Pat/Par: 1-Test versus 1-AD - Oral and Transdermal

[Fortes]

Okay, I've been thinking lately about some stuff.

I strongly believe that 1-AD is MORE POTENT ORALLY than 1-Test.

Why? Because the liver converts the 1-AD into 1-Test during the first pass, but (my guess is that) it will serve to do NOTHING for 1-Test alone (on the second pass or after oral ingestion) but deactivate it.

Primo has been cited on this board as having a 13.4% oral activity. If what Pat is saying about 1-Test being as BV as Primo is, then one would have to ingest 300 mg a day of the stuff to get 40 mg. of functioning androgen into the bloodstream. Now, my GUESS is that 1-AD converts at a much higher rate into 1-Test (maybe 20-40%). That would mean that 300 mg/day of 1-AD would turn over 60 to 120 mg. of functional androgen into the bloodstream.


Now, let's take transdermal delivery. With Par Deus's "ONE", a daily dosage is 200 mg. of 1-Test transdermally. Assuming a 50% delivery rate (optomistic methinks), we're getting 100 mg. of 1-test into the bloodstream, functioning, every day. That's a damn good amount of androgen, and plus, there is no first pass.

Now if you take 1-AD and mix it into a transdermal solution, there is notable a disadvantage, because the LIVER SERVES TO CONVERT THE 1-AD INTO FUNCTIONAL ANDROGEN DURING THE FIRST PASS. The conversion rate of 1-AD in other body tissue is probably much lower, and even if it were just as high as previously assumed for the liver (20-40%), after 50% of it got across the various dermal barriers (stratum corneum, etc.), that 50% would STILL HAVE TO CONVERT TO BE ACTIVE - this is assuming that the 1-AD transfered across the dermal barrier at the same rate as assumed for the 1-Test.

So, if we apply 200 mg. of 1-AD to the skin, 100 of it gets across, and 40% of it gets converted in tissue, we end up with 40 mg. gross functional androgen in the bloodstream per 200 mg. applied. That's less than half as efficacious as "ONE."

So, you may be asking, what the hell was the point of all that?

1) If you want to go TRANSDERMAL, USE ONE.

2) If you want to go ORAL, USE 1-AD.

But I may be completely wrong . . . Pat, Par, any thoughts?

Oh yeah, and both you guys, anything new and cool in developement? How 'bout a legal androgen that doesn't make my hair fall out? Maybe some methylated/ethylated 4-AD? PLEASE!!!!!!



But I may be entirely wrong. Pat, Par, what do you think about all this?

 

[Par Deus]

I would be shocked if ONE got 50% delivery with real world usage. I have estimated 25% for our delivery system based originally on comparisons with Androsol and then with 1-test taken orally (which leads me to believe it is higher or 1-test oral estimates should be lower), but that IS just an estimate.

There is not direct data on the combination of penetration enhancers, just the individual ones, so one ends up having to look at it somewhat qualitatively rather than quantitatively.

I am putting something together on all of the various 1-test delivery systems, which should allow me to estimate more accurately, but I have not finished it yet.

I do not know if 1-AD is actually stronger mg/mg than 1-test, orally, but it certainly has held up far better than originally expected (except perhaps by PA) -- I would think for the reasons you stated -- and it is less expensive.

 

[pa1ad]

Okay, I've been thinking lately about some stuff.

I agree with your general statement that 1-AD is stronger than 1-test when both are taken by the oral route, while by the transdermal route the reverse is true