PCT too soon?

[Anthony Starks]

From what I have read, the half-life for test eth and cyp is about 2-3 weeks. So, if you were on a cycle of a gram of test ew, you would still have over a gram of test in your system if you start PCT 2-3 weeks after your last shot. In fact, it would be months before your levels were down low enough that the test in your system would not be suppressive. Deca and sus would be even worse with their longer lasting ester. Can someone explain?

 

[LoneTree]

2-3 weeks is long enough period. PCT wouldn't raise your hormone levels to normal overnight. It would be a gradual effect. So as your injected test levels gradually go down, your endogenous production would gradually rise.

 

[Anthony Starks]

2-3 weeks is long enough period. PCT wouldn't raise your hormone levels to normal overnight. It would be a gradual effect. So as your injected test levels gradually go down, your endogenous production would gradually rise.

But even if you did PCT for 5-6 weeks, by the end of it your injected test levels would still be high enough to suppress your endogenous production again.

 

[slat1]

the esters clear after, I believe, 17 to 21 days. Meaning, you will be below your natural test levels at that point.

 

[slat1]

My bad.. I checked the facts... it is 14 days that the esters clear for test ent.

 

[Anthony Starks]

the esters clear after, I believe, 17 to 21 days.

So its not a half-life, its the time it takes for the drug to completely clear your system.

 

[Apexx]

I've wondered about his myself. Bump for more responses.....

 

[Anthony Starks]

My bad.. I checked the facts... it is 14 days that the esters clear for test ent.

Because, not to be contradictory, but I have seen a lot of very respected bros on here say that the HALFLIFE of test enth is 14 days, which is very different than the number of days it takes to clear your system.

 

[wellbilt]

Because, not to be contradictory, but I have seen a lot of very respected bros on here say that the HALFLIFE of test enth is 14 days, which is very different than the number of days it takes to clear your system.

i have heard this too bro

 

[crfpilot14]

half-life is the time it takes for 1/2 of the drug to be metabolized/removed from your system. it usually takes 4 half-lives to reach steady-state, ie for the drug to have its maximum affect. it also takes about 4 half-lives to clear your system as well. this is assuming first order kinetics.

 

[Anthony Starks]

half-life is the time it takes for 1/2 of the drug to be metabolized/removed from your system. it usually takes 4 half-lives to reach steady-state, ie for the drug to have its maximum affect. it also takes about 4 half-lives to clear your system as well. this is assuming first order kinetics.

So by that logic you should get your best gains from your last shot 8-12 weeks after you shoot it (4 halflives)? Thats not what I have experienced.

And then ANOTHER 8-12 weeks for that shot to clear your system? Thats half a year after your last shot before the drug has cleared.

 

[SuperDawgy]

The point of PCT is to ramp up your natural test production as quickly as possible after a cycle and retain your gains using your own hormones . Regardless of what the 1/2 life of a given substance is, it's in your best interest to start your nuts pumpin before your synthetic test bottoms out. Hence the use of HCG and Nolvadex.

Jenetic, feel like expanding on this one?

 

[Anthony Starks]

The point of PCT is to ramp up your natural test production as quickly as possible after a cycle and retain your gains using your own hormones . Regardless of what the 1/2 life of a given substance is, it's in your best interest to start your nuts pumpin before your synthetic test bottoms out. Hence the use of HCG and Nolvadex.

Jenetic, feel like expanding on this one?

That actually does make a lot of sense, and I see exactly where HCG comes in. But how are you going to stimulate your testes to start producing their OWN test with hundreds of grams of synthetic test still in your body? If your PCT ends and you still have that synthetic test in your system, why would your body not shut down? I'm not saying I have the answer, but maybe people should be looking into longer PCT or HCG only at first and Nolva a few months later once the test has cleared?

 

[SuperDawgy]

That actually does make a lot of sense, and I see exactly where HCG comes in. But how are you going to stimulate your testes to start producing their OWN test with hundreds of grams of synthetic test still in your body? If your PCT ends and you still have that synthetic test in your system, why would your body not shut down? I'm not saying I have the answer, but maybe people should be looking into longer PCT or HCG only at first and Nolva a few months later once the test has cleared?

The synthetic that is left over isn't going to stop your body from starting production. The stimulation of LH is what kick starts it. The HCG is a gonadotropin that brings the testes back up to size, the nolva kicks the test production by introducing a higher estro level and signaling your body to counteract it by producing test. Simple as that. If you wait too long before you start this process, you lose size...period.

 

[Anthony Starks]

The synthetic that is left over isn't going to stop your body from starting production. The stimulation of LH is what kick starts it. The HCG is a gonadotropin that brings the testes back up to size, the nolva kicks the test production by introducing a higher estro level and signaling your body to counteract it by producing test. Simple as that. If you wait too long before you start this process, you lose size...period.

So I guess what I'd like someone to explain is why for example 250mg of test still in your system (which is not unreasonable 6 weeks after a cycle) is not going to stop your body from starting production. Thats the part of your argument I don't understand.

 

[bicepts101]

The synthetic that is left over isn't going to stop your body from starting production. The stimulation of LH is what kick starts it. The HCG is a gonadotropin that brings the testes back up to size, the nolva kicks the test production by introducing a higher estro level and signaling your body to counteract it by producing test. Simple as that. If you wait too long before you start this process, you lose size...period.

ok first of all nolva does not introduce a higher level of estrogen...i dont know where you got that information from....tomaxifen lowers estrogen by targeting specific receptor sites which in turn will help bring test levels back up...and also this is the reason why it is so effective in eliminating gyno...because of its ability to target receptor sites...breast tissue being the most important to us.

if u use hcg through out your cycle and keep testes at normal size they wont atrophy..so hcg is not needed during pct...this will elimate any controversy of whether or not hcg is suppressive, cuase u are using it through your cycle so u no longer need it pct... to me this is easier on pct...makes sense no?

 

[bicepts101]

From what I have read, the half-life for test eth and cyp is about 2-3 weeks. So, if you were on a cycle of a gram of test ew, you would still have over a gram of test in your system if you start PCT 2-3 weeks after your last shot. In fact, it would be months before your levels were down low enough that the test in your system would not be suppressive. Deca and sus would be even worse with their longer lasting ester. Can someone explain?

Detection times for AAS

Anavar 3 weeks
Anadrol 2 months
Andriol 1 week
Clenbuterol 4-5 Days
Deca Durabolin (Nandrolone Decanoate) 18 months
Dianabol 5 weeks
Durabolin (Nandrolone Phenylpropionate) 12 months
Ephedrin 6-10 Days
Equipoise (Boldenone Undecyclenate) 4-5 months
Halotestin 2 months
Primobolin Depot 4-5 weeks
Proviron 5 weeks
Sustanon 3 months
Test cypionate 3 months
Test enanathate 3 months
Test Propionate 2-3 weeks
Test supspenison No metabolites. t/e should
be back to normal in days
Tremolon Acetetate 4-5 weeks
Winstrol oral (Stanazol) 3 weeks
Winstrol inj (Stanazol) 2 months .

Factors which influence the detection times

Metabolism
Fluid intake
Tolerance to the drug
Frequency of intake
Duration of intake
Body fat
Potency of drug
Dosage

Drug Half-Life:

Arimidex 3 days
Clenbuterol 1.5 days
Anavar 9 hours
Stanozolol (oral) 9 hours
Methyltest 4 days
Stanozolol (injectable) 1 day
Clomid 5 days
Anadrol / Anapolan50 (oxymetholone) 8 to 9 hours
Dianabol 4.5 hours
Testosterone Suspension 1 day

Here are the half-lives for any of the following steroid esters:

Ester Half-Life

Formate 1.5 days
Acetate 3 days
Propionate 4.5 days
Phenylpropionate 4.5 days
Butyrate 6 days
Valerate 7.5 days
Hexanoate 9 days
Caproate 9 days
Isocaproate 9 days
Heptanoate 10.5 days
Enanthate 10.5 days
Octanoate 12 days
Cypionate 12 days
Nonanoate 13.5 days
Decanoate 15 days
Undecanoate 16.5 days

For all you sust lovers out there note that the following esters and amounts are used:
30mg Propionate
55mg Phenylpropionate
65mg Caproate
100mg Decanoate

Testonon uses the following amounts:
30mg Propionate
55mg Phenylpropionate
65mg Isocaproate
100mg Enanthate

Note that sust and testonon are in fact different in one respect. Also note that the longest acting ester in
these has a half-life of 15 days. As Andy noted previously, 1/2 the half-life should be the optimal point to
begin therapy, thus 1 month (minimum) with testonon and sust.

I would like to point out another fact that arimidex has a half-life of 3 days. Thus an everyday
administration is not neccessary


Ancillaries Drug Active half-life
Arimidex 3 days
Clenbuterol 1.5 days
Clomid 5 days
Cytadren 6 hours
Ephedrine 6 hours
T3 10 hours

Steroid
Time After Administration
Clomid Length
Anadrol 50
8-12 hours
3 weeks

Deca Durobolan
3 weeks
4 weeks

Dianabol
4-8 hours
3 weeks

Equipoise
17-21 days
3 weeks

Trenbolone
3 days
3 weeks

Primobolan Depot
10-14 days
2 weeks

Sustanon
3 weeks
3 weeks

Test Cypionate
2 weeks
3 weeks

Test Enthenate
2 weeks
3 weeks

Test Propionate
3 days
3 weeks

Test Suspension
4-8 hours
2 weeks

Winstrol
8-12 hours
2 weeks

 

[Anthony Starks]

I found that post really informative Bicepts, I'd give you more karma it would let me because it was a good read. But it still does not really answer my question.

 

[Anthony Starks]

So I guess what I'd like someone to explain is why for example 250mg of test still in your system (which is not unreasonable 6 weeks after a cycle) is not going to stop your body from starting production. Thats the part of your argument I don't understand.

Bump.

 

[NYBodyguard]

i take novla thruout cycle i start hcg as soon as cycle ends

 

[Anthony Starks]

i take novla thruout cycle i start hcg as soon as cycle ends

No offense, but this has nothing to do with what we are discussing.

 

[bicepts101]

So I guess what I'd like someone to explain is why for example 250mg of test still in your system (which is not unreasonable 6 weeks after a cycle) is not going to stop your body from starting production. Thats the part of your argument I don't understand.

i see what you are saying starks...

the chemical becomes inacctive but can still be detected, simply as it can be put....think of it like any drug...it loses its effects after a much shorter time than it is accually in the body.

 

[nydj66]

References for half-life that I have seen show enanthate anywhere from 5 to 10.5 days. This is different from detection times.

When you get down to the level of 200mg/week or less of test being absorbed into your system, you can start PCT and begin recovery. With enanthate this condition occurs when you still have 400-500mg in your body.

So, the rule of thumb for enanthate and cypionate is to start PCT 2 weeks after the last shot.

 

[pursuit]

Maybe this explains why I feel great 3 weeks after my last sust injection but by the 4th week feel crapper. After 3 weeks there is still an appreciable level of the sust in your body.

 

[Anthony Starks]

Cool, thanks for the responses guys.