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Progesterone - Not Another Gyno Thread

S

steeledan

New member
After all the discussion about fina gyno, I started doing some research. After reading more about progesterone, I'm starting to think it may be a good thing:

1. It's been shown to be some kind anti-e - it down regulates the estrogen receptor
2. It also lowers test->dht conversion - good for the prostate
3. It increases muscle gains w/ weight training
4, It's cheap - Synovex S + kit = ~20g progesterone for 170

HRT is 8-10mg/day transversally for aging men – 20 grams would last quite a while
Some report estrogen-like affects from deca. Anyone know the actual mechanism - is it activating the progesterone receptor, blocking the progesterone receptor, or converting to estrogen? If it is blocking the receptor, it would make a person much more sensitive to estrogen, no?

http://www.meso-rx.com/articles/ullis/contrarian-endocrinology-02.htm
http://www.life-flo.com/prostatecancer.html
http://www.medlean.com/ML_prohormonesfaq.html#Q: Isn’t progesterone a female hormone also?
http://dreckhart.hypermart.net/drlee.htm
http://members.aol.com/profchm/rahman.html
http://www.freeworldalliance.com/medicalmafia/prostate.htm
http://users2.ev1.net/~yasso/gear/FAQ/duchaine.html
http://www.animalkits.be/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=970&forum=1

Anybody else think I might be on to something?
 
Are you labeling tren as a progestin because of one obscure study that noted TA's binding the the bovine uterus? Or do you have some other info that would be useful here? :) thanks,

jb



macrophage69alpha said:
Deca
Drol
tren
are
PROGESTINS


not

PROGESTERONE
Click to expand...
 
jboldman said:
Are you labeling tren as a progestin because of one obscure study that noted TA's binding the the bovine uterus? Or do you have some other info that would be useful here? :) thanks,

jb
Click to expand...

While there is only specific study, many other studies imply the same.

and binding to the PR is binding to the PR. Isoforms of the PR vary, which is why some experience Progestin effects more than others.

would say that from its "effects" that it is a mixed agonist/ antagonist of the PR.. though agree that further studies would bring more certainty..

APMIS 2000 Dec;108(12):838-46 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut


Characterisation of the affinity of different anabolics and synthetic hormones to the human androgen receptor, human sex hormone binding globulin and to the bovine progestin receptor.

Bauer ER, Daxenberger A, Petri T, Sauerwein H, Meyer HH.

Institut fur Physiologie, Research Center for Milk and Food Weihenstephan, Technical University Munich, Germany.

For the steroidal growth promoters trenbolone acetate (TBA) and melengestrol acetate (MGA) neither the complete spectrum of biological activities nor the potential endocrine disrupting activity of their excreted metabolites in the environment is fully understood. The potency of these substances in [3H]dihydrotestosterone ([3H]-DHT) displacement from the recombinant human androgen receptor (rhAR) and from human sex-hormone binding globulin (hSHBG) was evaluated. In addition, the potency for [3H]-ORG2058 displacement from the bovine uterine progestin receptor (bPR) was tested. For comparison, different anabolics and synthetic hormones were also tested for their binding affinities. For 17beta-trenbolone (17beta-TbOH), the active compound after TBA administration, an affinity the rhAR similar to dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and a slightly higher affinity to the bPR than progesterone were demonstrated. The affinity of the two major metabolites, 17alpha-trenbolone and trendione, was reduced to less than 5% of the 17beta-TbOH-value. The affinity of these three compounds and of MGA to the hSHBG was much lower compared with DHT. MGA showed a 5.3-fold higher affinity than progesterone to the bPR but only a weak affinity to the rhAR. The major MGA metabolites have an affinity to the bPR between 85% and 28% of the affinity of progesterone. In consequence, MGA and TBA metabolites may be hormonally active substances, which will be present in edible tissues and in manure. We conclude that detailed investigations on biodegradation, distribution and bio-efficacy of these substances are necessary.



THIS STUDY IMPLYS THAT TREN SUPPRESSES PROGESTERONE PRODUCTION THRPUGH A MECHANISM OTHER THAN SUPPRESSION OF LH.



Vet Rec 1987 Apr 25;120(17):413-6 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut


Effect of trenbolone acetate on ovarian function in culled dairy cows.

Peters AR.

The ovarian cycles of 48 culled dairy cows were monitored by assaying plasma progesterone concentrations. Twenty-four cows received a subcutaneous implant of 300 mg trenbolone acetate (Finaplix; Hoechst) at the beginning of the study. Of the implanted cows, two were pregnant, six continued to cycle although their peak progesterone concentrations were significantly lower than in control cows (5.65 +/- 0.71 compared with 8.19 +/- 0.47 ng/ml; P less than 0.01). Prolonged periods (13 to 92 days) of low progesterone concentrations (less than 1 ng/ml) occurred in 12 of the implanted cows. In six of seven cows in which normal cycles had not resumed by the time of slaughter two to five ovarian follicles of diameter greater than or equal to 10 mm were found post mortem. Persistent luteal function (greater than 35 days) occurred in the absence of pregnancy or gross uterine pathology in five of the implanted cows, two of which had recovered spontaneously by the time they were slaughtered. There was no difference in plasma luteinising hormone concentrations between the implanted and control cows. It is concluded that trenbolone acetate affected the ovarian cycle of the cows in several ways through changes other than the modification of tonic luteinising hormone secretion.

IT MAY ALSO BE THROUGH THE SUPPRESSION OF NATURAL PROGESTERONE PRODUCTION, PERHAPS IN COMBINATION WITH ITS OWN PR BINDING, THAT TREN "CAUSES" GYNO.
 
jboldman said:
Are you labeling tren as a progestin because of one obscure study that noted TA's binding the the bovine uterus? Or do you have some other info that would be useful here? :) thanks,

jb
Click to expand...

Webster Definition for "obscure"
1. ob.scure \a:b-'skyu.(*)r, *b-\ aj [ME, fr. MF obscur, fr. L obscurus, fr. ob- in the way + -]scurus (akin to Gk keuthein to conceal) - more at HIDE 1: lacking or inadequately supplied with light : DARK, DUSKY 2a: withdrawn from the centers of human activity : REMOTE {~ country village} 2b: not readily understood or not clearly expressed : ABSTRUSE 2c: lacking showiness or prominence : INCONSPICUOUS, HUMBLE {an ~ Roman poet} 2d: not distinct : FAINT 3: constituting the unstressed vowel 8 or having unstressed 8 as its valuM, AMBIGUOUS, EQUIVOCAL mean not clearly understandable. OBSCURE implies a hiding or veiling of meaning through some defect of full knowledge; DARK implies an imperfect or clouded revelation often with ominous or sinister suggestion; VAGUE implies a lack of clear formulation because imperfectly conceived or thought out; ENIGMATIC stresses a puzzling, mystifying quality; CRYPTIC implies a purposely concealed meaning; AMBIGUOUS and EQUIVOCAL both imply the use of the same word in different senses, AMBIGUOUS usu. suggesting inadvertence and EQUIVOCAL an attempt to confuse or evade - ob.scure.ly av SYN syn OBSCURE, DARK, VAGUE, ENIGMATIC, CRYPTIC)

Jboldman, just out of the curiousity, why do you think, that study is obscure?
 
Lol. This thread went exactly where I didn't want it to go. But I do agree with macro - the listed roids act as progestins and block progesterone causing the user to become more sesitive to estrogen. There's also the prolactin problem with tren, but that's a whole different story - http://209.11.101.244/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=127390&perpage=20&pagenumber=6

I posted this thread to find out if progesterone would be a good thing to add to a cycle. If it is, it would be a lot cheaper than aridimex/femera combined with proscar. And it may even increase gains :) I'm beginning to think the only way to find the answer is to be a guinea pig. Are there any bad sides to progesterone (not progestins)? From what I've read, it doesn't have any, but most of the info was for women...
 
Just had a brain fart:

Deca, drol, and other progestins cause bloating in many users because they block progesterone.
If tren is a progestin and works the same way, wouldn't it cause bloat too? I've never heard of anyone bloating from tren alone.
 
My last cycle was:
100mg test susp in oil (converted synovex-h)
75mg tren (component th)
50mg winny
0.5mg ari
1g ala
1.5g vitex
The dosages are ed and it was 6 weeks long. Put on a good 35 lbs.

Next Cycle?
100mg test susp in oil (converted synovex-h)
75mg tren (component th)
100mg progesterone (converted synovex-s)
3g ala
200mg IM l-carnitine
1g IM b-12
1 x-large fina t-shirt

I have left over vitex/ari/winny on hand. If the progesterone doesn't work as expected, it has a short half life and should be completely out in 4-5 days. Any opinions?
 
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