Possible reason for high dose steroid use

[madmitch]

Ok ever since "The Iron Games" post on Cortisol I have been look up every damn web site I can find with any info on cortisol and it's effects on the body.

Basically what I have found is that Cortisol is the complete opposite of Testosterone.

For a long time it has been said that steroid's muscle building effect is due, more to their anti-catabolic effect (anti-cortisol effect), than their anabolic effect.

i.e. Testosterone can block Cortisol receptors and Cortisol can also block Androgen Receptors.

Ok with natural levels of Test all AR's are supposed to be saturated i.e. The 7 mg of Test that your body produces each day is enough to saturate all your Androgen Receptors.

However there are 50 times more Cortisol Receptors than there are Androgen Receptors in your body.

Do you see what's coming next?

Well wouldn't it seem logical that in order to block all them Cortisol receptors you would need 50 times more Androgens than you have naturally.

50 x 7 mg x 7 days = 2450 mg of steroids per week required to block all Cortisol receptors.

I'll bet the little calculation above will bring much flaming and Gnashing of teeth.

Anyway by blocking Cortisol receptors you will cause negitive fed back which will cause your body to not only increase the amount of Cortisol it produces but also to increase the number of Cortisol receptors.

Theres more but I don't want to bore you.

 

[The Iron Game]

First off you should go take a trip to the library or some where and pick up a few books on stress. Many psychologists have carried out experiments in relation to gh, igf, anabolic and catabolic hormone secretion.

Secondly a small flaw in the '7mgs of natural test will saturate the ar'. The ar is never completely saturated.

Thirdly although there maybe 50 times more cortisol receptors in the body than androgen receptors it doesnt mean cortisol is 50 times more powerful than testosterone. Cannot compare them in real terms. Also I am sure cortisol is secreted at a much less rate than test/day.

Fourthly you do not wish to block the cortisiol receptor, just prevent certain level of catabolic hormones flooding the body. Not to block every cr.

Lasty "50 x 7 mg x 7 days = 2450 mg of steroids per week required to block all Cortisol receptors."

No no no, not even close.

50 x more cr's than ar's is what you are saying.

7mgs of natural test/day is what you are saying. Where is the relationship between test and cortisol. Are you saying that 7mgs of test will only bind to the ar and have no impact on the cr. Do you have medical refs in saying that 7mgs of test will only bind directly to the same number of cr's than ar's and in order to saturate cr's you will need 50 x the amount? Not even close.


Peace and comments

 

[strengthmonster]

Isn't the drug Orimetine used to block cortisol production? I understand it is very dangerous to completely supress it as it is needed for essential functions of the body.

 

[Bubba]

IRON GAME has done a great service by causing you to research. That makes the questions or points being put forth to be that much better. Thus cause everbody to see things at a different level.

These are the kind of posts we all learn from.
BUMP!

 

[The Ranger]

Strengthmonster...you're on the right path....completely blocking cortisol could be a bad thing....alot of chemicals with anti-progestin capabilities could have a negative effect on the body....

RU-486 and winny spring to mind....Look at how often people post that their joints hurt, or they pulled muscles on winny alone cycles....as for the RU-486, I cannot comment hence I've never used it, nor will have to....everyone here knows full well my views on Deca....

Ranger

 

[madmitch]

Well Iron Game

Your body does produce more Cortisol per day than Testosterone, sorry to correct you.

Approx. daily Cortisol production is 20 mg.

So yes you are right, at normal levels, for homeostasis Cortisol is actually less powerful than Test, approx 3 times less powerful.

20/7 approx = 3

As I have said, you can't block all CR's because your body responds by increasing the number of CR's in order to bring the body back into homeostasis.

I've always wondered why a lot of steroid guru's suggest the pyramid cycles now I think I know why.

You know I'm closer than you say I am Iron Game.

 

[madmitch]

Bubba, yes try to see things differently.

Almost everyone today believes in starting their cycle with the maximum amount of steroids and not bothering to taper, why?

Because someone said, it only takes a small amount of steroids to suppress your natural test levels so why bother with tapering as this will not help you regain your natural Test levels.

Yes, but that is not the reason for tapering, it is to allow your body to return to homeostasis. i.e. To allow time for cortisol levels to normalise.

Otherwise if you stopped taking steroids completely and still tried to train with high intensity, Cortisol would kick the living day shit out of your body.

This I believe is the reason behind Pyramiding:

In the beginning of the cycle you should not need much steroids to combat the increase in cortisol as a result of uping the intensity of your workouts.

As time goes by your body starts to react by increasing the production of cortisol in order to bring things back to homeostasis. As our bodies do not like change.

So you gradually increase your steroids week by week in order to keep growing, until you reach your peak.

Then, on the way back down the pyramid you lower you steroid intake, little by little, which will cause your body to respond by slowly lowering Cortisol levels. This way you don't get a sudden crash.

Iron game - I'm just trying to make things simplistic rather than going into great detail about all the Bullshit chemistry that a lot of the rest of the guy's go into.

The f**king Doctors and scientist who study all this shit don't even fully understand how all the various hormones in our bodies interact.

Prime example - Prostate cancer.

There are three different theories going around as to what really causes it.

1. That it is caused by excessive levels of DHT

2. That it is excessive levels of estrogen that causes it.

3. The most resent, some scientist believe that Cortisol is the main cause of prostate cancer.

Who is right?

Fucked if I know, but hopefully you understand what I am saying.

 

[Tuna Guy]

If for example deca has a half life of 7 days and you inject 400mg's every week, surely this would be in effect "a pyramid cycle" as the dosage would be incresed every week. Say you have your last injection in week 8 surely this would represent the down side of the pyramid as the drug would take at least 4 weeks to leave the system depreciating by half each week.