCEROL and a pinch of sea salt to this shake as well. I will drink half before and the other PWO. The Glycerol + sea salt will cause super hydration and force more nutrients into your muscles not to mention the crazy ass pump. I think this combo will really help you to fill out, especially on refeed days.
my friend is a nutritionist. he did his undergrad and masters in it. dude knows all the tricks to bbing nutrition and is ridiculously jacked and shredded. he said the high pwo carb intake is not necessary. it actually causes spillover. his pwo meal looks nothing like anyone here would even fathom. it includes cottage cheese, whey, efas, almonds, and he varies the carb but it never comes to more than 40grams and its never a simple carb. youre wasting alot of money taking that much wms. it doesnt make the slightest difference in muscle gains, but it will keep fat on the body.
A
ALIN
Guest
I take my waximaize first then wait 15-20minutes for my whey isolate
i think that the amount of carbs post wo are all in relation to your goals. someone in the offseason trying to gain size would take in 50 to 100 grams of carbs no problem. someone trying to stay ripped and lean say during pre conteset would obviously take in much less than that
Makavelli
New member
Not eating carbs will keep someone lean. However if one is trying to gain muscle and lose fat, eating high GI carbs, like dextrose, along with a low GI, like oatmeal, will do the trick. Yes most overdo it. I stick to around 60 grams of total carbs pwo. Some need more, some less, but I always have my clients do it.
i used to do the same. its very complex the whole thing, much more so than ive ever seen when explained online. his views/diet are extremely different and he is actually able to continually gain mass while staying very lean, and his cycles are like swoles, no more than 500mg total, no more than 16 weeks a year, and never tren. his views on the high gi combined with low gi carb pwo are completely opposite of everything i have seen - the role of each carb is so affected by the other that it almost cancels out everything. its actually hard to accept after reading everything online.
i get confused when he tries and explain it but this is the guy putting cinnamon on stuff to blunt insulin release. the disagreements and arguments he would get online would be out of control. i dont understand all the mechanisms of action so for me to do it is impossible. the foods and combos are really polar opposite of what i have read for years.
Makavelli
New member
I've pretty much tried everything over the last 18 years. I know what works for me and for the majority of people. I've worked with hundred of athletes from all different sports. If it works for what he wants to do that's cool. I've always said I can't argue with results. It's important to live in the real world. A lot "Net Gurus" live in the "research world", never taking into account the years of people that have been in the trenches of gyms all over the world. In science nothing is absolute.
it was really eye opening at first. the stuff online is like the beginner level information. its like you said, you find what works. totally different viewpoint though. most people would flat out disagree because its opposite of what weve been spoon fed by the net people. i like listening to the reasoning behind it but i couldnt reproduce it, i dont have the understanding.
Makavelli
New member
The "stuff" online is just that. It's mostly stuff that people heard from the net. Most of it is wrong or they completely messed it up when they pass it on to others. Most of the people that I help always start their emails with "I read on the internet...". I stop them right there and say "why do you think what's on the internet is true? Anyone can write or say anything. Being on the internet does not translate to validity".
im sure you remember that guy swolecat, his no fats and carbs only pro/carb, pro/fat. i started talking about this with him a few years ago and he laughed his ass off. i can sum up what he said, do you really think the body is that simple and digestion happens so black and white? he then went off on the science end and i was again lost. a kid ive been training since 6th grade is now in college and decided to major in nutrition. he said it should be easy and he could make money. i told him to think again, nutrition is in depth and hardcore. its chemistry for the body. nothing simple and cut and dry about it.
timtim, what is your PWO nutrition protocols?
ive change them often. i just moved from a whole food pwo: 2 slices white bread, tuna no mayo, almonds. the white bread is crap for me. after 4 weeks i will not go back to that. i did like the tuna and almonds though. i felt very full muscle wise. after my current protocol i am going to try lean red meat and white potato.
i dont go over 50 grams carbs ever though.
currently (just started):
1 scoop whey
1 scoop casein
1/2 cup oats
5 grams fish oil
i have done the dex/whey - caused slight bloating and i could feel my blood sugar levels bottom out. i did the dex/oats/whey, dex/oats/whey/casein. the oats helped with my blood sugar levels but the combinations yielded similar results for me. wms i am not sold on at all. alot of internet hype on that. ive done research on it, too conflicting.
definately do what works for you. im just trying to see what different combos do.
For a while I had no carbs PWO. I was on the Anabolic Diet for close to a year and I did not eat over 30g of carbs a day with the exception of a weekly refeed. I would use only BCAA, Glutamine and creatine PWO. I have also used whole food PWO. So far the Waxy followed by whey has been the best for me. Zero bloat when the waxy is mixed with the proper amount of water, no crash, and recovery is great.
I have been doing a lot of research on different diets lately and I have been in the experimentation mood. I am seriously considering going back on a high protein, high fat, near zero carb diet, but allowing PWO carbs(waxy)and doing a refeed every 10 days. I was in the best condition of my life when on the AD and it was easy to stay lean and add considerable amounts of LBM.
im very similar. i dont do well with high levels of carbs. i carb cycle and have had great success. i have been focusing on trying to balance my omega ratios. i have fish oil for 3, safflower oil for 6, and olive oil/almonds for 9. doing very well with it. its all about trying new things and finding what works best for you. i am avoiding the high gi carbs as much as possible, i dont think sharp insulin spikes are healthy or necessary.
Makavelli
New member
Yeah, nutrition for me is more interesting than AAS. It's more complex too. Lots of variables to play with.
justchilling212
New member
for best results you should take the protein and bcaa seperatley , due to absorbstion factors. I take the bcaa before work out and protein after.
desmond
New member
If you consume ample carbs pre-workout, why do you need high GI carbs post workout?
E.g., suppose I consume I cup of oats; 2 glasses of milk; 30 grams of protein powder within 1 hour of working out. That's 60P; 80 low GI carbs.
presumably that is still going through my system when the workout finishes, so why would I need high GI carbs?
Just asking (currently I'm trying WMS)
E.g., suppose I consume I cup of oats; 2 glasses of milk; 30 grams of protein powder within 1 hour of working out. That's 60P; 80 low GI carbs.
presumably that is still going through my system when the workout finishes, so why would I need high GI carbs?
Just asking (currently I'm trying WMS)
cobracock1979
Member
bacause the oats is low GI and will only create a minimal insulin spike over a prolonged period. WM creates a massive spike very quickly
The theory behind the PWO high GI carb is th einsulin spike. Insulin is extremely anabolilc and shuttles nutrientes into your muscle cells far beyond any other thing.
Creating an insulin spike, followed by protein, theoretically provides the most instantaneous supply of anabolic nutrients to your muscle cells for immediate repair.
I usually go 45 grams WM followed after 10 minutes by 40 grams of protein, which is followed 20 minutes after by 1/2 cup of oatmeal(for sustained carb release 1/2 cup is about 30grams carbs, and 5g fiber).
30 minutes after this process(1 hour PWO), I have my dinner. Usually chicken, tureky or beef 10 oz or so, with green veggies and fruit, and a glass of milk (16oz).
I have been diong this for a while now, and it has been great for me. I am making great progress.
side note: Does anybody else have to piss like evry 15 minutes for the next couple hours PWO? freaking annoying.
Creating an insulin spike, followed by protein, theoretically provides the most instantaneous supply of anabolic nutrients to your muscle cells for immediate repair.
I usually go 45 grams WM followed after 10 minutes by 40 grams of protein, which is followed 20 minutes after by 1/2 cup of oatmeal(for sustained carb release 1/2 cup is about 30grams carbs, and 5g fiber).
30 minutes after this process(1 hour PWO), I have my dinner. Usually chicken, tureky or beef 10 oz or so, with green veggies and fruit, and a glass of milk (16oz).
I have been diong this for a while now, and it has been great for me. I am making great progress.
side note: Does anybody else have to piss like evry 15 minutes for the next couple hours PWO? freaking annoying.
+1
and yes I piss like crazy during and after my workouts. I do consume close to a gallon of fluids between pre/post work shakes and all the water while training.
cobracock1979
Member
souther - whats the anabolic diet? I have been on a carb cycle before and a CKD...is it similar?
Makavelli
New member
Bodyopus is better than the anabolic diet. It's more precise although I altered BO even more.
bodyopus was alittle ridiculous. the liquid carbs on the refeed would fly out the anus like grease through a funnel.
Do you care to share your alterations to the BO/UD? I would be very interested in seeing this. I am following a similar approach to dieting right now, but geared ultimately to LBM gain over fat loss.
Makavelli
New member
Yeah, but I altered it with good results.
Makavelli
New member
I've written a lot about this here. Just search the diet or my name. If you have a specific q let me know. Not tryin to be lazy, but it's a lot of info.
