Parents!!!! What do you think???

[Temple]

Here's the deal... I have a 9 year old. One of the churches here (we live in a very small town) has turned Wednesday night church school into the social event of the week for the under 13 set.
I consider myself a Christian..sort of, basically I describe my self as an eclectic in that I believe that all religions are equally valid and that each of us has to come to our own relationship with our creator. I am perfectly comfortable kneeling at any alter but prefer to kneel at my own. I refuse to have any one church define something as sacred as my relationship with God. I don't have any issue with Christianity but have HUGE issues with how churches and people tend to use it as a weapon.

Now for my dilema. My 9 year old wants to go to church school along with all her friends. I am fine with that as what she will learn will be part of what I hope will be a search for her own beliefs. The church, however, has figured out that if they can get all these kids begging to go to church school, they can then have them assigned to Sunday church duties...ushers, candlelighter etc. and have them do programs and sings most Sundays and if they do this they will get ALL the parents to church whether they want to be there or not. Not only to the get you into church but the next thing you know you are on the prayer chain and are getting calls to cook for every dinner, funeral and special event that comes along. This offends the hell out of me. On one hand I feel like if I don't like it then just tell my daughter no church school and if my child is going to participate in something as a parent I need to support it. I have no problem with financial support or helping with actual church school activities etc. but I feel like I am attending church with a gun held to my head.

So, am I just being a bitch or do you think I have a right to be a little crabby about what they are doing??? How would you handle it???

 

[fogg88]

I think you're perfectly justified in your feelings. That's pretty shitty of the church to do that; and I can just see the smug-ass church leaders sitting back thinking they're all clever.

Maybe you should just set up your own ongoing Sunday event for your family. That way you can get both yourself and your daughter out of getting roped-into extra duties.

 

[WODIN]

I would draw a line with the church service related activities. If that isn't going to work, then fuck em! That would be my position.

 

[supertech69]

See that is exactly why I can't stand organized religion. I agree with you, a lot of churches are very pushy. That's why I don't go I've attempted to go regularly on several different occasions at various churches & after a few weeks they are buggin the hell out of oyu to be a "member" of their church. This means that they want you to give all of your free time to them. I am all for helping someone in need but, I am not going to spend every minute I have doing it. It becomes bothersom after a while. I have 2 kids & am not sure how I would handle that problem. You hate to tell them no but, you also don;t want them to be tied to something like that. I'd say just let him/her know what is probably going to be expected of them & give them thenegatives along with the positive & see how they decide.

 

[Longhorn85]

Here's the deal... I have a 9 year old. One of the churches here (we live in a very small town) has turned Wednesday night church school into the social event of the week for the under 13 set.
I consider myself a Christian..sort of, basically I describe my self as an eclectic in that I believe that all religions are equally valid and that each of us has to come to our own relationship with our creator. I am perfectly comfortable kneeling at any alter but prefer to kneel at my own. I refuse to have any one church define something as sacred as my relationship with God. I don't have any issue with Christianity but have HUGE issues with how churches and people tend to use it as a weapon.

Now for my dilema. My 9 year old wants to go to church school along with all her friends. I am fine with that as what she will learn will be part of what I hope will be a search for her own beliefs. The church, however, has figured out that if they can get all these kids begging to go to church school, they can then have them assigned to Sunday church duties...ushers, candlelighter etc. and have them do programs and sings most Sundays and if they do this they will get ALL the parents to church whether they want to be there or not. Not only to the get you into church but the next thing you know you are on the prayer chain and are getting calls to cook for every dinner, funeral and special event that comes along. This offends the hell out of me. On one hand I feel like if I don't like it then just tell my daughter no church school and if my child is going to participate in something as a parent I need to support it. I have no problem with financial support or helping with actual church school activities etc. but I feel like I am attending church with a gun held to my head.

So, am I just being a bitch or do you think I have a right to be a little crabby about what they are doing??? How would you handle it???

Kind of sounds like you want your child to enjoy the benefits of attending church without becoming a part of it yourself. Many parents drop their kids off at church and then pick them up later without getting involved themselves. I think you will miss out on a lot. Eventually your child will bring what she is learning home and you will have to confront your own beliefs and make a decision. I disagree with your statement about all religions being alike. Does Wiccan = Baptist? Catholic = Mormon. Not at all.

 

[SofaGeorge]

Temple01,

Ocam's razor - look for the simplest answer.

That is their PLAN, but there is a flaw in the plan. Your kid would love to go to the Wednesday night social event. Your kid will also probably NOT be as interested in the Sunday stuff. She may not want to go at all.

As a 9 year old, you would have to drag me screaming and kicking to get me to a Sunday church service. I would have happily gone to the Wednesday night social with the other kids.

I think reality is going to defeat this church's game plan.

Just my 2 cc.

 

[fogg88]

Re: Re: Parents!!!! What do you think???

I disagree with your statement about all religions being alike. Does Wiccan = Baptist? Catholic = Mormon. Not at all.

I don't think he was saying all religions are the same; just that they're equally valid. Obviously, buddhism and christianity are very different, but seeing as how there are many times more buddhists than christians, who are we to say that their religion is absolutely wrong and ours is absolutely right?

 

[madbomber31]

find a boys & girls club in your area...

or send the kid to church with her friends... that way, you cannot approve anything and have NOTHING to do with the church.

 

[fogg88]

As a 9 year old, you would have to drag me screaming and kicking to get me to a Sunday church service. I would have happily gone to the Wednesday night social with the other kids.
.

Ha!Ha! ...same for me. Actually, when I was a kid, my mom had to bribe me to behave and sit still during church. If I could be good for four Sundays in a row, she'd take me to the store and let me pick out a toy. It worked!

 

[Longhorn85]

Re: Re: Re: Parents!!!! What do you think???

there are many times more buddhists than christians, who are we to say that their religion is absolutely wrong and ours is absolutely right?

There are more non-capitalists than capitalists and I say capitalism is the way to go.

There are more non-democratic countries than democratic and I say democracy is the way to go.

There are more non-Christians that Christians and I say Christianity is the way to go.

 

[fogg88]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Parents!!!! What do you think???

There are more non-capitalists than capitalists and I say capitalism is the way to go.

There are more non-democratic countries than democratic and I say democracy is the way to go.

There are more non-Christians that Christians and I say Christianity is the way to go.

cool that.

I can respect your opinion.

 

[Temple]

Re: Re: Parents!!!! What do you think???

Kind of sounds like you want your child to enjoy the benefits of attending church without becoming a part of it yourself. Many parents drop their kids off at church and then pick them up later without getting involved themselves. I think you will miss out on a lot. Eventually your child will bring what she is learning home and you will have to confront your own beliefs and make a decision. I disagree with your statement about all religions being alike. Does Wiccan = Baptist? Catholic = Mormon. Not at all.

That is the problem. I don't care if my child is getting the "benefit" of the church or not. I feel that at 9 a child is old enough to start making decisions about their own religious path. I will guide her, I will tell her what I believe but it is up to her to formulate what she believes. I am very clear on what I believe BTW.
I won't argue religious beliefs with you or anyone - I believe the greatest sin of all is to try and alter another's relationship with their God. For me, when you read the writings of everything from Pagan to Christian to Buddhism in the spirit in which they were written rather than the literal translations of each they are very similar.

 

[Temple]

Temple01,

Ocam's razor - look for the simplest answer.

That is their PLAN, but there is a flaw in the plan. Your kid would love to go to the Wednesday night social event. Your kid will also probably NOT be as interested in the Sunday stuff. She may not want to go at all.

As a 9 year old, you would have to drag me screaming and kicking to get me to a Sunday church service. I would have happily gone to the Wednesday night social with the other kids.

I think reality is going to defeat this church's game plan.

Just my 2 cc.

SG - that's what I thought too, but they have done one hell of a sales job on these kids. They have made it SO special and such an Honor that they have them fighting over who gets to light the candles and the kids really get into doing the programs a couple times a month. The simplest answer is NO church school and this is why...

 

[Longhorn85]

Re: Re: Re: Parents!!!! What do you think???

I feel that at 9 a child is old enough to start making decisions about their own religious path.

Then why do you feel that the church is doing a "sales job" on her? Maybe she really understands, believes and is enthusiastic about what she is doing.

 

[Temple]

Notice I used the word "start" and yes, I think it is possible that she understands and is enthusiastic which is fine. The problem I have is that the church's motives do not seem to be as pure as the childs.

 

[Longhorn85]

Notice I used the word "start" and yes, I think it is possible that she understands and is enthusiastic which is fine. The problem I have is that the church's motives do not seem to be as pure as the childs.

Well you asked for the opinion of other parents, and you got mine. I hope it all works out for you.

 

[GinNJuice]

Hmmmm, if they can get more parents in on Sunday, they get more donations right?

..... sounds like a ploy to make more money.

........ does the pastor need a new mercedes?

 

[Temple]

Well you asked for the opinion of other parents, and you got mine. I hope it all works out for you.

and to a certain extent I agree with you which is why I am struggling with this.
If your kid is in girl scouts ya saddle up and support the girl scouts
if your kid plays soccer you become a soccer mom
but does my child participating in church school mean that I am only obligated to support church school or does it mean that I have to become a full fledged active member of the church as a whole???

 

[Longhorn85]

and to a certain extent I agree with you which is why I am struggling with this.
If your kid is in girl scouts ya saddle up and support the girl scouts
if your kid plays soccer you become a soccer mom
but does my child participating in church school mean that I am only obligated to support church school or does it mean that I have to become a full fledged active member of the church as a whole???

My opinion is biased because I have kids involved in church and I am quite involved too. If it is a good church, and it sounds like a good one but I couldn't tell you for sure cuz I've never been, they will offer great stuff for the kids, but it is not for fun and enjoyment alone, they are about salvation. If they can reach the parents through the kids, they will try to do that also. It is their charter and I don't think they try to disguise or hide that. I know it makes many uncomfortable.

If someone calls or visits, I would just tell them straight up: "hey, I appreciate your kids program and my daughter/son really enjoys it, but please don't become pushy with me. I may attend occasionally but it is not my intent to become immersed in your church at this time." They will back off.

You should also keep in mind however, that the program that your child enjoys is probably resource intensive, and the monies to support that does come from members. Monies donated to a church go to support the infrastructure of the church to include salaries, mortgage, etc. A good church has regular business meetings at which any member can see how every single dollar is being spent.

 

[Y_lifter]

I'll take the high road on this one...

One of the JOBS of the Church is to Grow, teach/direct it's members in Service to GOD and to teach how to live a Christian life.

Being a member of a church should include doing something to
contribute to the success of that goal.

You have choosen to attend or join a church.
You can learn and live a christian life without going to church but
if you decide to attend one you should understand that you are part of a church family.

Now as far as what contributing means...

For some it is simply attending and being part of the service and also giving of your offerings as in whatever $ you can.

For others it is actually doing things for the church.
Yard work, ushers, alter boy/girl, choir etc.

The church may ask for you to participate, but in no way are you being pressured to do so. I have been asked after only 1 year of membership to be a board member/deacon and simply stated that I was not ready YET to do so but would like to be asked again in the near future when I knew more people etc.

Final comment is one of experience.

You will find that one of the Best ways IMO to grow and learn what is is to be a christan is to not only attend a church and be around fellow christians, but to serve that church in whatever capacity you feel comfortable with.. Either financialy or physically.

 

[Y_lifter]

Temple, Any news on this issue ?

I thought about it over the W/E, and If this Church is indeed using the high pressure tactics and making you uncomfortable,
don't give up. Try a different church.
Also don't assume that they are going to use these tactics just because you have seen them used at other churches.

Not all of them pressure you to do more than you are capable of doing. Yes, they will ask you to contrubute but they should also
realize that everyone does this differently.

The last Church we were members of had built a Huge new Sanctuary and over spent it's budget.
Shortly there after they started practically harrasing the members to give more $.
Calling late at night, asking for more and more.

We left, and have found a Small Church that is not looking to show off how big and fancy it is.

 

[Longhorn85]

We left, and have found a Small Church that is not looking to show off how big and fancy it is.

When you left, did you inform the pastor or deacons the reason for leaving? If more folks do this it may lead to changing their ways or leadership.

 

[Temple]

Yes, we talked about this over the weekend and my daughter isn't as wild about going to church as I thought that she was. My neice spent two hours crying before church yesterday because she didn't have her part memorized so she isn't that thrilled with this either. The conclusion that we came to is that I will talk to the church school teacher this week and tell her that I didn't realize that regular church attendance would be a part of Wed night church school. That our daughter enjoys the Wed night program however, we do not wish to be a part of the Sunday services and if that is a part of it then our daughter will not be attending the Wed program. We will support the Wed program in any way that is needed.

 

[Y_lifter]

Originally posted by ttlpkg
When you left, did you inform the pastor or deacons the reason for leaving? If more folks do this it may lead to changing their ways or leadership.

Yes we did.. Very politely.
I referenced to him that they(Finance Committie) had called at 9:30 PM to ask for a signed specific $ tithe pledge commitement on 2 occasions within 2 months.
50% of this Presbytarian church were CPA's, and were apparently more into $'s and budgets than Religion...

Temple.. Good plan.
Explain to them that you are willing to help and participate, but you have limits as to what you can do...