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paxil question
- Thread starter digso
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the nature boy
New member
I was on it for a year. the shit made me tired as a mofo.
chillin408
New member
Paxil can be benificial for some. Personally, it didn't do anything for me other than destroy sex drive and cause weird dreams.
It's commonly used as an anti-depressant because of it's low side affects. The downside is that it may take months before any results are shown in the subject. Low sex drive is a common side, although it is debatable as to whether it's the drug or the affliction causing the attrition in sexual interrest.
Steroid_Virgin
New member
stay the fuck away from paxil... it changes you...
musclebrains
New member
Digso: Try to convince your shrink to prescribe a different drug. Although Paxil is quite effective in treating depression and, to some degree, OCD as well, the withdrawal is often a nightmare when it comes time to discontinue it. I ask my consulting psychiatrist to only prescribe it as a last resort.
A relatively new drug with very few sides, and one that seems to work for people when many others don't, is Celexa.
A relatively new drug with very few sides, and one that seems to work for people when many others don't, is Celexa.
H
~HOUNDOG~
Guest
I have taken paxil for over a year.
Trust me,it is good for some and bad for others.
But if you wanna get meaner than a wolverine with rabies with 40mg halo down it's throat,try withdrawing from paxil.That will make you a mean SOB.
Trust me,it is good for some and bad for others.
But if you wanna get meaner than a wolverine with rabies with 40mg halo down it's throat,try withdrawing from paxil.That will make you a mean SOB.
hmmm ...... not sure if i really wanna ask my dr. about perscribing it. the side affects, to me is not worth it. i've been dealing with slight anxiety lately. maybe its because winter is coming, lack of sunlight or just stress at work. not sure whats really goig on, i can't really focus.
how about xanax, anybody try that out?
btw been using b-complex, b6, kava kava, 5htp, multivits, to help me out, not really working though. up and down.
how about xanax, anybody try that out?
btw been using b-complex, b6, kava kava, 5htp, multivits, to help me out, not really working though. up and down.
This is one of my pet peaves. How everyone thinks that they can overcome their problems with prescription drugs. "Oh shit, my dog died. Better get on prozac." Come on guys!!!! Get a sport, get a hobby, get laid, go for a run, masturbate. I don't care, just try all other options FIRST before hitting the drugs. This sense of "chemical well-being" is an epidemic!!!!!!!!! People have been overcoming their problems for centuries without chemical aids, why is it that people have turned to chemicals in recent years???
My 2 cc's
My 2 cc's
R
roidog420
Guest
guards said:
UH because they work?! DUH! And SOME of the people you are talking about NEED the meds in question here! Not everyone is a ducks ass like yourself.
R
roidog420
Guest
Also GUARDS, I do all the things that you say to do that are supposed to aleviate my problems i.e. Get Laid, Beat off, lift, run, whatever. ALL of that shit! And trust me when I tell you that I STILL need Paxil to get me by for whatever physiological reason. You wouldn't want to be around me when Im off it TRUST me. And personally, I've NEVER had any sides other than lower sex drive, but a few pops of T400 cures that real quick.
musclebrains
New member
guards said:
It's certainly true that these drugs are vastly over-prescribed, but they have saved many lives. Many people who would have killed themselves in the past have found relief with antidepressants.
Part of the problem -- besides the cultural belief that we're all supposed to be equally happy --- is that these drugs have turned out to do more than simply reduce depression. Peter Kramer, in his well known book "Listening to Prozac," inventories the "cosmetic" effects of that drug. People who are typically shy and more introverted, for one example, often become more sociable and therefore more successful. The drug also tends to increase actual productivity. (That's one reason Prozac has been called a type of speed.)
So the question for practitioners is whether to prescribe these drugs for effects that probably ought to be called cosmetic. But in a culture that has turned shyness into a disorder called "social anxiety" and values production above all else, can these adaptive effects really be called cosmetic?
I don't disagree that there is a percentage that really do benefit from the use of these drugs. It is just my observation that many doctors/psychiatrists jump the gun when prescribing them. If you have a kidney problem, do they remove the kidney first before trying everything else??? I think not, they try every other avenue first. People should exhaust their other options before considering drug therapy.
And anybody that says they NEED these drugs is using them as a crutch rather than a remedy. They are not a cure, only an aid.
And anybody that says they NEED these drugs is using them as a crutch rather than a remedy. They are not a cure, only an aid.
R
roidog420
Guest
guards said:
FIRST you say that you dont disagree that certain people benefit from using these drugs & then out of the other side of your mouth you say that ANYONE using the drugs are using them as a crutch????!?!?!?! Dude why dont you get your ducks in a fucking row here & quit contradicting yourself?! ALSO, people dont try every other option before using these drugs BECAUSE if they have taken the step to get help(which is hard to do thanks to people with negative attitudes towards mental deficiencies, like YOURSELF), then the chances are that they are in need of help NOW & that the problems they are having are in need of IMMEDIATE care. In other words, they have ALLREADY exhausted ALL other viable options!!! You understand what the fuck I'm saying? I guess we should just throw out all the people who need these drugs & who's lives have been changed for the better BECAUSE of these drugs, because ASSHOLES like you are too IGNORANT to understand why someone might ACTUALLY NEED THEM right? As if anyone who is having problems that might be remedied by Paxil might say "O, I better not take this Paxil because assholes like GUARDS will think that I'm using them as a crutch". Who cares what you think man?! Your OBVIOUSLY ignorant about the whole subject and just like to label anyone who isn't just like you. Fucking narcisistic piece of shit! Its because of ASSHOLE like you that kept me from seeking help that I needed for so long. Too bad I didn't get to meet you before I went on the Paxil GUARDS....Mr. Hyde would have loved to introduce himself.....
I love the maturity that came along with your post. I am pointing out the epidemic of anti-depressant use. There are thousands of young teenagers being prescribed these drugs for anti-depression. There are thousands more going to there doctors REQUESTING the use of anti-depressants. Doesn't this sound a little sketchy to you?? The fact that people assume the only way to help them through the trials and tribulations of life......... is a pill??? I find this disturbing. Like I said before, I recognize that there is a legitimate use for these drugs, but the prescription criteria is far too broad. It is not assholes like me that prevented you from seeking help, as I will tell anyone that has problems to seek help, but "help" does not necessarily mean drug-therapy. There are so many other alternatives. Counciling, group work etc.
As for Mr.Hyde..........I'm sure he and I would have gotten along just fine.
chillin408
New member
Just want to mention that I hate how so many of these fuckin ignorant asshole doctors are so benzophobic and will attempt at frightening patients with a long list of rare side and almost never heard of side effects related to benzos..But when it comes to SSRI's they are god's gift to earth, almost no side effects, sexual but thats it, according to them..hahaha yea right, I hate that bullshit!!! Their fuckin liars!! The first half of this thread is a testament to the real SSRI side effects that they hide from you because their big money makers right , I wonder if SSRI's will be looked down upon in the future. Anyway, from what I've gather from responses on various board is that benzodiazepines have way less common side effects than fuckin penis amputating SSRI's.
chillin408 said:
I agree with this. I wanted to share my opinion.
Some disorders require long term drug treatment, and other disorders dont. The distinction is made by determining the etiology or causation of the disorder. Some psychological disorders are caused *most of the time* by a persons enviroment. In this case, the neurochemical imbalance is preceded by enviromental stressors that cause the brain (and usually a persons thinking habits) to change for the worse. Medications can work well for disorders that are primarly enviromental caused, however they should be used only as a stepping stone to help the person with cognitive/behavorial therapy specialized for their disorder. Cognitive/behavorual therapy essientially changes a persons thinking habits and exposes them to anxiety causing or challenging situations that were previously avoided, respectivily. The change in thinking, and the successful exposure to challenging situations acutally changes the neurochemical/neuronal connections in the brain (this is called neuronal plasticity). Essientially, cognitive/behavoural therapy addresses the root of enviromentally caused disorders by changing a persons cognitions which effectivily alters the individuals neuronal pathways/chemical balance in a similar way to psychotropic meds. Examples of some disorders that are primarly caused by enviromental stressors:
1) depression
2) social anxiety
3) panic
Other disorders that are primarly genetic based require long term drug therapy that address the inherited neurochemical imbalance in the individual. Usually, cognitive/behavorial therapy can be used as a supplemental treatment for primarly genetical based disorders, but it is never enough. Some examples of primarly genetical based disorders are:
1) schizophrenia
2) OCD
3) Bi Polar Disorder
4) ADHD
Most general physcians promote drug therapy extensivily because:
1) family physicians arnt specialists in mental disorders. Therefore, their knowledge of new therapys, especially non-biologically based therapys for mental disorders is severly limited, which leads them too.....
2) be swayed by drug reps to over-promote/prescribe psychotropic meds for people that dont *really* need it.
3) Commerical drug companies *pad* (Im using the word nicely here) their clinical drug trials
4) North American culture favors the quick fix.
Some psychatrists tend to overprescribe meds as well because their educational paradigm is biologically oriented. Although all human cognition and perhaps consciouness is rooted in biological structures (our brain), the enviroment an individual is exposed to can effectivily alter our brains structure and neurochemical balance (which explains why cognitive/behavoual therapy is an effective treatment for primarly enviromentally caused disorders).
Personally, I went through social anxiety and clinical depression. The major depression is gone, the social anxiety is going away. I was on paxil for social anxiety, it did nothing for me. Im a testament to cognitive/behavoral therapy for social anxiety and depression.
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wow, i didn't think this post would stir so many thoughts and emotions. i've read them all, and honestly i agree with everybody. let me explain.
back in high school i was very popular, after high school just as or even more. i had no anxieties what so ever. never second guessing myself, never self concious and above all, never shy. i loved meeting new people. i got into a scene where to me i believe was the begging of the end for me. i was heavy into raves and rave culture. i took shit loads of ecstacy and other drugs. it's been a couple of years now since i've partied like that, but the long term sides are here. my thinking is different, i'm not so secure anymore with myself, not confident like i used to be, not nearly as social as i used to be. maybe times do change and people change. i just look back at a time where is was really happy and wished i was that person again.
i do believe that drugs are too easly perscribed. i went in to talk to someone about things and on my first visit he wanted me on something. he said it would clear my mind. i didn't take it, i thought it was too soon. he didn't even really listen. maybe i could have talked it out. i also believe that environment plays a big role in personality and growth.
i've resarched natural supplements and vits to help me along. i think maybe (big maybe though) its time to try something different. today i feel good, tomorrow, well .... i hope so.
Peace to all who listened.
back in high school i was very popular, after high school just as or even more. i had no anxieties what so ever. never second guessing myself, never self concious and above all, never shy. i loved meeting new people. i got into a scene where to me i believe was the begging of the end for me. i was heavy into raves and rave culture. i took shit loads of ecstacy and other drugs. it's been a couple of years now since i've partied like that, but the long term sides are here. my thinking is different, i'm not so secure anymore with myself, not confident like i used to be, not nearly as social as i used to be. maybe times do change and people change. i just look back at a time where is was really happy and wished i was that person again.
i do believe that drugs are too easly perscribed. i went in to talk to someone about things and on my first visit he wanted me on something. he said it would clear my mind. i didn't take it, i thought it was too soon. he didn't even really listen. maybe i could have talked it out. i also believe that environment plays a big role in personality and growth.
i've resarched natural supplements and vits to help me along. i think maybe (big maybe though) its time to try something different. today i feel good, tomorrow, well .... i hope so.
Peace to all who listened.
Steroid_Virgin
New member
i have said it before, and I will say it again... SSRI's are mind altering drugs.. they change the way you perceive the world.. stay the fuck away from them.. they dont make your problems dissapear, they just give you new ones
Steroid_Virgin
New member
alphaxi said:
Hmm thats the second time you agreed with me today... I'm starting to like you alpha... you like Italians?
musclebrains
New member
buddy28 said:
I know perfectly well what social anxiety is and, as a practitioner, I also know a huge number of people who don't qualify for the diagnosis are receiving it -- in the same way bored and distracted kids get ADHD diganoses and everyone who takes steroids is now diagnosed as suffering muscle dysmorphia.
Not everyone is you, Buddy. Many people do not respond at all to cognitive therapy. Some don't respond to drug therapy either. There is a large portion of the human population fated to a rather melancholic existence.
Dread Lord Good Guy
New member
brain drugs fixs brain problems when drug is used
Fact.
Stupid fuckers.
Fact.
Stupid fuckers.
musclebrains
New member
alphaxi said:
This is simply not true when depression (or any of the other disorders Buddy has pointed out) is chemical. Many cases of clinical depression occur quite independent of negative life circumstances. In such cases, the problem is the depression, not circumstances in one's life. Obviously, if a drug "fixes" the source of the depression, the problem itself disappears too -- because the problem is the chemistry.
Dread Lord Good Guy
New member
musclebrains is right
Stupid Fuckers.
Stupid Fuckers.
musclebrains said:
Ok..maybe you are right. And I DO see what you mean...but where do you draw the line? How do you tell if someone is clinically depressed and actually needs the medicine or if they are just "going thru a rough patch" and need a quick remedy/excuse for their behavior and feelings.
I have been depressed before...for a long period of time actually. But I never got to the point where I needed a pill to make me feel better about my problems or myself. I simply worked through my problems...and I am now the happiest I have ever been.
Dread Lord Good Guy
New member
what is wrong with helping some one who is going through rough shit,,,,
to make them feel better (normal ) and then when things are better for them,,,, they can choose to quit the drug(s)
I AM SAYING
SO WHAT IF people use drugs to be happy.... SO WHAT...
life = short so
life=happy or UNHAPPY
I choose happy.
to make them feel better (normal ) and then when things are better for them,,,, they can choose to quit the drug(s)
I AM SAYING
SO WHAT IF people use drugs to be happy.... SO WHAT...
life = short so
life=happy or UNHAPPY
I choose happy.
musclebrains
New member
alphaxi said:Ok..maybe you are right. And I DO see what you mean...but where do you draw the line? How do you tell if someone is clinically depressed and actually needs the medicine or if they are just "going thru a rough patch" and need a quick remedy/excuse for their behavior and feelings.
I have been depressed before...for a long period of time actually. But I never got to the point where I needed a pill to make me feel better about my problems or myself. I simply worked through my problems...and I am now the happiest I have ever been.
A couple of points:
First of all, people often have absurd ideas about antidepressants. I do agree that they affect perception, as someone here said. But, if you are depressed enough to really need the drug, you are already so cognitively fucked up by the depression that you don't notice the perceptual change. If the drug works and the depression lifts, you feel a thousand times better. Then, when they go off the drug successfully, many do notice a subtle shift in perception. This is difficult to describe. It's almost like the lens on your perception becomes a bit sharper.
The idea that these drugs give you a recreational-type high, make you foolishly happy, attract bluebirds to sing on your shoulders is absurd. They just make it possible to function better, sometimes in a number of ways. People who have not been suicidally depressed really should not generalize their experience with lesser depression to those with seriousl clinical diagnoses.
As to where to draw the line, that's why an individual should see a psychiatrist rather than go into his GP for treatment for depression. The latter often know squat and pass out SSRIs like candy. It must make them less depressed to do so.
If your depression is reactive, meaning it is the result of life circumstances (including, say, unconscious conflicts that have become symptomatic), a drug is not necessarily a good choice. It is true, however, that drugs like Paxil can make ordinary grief more bearable. I have very mixed feelings about their use in such circumstances. Should we, for example, dump Paxil in the NYC water supply because the city's population is generally rather depressed?
Not all "problems" can be "worked through." This is the great myth of psychology. Many people, even if their life circumstances aren't bad, simply have melancholic temperaments. This used to not be considered a "bad" thing. Peter Kramer makes the point than many of the world's masterpieces, including Beethoven's music, would likely not have been written had their composers been fed Prozac. Our culture has adopted a view that "happiness" is our birthright and that people with dark vision are sick and need drugs. In fact, those who see in the dark, so to speak, often have the most to teach us.
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musclebrains said:
Musclebrains, if you knew what social anxiety was, you wouldnt have made the blanket statement " But in a culture that has turned *shyness* into a disorder called "social anxiety"....". Im going to assume that u were expressing ur frustration over the pervasive overdiagnosis in the medical community of some clinical mental disorders, and not take it personally.
However, I think as a practioner, you have an obligation to your patients and urself to assess your theraputic philosphey to determine if its accurately diagnosing effective solutions to real problems.
I say this because I know your own theraputic philisophy isnt the norm. Im not saying its wrong, but you have to recognize at some point that your own expectations for patient improvement will dictacte to some extent, how well they improve. If you expect each patient that walks in the door with clinical depression to never recover, the unconscious signals you give off, both verbal and nonverbal, will contribute to the perpetuation of illness in some patients.
Its true some people are fated toward a melocholic exsistence. But lets make sure we dont allow more people experience this fate then they have too....
musclebrains
New member
buddy28 said:
You're attributing things to me I simply did not say and won't argue about.
It is true that my philosophy is not the norm among people who are making money off these diagnoses. But, likewise, your personal experience with social anxiety lends anecdotal interest to your claims but it hardly constitutes the "truth." Please don't lecture me about my patients, buddy. I work almost entirely with gifted creative types who have been through the normalizing ringer of professional counseling psychology. Some people can't or won't make sacrifices to your version of happiness because something is more important to them than happiness.
And, by the way, I don't think it's any psychologist's role to determine the fate of character.
digso said:
Digso, I hear ya. E isnt the best drug u could be taking. Ive taken it myself quite a few times. Basically, it weakens your serotongenic neuronal pathways. Serotonin is partially responsible for modulating emotion (ex self confidence/wellbeing), learning, memory and other behavours. The best I can liken it too, is remember that crumby feeling the day after you come down from E?? This "crumby" feeling is a result of depleted serotonin levels. Theoritcally, if you do E enough times, serotongenic neuronal pathways will begin to degrade and the feelings of well-being and confidence will become less prominent.
BUt there is good news, your brain can change, and you can get better. It would be good to talk to a doctor (psychologist or psychatrist) and cognitive therapy couldnt hurt. Cognitive therapy would be a good start because even though ur intial depression may have been caused by E ingestion, the negative, irrational cognitions about events and your own self worth that are symptomatic of depression, cause depressed people to *act* on their irrational feelings. When people start acting on their irrational depressed feelings, (ex "Im no good , so I wont go out"), their behavours begin to reinforce their irrational beleifs or begin to strengthen their depression. Cognitive therapy will help your brain begin to question the irrational assumptions that have been developing.
Heres a link to my post on X and brain damage:
http://209.11.101.244/forum/showthread.php?threadid=74040
musclebrains said:
MuscleBrains, interestingly enough, comprehensive cognitive behavioral therapy is clinically proven to be the most effective treatment for social anxiety. My anecdotal evidence is supported by sound clinical trials. So I’m confused as to how my version of the correct treatment for social anxiety deviates from your "truth"??
I’m not lecturing you about your patients, but you’ve alluded in many posts that some mental disorders are incurable, and that many people have accepted the false philosophy of being entitled to perpetual personal happiness. Its not hard to deduce that your own personal feelings about how humans are supposed to feel, dictate your therapeutic methods, and therefore patient recovery.
No offense, but your assumption that your patient’s emotional goals are significantly different from the general population is questionable. At the end of the day, whatever piece, painting, poem ect your patients work on, however deep and transcending it is, it evokes a feeling of *happiness* and *self-accomplishment* in the artist. Your patients may go around achieving happiness a different way, but they have the same emotional ends the rest of us normal folks have. And if you, as their therapist, can somehow allow them to experience more of this happiness, even if it is done through seemingly unconventional or "blase" methods, then you’ve undoubtedly added to their quality of life.
I have a question for you. Are you happy as a person??
musclebrains
New member
buddy28 said:
LOL. I love the way you preface presumptive statements with "no offense" when you mean no such thing. No offense, buddy, but you are truly showing your cognitive, um, single-mindedness. I never said anything about mental >>>"disorders"<<< being incurable. I question the designation of character as disorder and we disagree on that -- as do many other practitioners. You really seem unable to discern these distinctions and you practice that tedious argument that attempts to sabotage a generalization with an exception, as if statistical deviation disproves a theory. Anyway, it's pure hubris for you to speak for my patients and I won't even go to the absurdity of lecturing me about my philosophy without even making inquiries about it.
We've already had the discussion about cognitive therapy. I see no point in arguing with you about it again. It is one of over 200 forms of therapy, all of which claim to work. The difference in cognitive therapy is that it is standardized and can be effectively measured. Is there some reason to have this discussion again?
As for your final question. I don't ask it of myself. I have a very rewarding, full life.
musclebrains said:
You alluded that some conditions were incurable, or couldnt be "worked out".
________
"Not all "problems" can be "worked through." This is the great myth of psychology. Many people, even if their life circumstances aren't bad, simply have melancholic temperaments"
________
The problem seems to lie in how we define a mental disorder. You seem to contest, and yes I understand, that some symptoms characteristic of mental disorders are the natural expression of normal personality traits that mental health workers have patholigized. Sure, thats cool. But how does that help your patients??! And arnt we working on a continum??
Maladapative traits that arnt especially detrimental to a persons wellbeing could be viewed as naturaly occuring personality traits. But when the traits become increasingly maladaptive to the individual and signifcantly threaten their emotional and physical wellbeing, then its important to identify these conditions and "normalize" them with expediency. The only real debate lies in the grey area bordering "normal" cognition and currently accepted "pathologized" cognition.
As far as sabotaging an argument with an exception, youll have to give me examples.
Because Ive been through the trauma of a mental disorder, my empathy is for the patient and not the Dr's faithfulness to a theraputic philosophy which provides medicore results. Thats the real question, is your patient quality of life improving due to ur theraputic technique??
Since you suggested that perpetual sadness is inherent trait in some personalitys, then what motivation is there for the therapist to reduce to this sadness? There is none. And this is all assumed from what youve written. Im postulating theraputic outcomes and questioning their fundamental assumptions because of the emotional implications it has for the patient.
Oh yea, and the "no offense" was intended to offend. I find it offensive when people attempt to trivialize social anxiety as persistent shyness. You claim you know social anxiety inside and out, then you trivialize its symptoms by claiming its simply a pathologization of shyness. Which one is it ??
you know what guys, I'm not ready to take drugs for what I'm going through. I think my spirit needs to be uplifted a little bit and I need to involve myself in positive social activities. I have great friends and family that will always support me no matter what. the last quote by "alphaxi" (I'd post it if I knew how) made a lot of sense to me ...... thanks brutha!
funny thing though ...... my girlfriend and friends see me as what I wish I could be, but my anxieties tell me different.
last word: I will win!
you guys are on your own, this post has got to crazy for me, it was only a simple question.
funny thing though ...... my girlfriend and friends see me as what I wish I could be, but my anxieties tell me different.
last word: I will win!
you guys are on your own, this post has got to crazy for me, it was only a simple question.
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