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Prison statistics

M

MattTheSkywalker

Elite Mentor
Platinum
With the recent news that over 3% of US adults are under some kind of supervision by a correctional agency (incarcerated, on probation or on parole) I thought I would post a link to the dept of justice's own stats.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/


I believe we are first in the world for incarcerating our population. Ahead of Iran, Saudi, Iraq, etc. Any comments?
 
In a many contires, sich as in the Middle East they punish more brutally than prison ie cutting off hand or caning, and have more crimes which are punishable by death. Most people in prison are there for political reasons.
 
One of several reasons..... IMO

Either:

we have more crime than the rest of the world
we have more Laws than the rest of the world
we have better-technically police than the rest
we convict more of those caught breaking the law

Not sure which or maybe a combo of all the above.
 
If we were to take out the Drug usage arrests, I would be interested in knowing how much that would impact the stats matt
 
Y_Lifter said:
One of several reasons..... IMO

Either:

we have more crime than the rest of the world
we have more Laws than the rest of the world
we have better-technically police than the rest
we convict more of those caught breaking the law

Not sure which or maybe a combo of all the above.
Click to expand...


How about, we just hate scum walking the streets!


LOL@ HS
 
Y_Lifter said:
One of several reasons..... IMO

Either:

we have more crime than the rest of the world
we have more Laws than the rest of the world
we have better-technically police than the rest
we convict more of those caught breaking the law

Not sure which or maybe a combo of all the above.
Click to expand...

I think you are looking at snmaller issues while sidestepping the really big one:

1. Aggressive policing of impoverisihed areas, typically the people who cannot afford legal services and are at the mercy of the system, leads to a disproportionate incarceration of poor people.

In other words, we are jailing our way out of the poverty problem.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:
I believe we are first in the world for incarcerating our population. Ahead of Iran, Saudi, Iraq, etc. Any comments?
Click to expand...

What does that have to do with the cost of rye bread at the grocery store?

We live in a multiple class society, not a two class society like your typical arab nation. Crimes driven by economics or social stature are more varying, as we are a more diverse society. Wants and needs in free societies are managed by motivation, not by the whims of a monarchy. Also, our rules, laws and punishments are based on english comon law, not the Koran which is a modified form of the bible. In the US, the govt does not force the people to follow religious orders. I have not done a study, but Im sure strictly religious people commit less crimes against their society than non religious people. Hence less incarceration as a percentage of the total population.. Interesting topic.
 
Re: Re: Prison statistics

Steroid_Virgin said:


What does that have to do with the cost of rye bread at the grocery store?

We live in a multiple class society, not a two class society like your typical arab nation. Crimes driven by economics or social stature are more varying, as we are a more diverse society. Wants and needs in free societies are managed by motivation, not by the whims of a monarchy. Also, our rules, laws and punishments are based on english comon law, not the Koran which is a modified form of the bible. In the US, the govt does not force the people to follow religious orders. I have not done a study, but Im sure strictly religious people commit less crimes against their society than non religious people. Hence less incarceration as a percentage of the total population.. Interesting topic.
Click to expand...

Let's talk about the United States. What is it in your thoughtprocess that imediately teaches you to look outside the US to justify what we do internally?

why is the United States first in punishing its citizens, yet we call ourselveas the "land of the free"?
 
MattTheSkywalker said:
In other words, we are jailing our way out of the poverty problem.
Click to expand...

That doesn't even make financial sence Matt, Im sure it costs more money to put some one in prison, than it does to give them straight cash handouts.

Now, if you were talking about the mentally ill, or idigent (sp?) population I would tend to agree..

But the answer is no.. I dont think we are are intentionally or unintentionally replacing prison with welfare...
 
Re: Re: Re: Prison statistics

MattTheSkywalker said:


Let's talk about the United States. What is it in your thoughtprocess that imediately teaches you to look outside the US to justify what we do internally?

why is the United States first in punishing its citizens, yet we call ourselveas the "land of the free"?
Click to expand...

We are the land of the free because people can choose to do almost anything want to... that doesn't preclude one from the consequences of those said free actions.. All actions have consequences, thats true in any society. In any case, I am for decriminalization of all victimless crimes.
 
Every American will be be in prison in a few decades if present increases in the rates of incarceration continue.

That will suck, I'll be old and they'll send me to jail for farting without a permit and people will cut the line on me in the chow hall and I'll be to old to do anything about it.
 
Steroid_Virgin said:


That doesn't even make financial sence Matt, Im sure it costs more money to put some one in prison, than it does to give them straight cash handouts.

Now, if you were talking about the mentally ill, or idigent (sp?) population I would tend to agree..

But the answer is no.. I dont think we are are intentionally or unintentionally replacing prison with welfare...
Click to expand...

Who is talking about handouts? Where did "financial sense" come from? welfare?

Your brain is jumping all over the palce, which is good - you're thinking at least. Now, narrow the focus to people in jail pr prison. Not handouts. Not other countries:

What I mean is, rather than contend with generations of poverty and welfare, and a shrinking middle class, society is using jail to hide the problem. Then, rather than addressing the poverty problem, people are being labeled "criminals".

Once you attach the label 'criminal' to someone, you have dehumanized them sufficiently to justify ignoring them and the problems they may face. Conveninet isn;t it?


Land of the free? go outside and smoke a cigarette on your property. No problem. Now try it with a joint....so much for freedom.
 
Besides, if you look at the site you included the link for, Violent crime, which includes murder, negligent and nonnegligent manslaughter, rape, sexual assault, robbery, assault, extortion, intimidation, criminal endangerment, and other violent offenses has accounted for most of the increase in prison population

see graph: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/corrtyp.htm

I suppose you'd like to let people like that run around free? Dont run public office.

The better question to ask is, why are we more violent than other societies?

That graph illstrates that the growth in prison population is not not driven by economics.. at least it puts a BIG X mark your primary premise (i.e. jailing our way out of poverty)
 
Interesting points Matt... I'm am sure drug convictions are a majority of that 3% as well.... another supporting point would be the fact that crack cocaine, a common poor area drug, carries a harsher sentence than cocaine, even though cocaine is a more pure form of the drug. Cocaine is used more commonly in the upper and middle classes. Crack was (is?) also arguably introduced into Los Angeles in the 80's by our loveable Central Intelligence Agency.
 
Frack, check the link, drugs are not the first but narrowly second as the highest reson for incarceration.... matter of fact, the % population of people in jail because of drugs has stayed constant over the last 12 years, while others like violent crime have increased...

check the facts
 
SV

The greatest percentage increase for state prisons was in drug-related offenses.

If you look at the precentages in state prisons, the amount of drug offenders in state prison is up over 1000%, violent offenders are up roughly 350%.

This is interesting especially because stateprisons are designed to house more violent criminals. Most jails are limited tio criminals with sentences of one year or less.
 
You hit the nail on the head Frack.... what is the cause of increasing violence?

Are cities becoming to crowded? (i.e road rage)
Are we becoming desensitized to violence? (TV, Movies)
Is it harder for people to make a decent living? (our standard of living is decreasing?)
Lack of parental guidance? (both paretns work?)

This is what I think is worth discussing... this is a major issue that we as a people must come to grips with.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:
SV

The greatest percentage increase for state prisons was in drug-related offenses.

If you look at the precentages in state prisons, the amount of drug offenders in state prison is up over 1000%, violent offenders are up roughly 350%.

This is interesting especially because stateprisons are designed to house more violent criminals. Most jails are limited tio criminals with sentences of one year or less.
Click to expand...

Ok, I agree with you, but the overwhelming majority of prison inmates are there because they commited a violent crime.. and by that same token, I dont understand how can you ascert that we are using prisons as a method to control proverty??

This is a great discussion, but I think we need to move away from the poverty issue.. and explore the violence thing.
 
A woman in my area went to jail for 30 days because her daughter skipped school. If you ask me we lock people up for dumbass reasons.

In order to lock up this truant's mother they probably let a violent bastard out.
 
Steroid_Virgin said:
Frack, check the link, drugs are not the first but narrowly second as the highest reson for incarceration.... matter of fact, the % population of people in jail because of drugs has stayed constant over the last 12 years, while others like violent crime have increased...

check the facts
Click to expand...

Check these facts.

Over 80% of the increase in the federal prison population from 1985 to 1995 was due to drug convictions.

Source: US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prisoners in 1996 (Washington DC: US Department of Justice, 1997).


"Between 1984 and 1999, the number of defendants charged with a drug offense in U.S. district courts increased about 3% annually, on average, from 11,854 to 29,306."

Source: Scalia, John, US Dept. of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Federal Drug Offenders, 1999 with Trends 1984-99 (Washington, DC: US Dept. of Justice, August 2001), p. 7.


"As a result of increased prosecutions and longer time served in prison, the number of drug offenders in Federal prisons increased more than 12% annually, on average, from 14,976 during 1986 to 68,360 during 1999."

Source: Scalia, John, US Dept. of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Federal Drug Offenders, 1999 with Trends 1984-99 (Washington, DC: US Dept. of Justice, August 2001), p. 7.
 
Doktor Bollix said:


Check these facts.

Over 80% of the increase in the federal prison population from 1985 to 1995 was due to drug convictions.

Source: US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prisoners in 1996 (Washington DC: US Department of Justice, 1997).


"Between 1984 and 1999, the number of defendants charged with a drug offense in U.S. district courts increased about 3% annually, on average, from 11,854 to 29,306."

Source: Scalia, John, US Dept. of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Federal Drug Offenders, 1999 with Trends 1984-99 (Washington, DC: US Dept. of Justice, August 2001), p. 7.


"As a result of increased prosecutions and longer time served in prison, the number of drug offenders in Federal prisons increased more than 12% annually, on average, from 14,976 during 1986 to 68,360 during 1999."

Source: Scalia, John, US Dept. of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Federal Drug Offenders, 1999 with Trends 1984-99 (Washington, DC: US Dept. of Justice, August 2001), p. 7.
Click to expand...

There are THREE (3) times as many people in jail for violent crimes, as there are for drug crimes...
 
Steroid_Virgin said:


There are THREE (3) times as many people in jail for violent crimes, as there are for drug crimes...
Click to expand...

I get your point dude, and think that it is a good one. We are locked in a vicious circle of criminality that is brutalizing communities and creating an underclass and more prisons are not part of the solution but we have no choice because we have to do something with these people but then we have to let them go later, and then they are worse criminals than when they started and so on. I agree with you.

I'm just pointing out that the drug war is some real shit. I was trying to point out a trend, particularly at the fed level:


"Prisoners sentenced for drug offenses constitute the largest group of Federal inmates (57%) in 2000, up from 53% in 1990 (table 20). On September 30, 2000, the date of the latest available data in the Federal Justice Statistics Program, Federal prisons held 73,389 sentenced drug offenders, compared to 30,470 at yearend 1990."

Source: Harrison, Paige M. & Allen J. Beck, PhD, US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prisoners in 2001 (Washington, DC: US Department of Justice, July 2002), p. 14.


Here's the state level:


In 2000, drug law violators comprised 21% of all adults serving time in State prisons - 251,100 out of 1,206,400 State prison inmates.

Source: Harrison, Paige M. & Allen J. Beck, US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prisoners in 2001 (Washington, DC: US Department of Justice, July 2002), p. 12 & Table 17, p. 13.


And how much of that violence is drug related? Half? More?
 
Steroid_Virgin said:


There are THREE (3) times as many people in jail for violent crimes, as there are for drug crimes...
Click to expand...

NOOOO....in state prison...which is vastly different than jail.

AND, the highest percentage increases even in state prison are most rapid for drugs, not for violent crime.

The whole violence thing is propaganda. The government wants you to blame things like "family values" and ",edia" when in fact the problem is a system that serves upper class populations at the expense of lower income ones.

The problem is an economic one.
 
The US has one of the highest per capital incomes inthe world.. If our problem was economic in nature, it would be much more pronounced in everyday life. economics is a cop out.

Violence is the problem.. our society is an effect of increased and accepted violence...
 
Steroid_Virgin said:
The US has one of the highest per capital incomes inthe world.. If our problem was economic in nature, it would be much more pronounced in everyday life. economics is a cop out.

Violence is the problem.. our society is an effect of increased and accepted violence...
Click to expand...

Where is that high per capita income doing in Liberty City, Miami? How about East New York? Compton, CA?

Where's the money? Not there. This is why there is violence. Compare the violent crime state for wealthy areas vs poor areas and you'll see the problem is economic in nature.
 
Per capita income is without a doubt the most useless statistic ever devised by some bullshit turd muncher.
 
During the great depression... there was not a HUGE increase in crime.... times were different.. "people pulled their own weight" instead of stealing from eachother, or asking for govt hand outs... people used to care about one another... now they dont... Some fucking melting pot we are eh???

violence & greed, not economics...
 
I'm wondering how much is contributed by the easy access to handguns.
Don't get me wrong, I own a gun, and am all for a persons right to own one.
But I have to wonder...a guy becomes enraged at someone, his wife say.
In gunless countries he might slap her around a bit, but here he can grab his gun and kill her.
I'm not defending either. Just noticing that the easy access to the handgun may be resulting in a higher level of murder that would otherwise be a simple domestic dispute.
 
guns dont cause violence.. guns are a tool of the violent... getting rid of guns wont make people less violent, it will make them chose a different instrument to be violent with...

Solve the problem.
 
I agree guns don't cause violence.
But if you stab me with a kitchen knife, I'm likely to recover.
Shoot me with a gun and I'm dead, and you're in jail for a much more serious offense than a stab wound.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:


I think you are looking at snmaller issues while sidestepping the really big one:

1. Aggressive policing of impoverisihed areas, typically the people who cannot afford legal services and are at the mercy of the system, leads to a disproportionate incarceration of poor people.

In other words, we are jailing our way out of the poverty problem.
Click to expand...

And the Great Skywalker Speaketh the Truth.
 
Steroid_Virgin said:
guns dont cause violence.. guns are a tool of the violent... getting rid of guns wont make people less violent, it will make them chose a different instrument to be violent with...

Solve the problem.
Click to expand...

Great! Choose one that doesn't kill from 50 feet and doesn't put baseball size holes in you. Yes, get rid of the guns and replace them with nerf balls.
 
The reason for prison rate increases is the War on Drugs, which is the greatest thing ever devised for government growth. The War on Terrorism is going to synergize with the former to expand government faster than we ever dreamed.

Crime is now big business. I said it before, look at the amount of effort the police system uses for a crime and there is a direct correlation to the amount of revenue that is generated from it, i.e. traffic violations, licensing laws, and drug related crimes.

Prisons, judges, police, lawyers all derive their livelihood from this industry. They will not allow it to go away.

I do not believe we are incarcerating poor because we wish to ignore them, but they just so happen to be the people who have higher rates of use of drugs and their numbers are expanding. Their lifestyle and existence perpetuates government growth.
 
cockdezl said:
The reason for prison rate increases is the War on Drugs, which is the greatest thing ever devised for government growth. The War on Terrorism is going to synergize with the former to expand government faster than we ever dreamed.
Crime is now big business. I said it before, look at the amount of effort the police system uses for a crime and there is a direct correlation to the amount of revenue that is generated from it, i.e. traffic violations, licensing laws, and drug related crimes.
Prisons, judges, police, lawyers all derive their livelihood from this industry. They will not allow it to go away.
I do not believe we are incarcerating poor because we wish to ignore them, but they just so happen to be the people who have higher rates of use of drugs and their numbers are expanding. Their lifestyle and existence perpetuates government growth.
Click to expand...

Holy bunghole!! Great Post!
 
Steroid_Virgin said:
times were different.. "people pulled their own weight" instead of stealing from eachother, or asking for govt hand outs... people used to care about one another... now they dont... Some fucking melting pot we are eh???
Click to expand...

This is that "good old days" bullshit propaganda that THE MAN wants you to believe. People weren't asking for handouts? They were to busy starving to death. Where did handouts come from? Did they fall from the sky?

Political leaders will tell you that if you vote for them, a return to the "good old days" will happen, where we all care about each other and help out. Well, tehy've been saying that forever, and it hasn;t happened. There ARE no good old days. That is feel good bullshit that was put in your high school etxtbooks so the board of education would approve them.

1. The government hasn't gotten smaller.

2. The war on drugs has expanded and has now become a war on terrorism, except we are fighting it against Americans. (Operation TIPS, etc.)

3. Now you are calling for behavior modification...wprked well in Germany in the 1930's....

Admit it. you;ve been duped. We all have...it's OK. The key is getting informed and un-duped. Stop believing the bullshit.
 
They should just simplify it and call it the War on Freedom...or the War on Independence...or the War on Autonomy...what will be funny is the hypocratic day we will declare a War on Violence...

What's also funny is that hypocratic isnt a real word
 
MattTheSkywalker said:


This is that "good old days" bullshit propaganda that THE MAN wants you to believe. People weren't asking for handouts? They were to busy starving to death. Where did handouts come from? Did they fall from the sky?

Political leaders will tell you that if you vote for them, a return to the "good old days" will happen, where we all care about each other and help out. Well, tehy've been saying that forever, and it hasn;t happened. There ARE no good old days. That is feel good bullshit that was put in your high school etxtbooks so the board of education would approve them.

1. The government hasn't gotten smaller.

2. The war on drugs has expanded and has now become a war on terrorism, except we are fighting it against Americans. (Operation TIPS, etc.)

3. Now you are calling for behavior modification...wprked well in Germany in the 1930's....

Admit it. you;ve been duped. We all have...it's OK. The key is getting informed and un-duped. Stop believing the bullshit.
Click to expand...


The man... hahahah you're pretty fucking funny.. :rolleyes: I cant argue with conspiracy theories... so I guess we will have to agree to disagree..
 
Steroid_Virgin said:
Frack, check the link, drugs are not the first but narrowly second as the highest reson for incarceration.... matter of fact, the % population of people in jail because of drugs has stayed constant over the last 12 years, while others like violent crime have increased...

check the facts
Click to expand...

Please be careful with words. Arrested for "violent crime." What´s that? Couldn´t they be committing violence for smack money or fighting over drug turf?
 
Doktor Bollix said:


Check these facts.

Over 80% of the increase in the federal prison population from 1985 to 1995 was due to drug convictions.

Source: US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prisoners in 1996 (Washington DC: US Department of Justice, 1997).


"Between 1984 and 1999, the number of defendants charged with a drug offense in U.S. district courts increased about 3% annually, on average, from 11,854 to 29,306."

Source: Scalia, John, US Dept. of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Federal Drug Offenders, 1999 with Trends 1984-99 (Washington, DC: US Dept. of Justice, August 2001), p. 7.


"As a result of increased prosecutions and longer time served in prison, the number of drug offenders in Federal prisons increased more than 12% annually, on average, from 14,976 during 1986 to 68,360 during 1999."

Source: Scalia, John, US Dept. of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Federal Drug Offenders, 1999 with Trends 1984-99 (Washington, DC: US Dept. of Justice, August 2001), p. 7.
Click to expand...

When analyzing things like this keep in mind WHO BENEFITS.
1. Federal for-profit prison system
2. Blacks don´t vote Republican
 
I do not believe we are incarcerating poor because we wish to ignore them, but they just so happen to be the people who have higher rates of use of drugs and their numbers are expanding. Their lifestyle and existence perpetuates government growth.
Click to expand...

don´t think you are correct about higher rates of drug use for "poor people." Got a stat?
 
aurelius said:


don´t think you are correct about higher rates of drug use for "poor people." Got a stat?
Click to expand...

Nope, but I assume that you do not have a counter statistic to disprove my assertion.

I contend that drug use is higher in certain socioeconomic classes and from personal experiences this is correct. I understand that many affluent people use drugs, but you will not see drug sales on the street corner of wealthy neighborhoods, while this is not uncommon in poor neighborhoods. This aids the drug enforcement industry; if you are dumb enough to do it out in the open, then you are at greater risk of arrest.
 
cockdezl said:


Nope, but I assume that you do not have a counter statistic to disprove my assertion.

I contend that drug use is higher in certain socioeconomic classes and from personal experiences this is correct. I understand that many affluent people use drugs, but you will not see drug sales on the street corner of wealthy neighborhoods, while this is not uncommon in poor neighborhoods. This aids the drug enforcement industry; if you are dumb enough to do it out in the open, then you are at greater risk of arrest.
Click to expand...

Back to rhetoric class. You made the assertion, you must back it up.

Personal experience? Not good enough. Exactly. That´s a big reason they get busted more. Higher visibility, not because they do it more.
 
aurelius said:


Back to rhetoric class. You made the assertion, you must back it up.

Personal experience? Not good enough. Exactly. That´s a big reason they get busted more. Higher visibility, not because they do it more.
Click to expand...

I didn't think that you really had any solid information contradicting what I stated, only the allusion of a shadowy, unquanitifiable, rich, drug using population. "Rich people use more drugs, but they don't get caught or convicted" horseshit. Gee, how can someone counter such an esoteric statistic as that?

I contended that I did not have a statistic on hand to support my assertion, but I knew that your counter was not based on any evidence anyway. But my assertion is supported by the statistics that are available:

http://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/usa/race/pdf/table1.pdf

But please show us that this is incorrect, and that whites really are the greater drug using population. I eagerly await your next one sentence post.
 
cockdezl said:


I didn't think that you really had any solid information contradicting what I stated, only the allusion of a shadowy, unquanitifiable, rich, drug using population. "Rich people use more drugs, but they don't get caught or convicted" horseshit. Gee, how can someone counter such an esoteric statistic as that?Did you read the "back to rhetoric class" statment? It is up to you to prove your assertion, not up to me to prove the negative. Now you are making up some ridiculous statemet I never said and arguing against it

I contended that I did not have a statistic on hand to support my assertion, but I knew that your counter was not based on any evidence anyway. But my assertion is supported by the statistics that are available:I never gave a "counter." I simply asked for statistic? Don´t you see that?

http://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/usa/race/pdf/table1.pdf

But please show us that this is incorrect, and that whites really are the greater drug using population. I eagerly await your next one sentence post. I think you think this is about being right and wrong and scoring points. Too bad. That stat is of limited use as, I suspected, it only shows encarceration rates. You said, "I understand that many affluent people use drugs, but you will not see drug sales on the street corner of wealthy neighborhoods, while this is not uncommon in poor neighborhoods." Couldn´t that be an explanation for higher black incarceration rates?
Click to expand...
 
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