Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below Given unlimited money and ignoring side effects is there any reason to believe that stacking offers advantages over taking an equivalent dosage of just a single potent compound, e.g. 1 gram of 1-testosterone vs 500grams of 1-t and 500 grams of 4-ad? Or in the steroid analogy 1 gram of dianabol versus a combined 1 gram of dianabol/deca?
Prohormone/steroid Q
- Thread starter ReggieJ
- Start date
ReggieJ said:
If you are looking for mass, a mix of 1-test and 4-AD would be preferred because the 4-AD brings with it some well-needed estrogen. If you are looking for lean muscularity on the other hand, I'd go with 1-Test alone.
- Bill Llewellyn
Re: Re: Re: Prohormone/steroid Q
Yes, of course. Just as test is better than androstenediol..That is not to say they are worlds apart though; the feedback on both compounds is typically very good. I assume that 1-AD has some measureable intrinsic activity. Just not as much as 1-Test of course.
- Bill Llewellyn
bpdaddy said:
Would you say then 1-test is better than 1-AD in your opinion? I know PA's take on it
Yes, of course. Just as test is better than androstenediol..That is not to say they are worlds apart though; the feedback on both compounds is typically very good. I assume that 1-AD has some measureable intrinsic activity. Just not as much as 1-Test of course.
- Bill Llewellyn
triggerfinger
New member
ReggieJ said:
Reggie do you mean :
1 gram( 1000 mg) of 1-test vs 500 mg of 1-test + 500 mg of 4ad
triggerfinger
New member
for Par
Just started using one+ and have been taking about 400 mg of 4 and 200 mg 5 AD with 1000mg of 19 nor before i started the one+( for 2 weeks). I plan to drop the 19 nor.
I know the one+ has 4 ad is there any benifit or detriment to continue to take the oral 4ad,5ad combo.
I bought it sooo I have it.
In addition may it be a good idea to start post cycle with 1 week of only 4AD. My thought was to help with the libedo
Just started using one+ and have been taking about 400 mg of 4 and 200 mg 5 AD with 1000mg of 19 nor before i started the one+( for 2 weeks). I plan to drop the 19 nor.
I know the one+ has 4 ad is there any benifit or detriment to continue to take the oral 4ad,5ad combo.
I bought it sooo I have it.
In addition may it be a good idea to start post cycle with 1 week of only 4AD. My thought was to help with the libedo
Re: for Par
The 5-AD will add some estrogen, which will have numerous benefits on muscle growth. The 4-AD won't add anything that the ONE+ is not already doing, simply because the max effective dose of 4-AD is included (assuming you are using the high dosing).
triggerfinger said:
The 5-AD will add some estrogen, which will have numerous benefits on muscle growth. The 4-AD won't add anything that the ONE+ is not already doing, simply because the max effective dose of 4-AD is included (assuming you are using the high dosing).
ReggieJ said:
Was wondering when you would notice that -- sorry for fucking with you
Anyway, I don't think the 500 + 500 would be more effective, just because 1-test is so much stronger than 4-AD, but there is an advantage to adding 4-AD to 1-test, namely it will provide some estrogen. So, if you went 800mg 1-test and 1800mg 4-AD (which would cost the same as 1000mg of 1-test), it would be superior for adding muscle.
Also, want to note that those are just example dosages, not recommendations.
Thanks for replying Par. Shit, what would 1000 grams of roids per day do I wonder??
Anyway, I have one more question. Pat Arnold has said on another board that he uses oral 1-AD because it was superior to the trnasdermal. Yet everyone on this board seems to think transdermals are better. Can you definitely state transdermal 1-t is better than oral 1-t? Pat's exact words were,
"drugs that are broken down alot in the liver tend to have better
bioavailability transdermally. Drugs that are not broken down as much
in the liver OTOH have better bioavailability by the oral route. this
is because absorption is low through the skin but high in the GI tract.
First pass liver destruction therefore is the key here. Apparently it
is not as high with 1-AD as with other prohormones ".
I can't say I'm keen at all on a transdermal because I have sensitive skin. Is there any other solution for a higher rate of bioavailability, e.g. nasal or rectal? Cheers dude.
Anyway, I have one more question. Pat Arnold has said on another board that he uses oral 1-AD because it was superior to the trnasdermal. Yet everyone on this board seems to think transdermals are better. Can you definitely state transdermal 1-t is better than oral 1-t? Pat's exact words were,
"drugs that are broken down alot in the liver tend to have better
bioavailability transdermally. Drugs that are not broken down as much
in the liver OTOH have better bioavailability by the oral route. this
is because absorption is low through the skin but high in the GI tract.
First pass liver destruction therefore is the key here. Apparently it
is not as high with 1-AD as with other prohormones ".
I can't say I'm keen at all on a transdermal because I have sensitive skin. Is there any other solution for a higher rate of bioavailability, e.g. nasal or rectal? Cheers dude.
triggerfinger
New member
rectal - are you kiddin me!!
Yo bro I don't even wanna think about putting anything up my ass.
I think this trandermal one+ is unbelievable. Yeah it burns a little. I shave my arms and when I apply the one+ they go on fire, get real red and blotchy but it goes away, and after my cycle it will go away for good, and.............when I am done I will mostly likly add 10 pounds of lean mass,sooooooooo I think its worth it
ReggieJ said:Thanks for replying Par. Shit, what would 1000 grams of roids per day do I wonder??
Anyway, I have one more question. Pat Arnold has said on another board that he uses oral 1-AD because it was superior to the trnasdermal. Yet everyone on this board seems to think transdermals are better. Can you definitely state transdermal 1-t is better than oral 1-t? Pat's exact words were,
"drugs that are broken down alot in the liver tend to have better
bioavailability transdermally. Drugs that are not broken down as much
in the liver OTOH have better bioavailability by the oral route. this
is because absorption is low through the skin but high in the GI tract.
First pass liver destruction therefore is the key here. Apparently it
is not as high with 1-AD as with other prohormones ".
I can't say I'm keen at all on a transdermal because I have sensitive skin. Is there any other solution for a higher rate of bioavailability, e.g. nasal or rectal? Cheers dude.
Yo bro I don't even wanna think about putting anything up my ass.
I think this trandermal one+ is unbelievable. Yeah it burns a little. I shave my arms and when I apply the one+ they go on fire, get real red and blotchy but it goes away, and after my cycle it will go away for good, and.............when I am done I will mostly likly add 10 pounds of lean mass,sooooooooo I think its worth it
ReggieJ said:Thanks for replying Par. Shit, what would 1000 grams of roids per day do I wonder??
Anyway, I have one more question. Pat Arnold has said on another board that he uses oral 1-AD because it was superior to the trnasdermal. Yet everyone on this board seems to think transdermals are better. Can you definitely state transdermal 1-t is better than oral 1-t? Pat's exact words were,
"drugs that are broken down alot in the liver tend to have better
bioavailability transdermally. Drugs that are not broken down as much
in the liver OTOH have better bioavailability by the oral route. this
is because absorption is low through the skin but high in the GI tract.
First pass liver destruction therefore is the key here. Apparently it
is not as high with 1-AD as with other prohormones ".
I can't say I'm keen at all on a transdermal because I have sensitive skin. Is there any other solution for a higher rate of bioavailability, e.g. nasal or rectal? Cheers dude.
A good example of what i said would be dianabol. What do you think works better, oral dianabol or transdermal dianabol? Oral of course. That is because dianabol is resistant enough to liver degradation that enough will get through to make oral superior to transdermal delivery (which is greatly limited by a low permeation capacity)
I do not think that 1-AD/1-test is as resistant to first pass as dianabol, however I think it is enough so to make the oral route superior. My findings comparing 1-AD caps to a prototype topical 1-AD formula clearly demonstrated this to me.
I don't really know how to reconcile the opinions of Pat and Par. Are strength gains also drastically greater in transdermal users in your opinion mg for mg? If not, could the transdermals be causing a water retaining effect leading to the illusion of higher gains than the orals?
ReggieJ said:
1) We use different transdermal formulas.
2) He is speaking in reference to 1-AD, am am talking about 1-test. I know they had differing rates of urinary excretion of 17beta-hydroxyl steroids -- also, pretty sure that some of 1-AD is metabolized to 1-test in the liver -- even when 1-test is metabolized to other 17beta-hydroxyl steroids, they probably are not as potent as 1-test itself was, so perhaps 1-AD has some advantages over 1-test as far as oral delivery is concerned.
Thus, the differing opinions do not necessarily need to be reconciled.
I will say this from a retailer standpoint. I've sold a buttload of 1-AD. I sold a buttload of sauce when it came out (due to fact wholesaler was out of 1-AD). I've had many comments to the fact of "sauce didn't work as well as 1-AD". That or they mention the gains that got and they just don't add up to what it should when compared to 1-AD. If you want oral go with 1-AD, if you want 1-test transdermally Par's product has worked great for my customers.
So the consensus of opinion is transdermal 1-test>oral 1-ad>oral 1-test. Does 1-AD break down into anything other than 1-test, perhaps explaining its better results vs oral 1-test.
To Par - I definitely won't take a transdermal 1-t product but am intrigued by your topical yohimbine product. Do you know if taking it would have any CNS/systemic thermogenic effect similar to ECA?
To Par - I definitely won't take a transdermal 1-t product but am intrigued by your topical yohimbine product. Do you know if taking it would have any CNS/systemic thermogenic effect similar to ECA?
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