OSAMA bin Laden: PATRIOT

[MattTheSkywalker]

Hey!

Why are we prostituting Osama bin Laden as the mastermind of all this terrorism stuff? The guy is actually a heck of an American patriot!

Shouldn't we be setting up his veteran's benefits and pension instead? Wasn't he a CIA employee? He gets retirement pay right?

He fought a war inline with American interests against the USSR. We didn't have the balls to do it ourselves, but OBL stepped right up. And, the mujahedin WON! They sent the Soviets packing!!

If all our CIA agents were as good as OBL, they might not get murdered in prison uprisings. I'll be looking for Osama's talk show on Al-Jazeera pretty soon.

what do you think of that?

 

[Frackal]

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

read me

 

[gymnpoppa]

Surprisingly a very small percentage of the American public even know he's CIA-trained. Or the caves we're hunting him in, were fortified with US money.

Apparently it's okay to make these kinds of moves, because we can't hold the government responsible.

I say overhaul the political system. i think we should setup a democracy.....a government for the people.

 

[OMEGA]

I say overhaul the political system. i think we should setup a democracy.....a government for the people. [/B][/QUOTE]

you are/nt the only one.

however the people are too ideologically divided, and have accepted to many contradictions by the powers that be to actually make this a reality.

 

[Warik]

I say overhaul the political system. i think we should setup a democracy.....a government for the people.

Good Lord NO! Democracies are awful forms of government. Democracies = JUST above socialisms/communisms. Some say that democracy is simply socialism in disguise.

Look at the Democratic party. Imagine everything they want to exist actually existing. Sound like a shitty country? Guess what - that's democracy for you.

When you cater to the majority you are catering to the lowest common denominator. When you cater to the lowest common denominator, you get fucked unless you are part of the lowest common denominator - and that sucks too.

-Warik

 

[StoneColdGold]

I'd have to agree with Winston Churchill: Democracy is a terrible form of government, until you compare it with everything else.

look, i'd like to have a benevolent philospher-king with his circle of trusted companions running the whole show. but to say that democracy is bad because it caters to the least common denomintor doesn't make sense. if want to live better, then we need to raise that least common denomintor.... not start catering only to the elite.

of course, this country isn't a democracy, its a republic. but there's not really anything that can be done about that anyway.

 

[OMEGA]

Good Lord NO! Democracies are awful forms of government. Democracies = JUST above socialisms/communisms. Some say that democracy is simply socialism in disguise.

Look at the Democratic party. Imagine everything they want to exist actually existing. Sound like a shitty country? Guess what - that's democracy for you.

When you cater to the majority you are catering to the lowest common denominator. When you cater to the lowest common denominator, you get fucked unless you are part of the lowest common denominator - and that sucks too.

-Warik

thats exactley what the British empire , the Roman empire, and all Monarchies said regarding the masses.

When the elite shore up there wealth, and erect walls to secure their empire, and steal the peoles wealth, and dupe them in poitics, education, and other realm, how can you blame them for being dumb...they were never given a chance.

now I do not believe in Utopias, and i do believe that there is a natural aristocracy, and elite but this does not guve them the right to controll everything.

have you ever studied supposed "demorcratic socialists countries" in depth. their economies are healthy, diverse, not to mention, they have a month off paid vacation.

2 qoutes that you should think about.

1 those who blind the peoples eyes, reproach them for their blindness.

2 for the world to survive, there will have to be some form of socialism....... Albert Einstien

 

[gymnpoppa]

Good Lord NO! Democracies are awful forms of government. Democracies = JUST above socialisms/communisms. Some say that democracy is simply socialism in disguise.

Look at the Democratic party. Imagine everything they want to exist actually existing. Sound like a shitty country? Guess what - that's democracy for you.

When you cater to the majority you are catering to the lowest common denominator. When you cater to the lowest common denominator, you get fucked unless you are part of the lowest common denominator - and that sucks too.

-Warik

Maybe I'm misunderstood here, I'm not talking about the Democratic Party......I'm talking about a government for the people. Which would be one that the administration/leadership is accountable to the people.

The Constitution is distorted and bent to suit whoever is in office, so that would have to be redone also. Eliminate the ability of big business to control legislation, laws, and politicians.
Focus on education, family, and homeland issues. Yes, the economy will suffer, but I don't care for a globalization effort to acquire more money, and squeeze other countries for labor, and their products.

Living and letting others live becomes more important as I grow older. An old man once told me, all money isn't good money.

 

[StoneColdGold]

Also... the Democratic Party isn't synonymous with "Democracy." I agree... if the Democrats had everything their way this country would go to shit. But its hardly fair to equate left-wing policy with the theory of democracy.

 

[the nature boy]

oh man I wish I wasn't so drunk I'd get into this thread lickity split!!

 

[DcupSheepNipples]

Wasn't he a CIA employee?

Bin Laden was backed by Saudi Arabia. All he did was supply Saudi Money for the Mujahedin Freedom Fighters and do picture opps with AK47's In Afgan. The CIA helped them with Stingers, logistics and projects such as Tora Bora. Thus they were able to perfect Hit and Run raids on the Soviet Union troops, who were sitting ducks with there Conventional Training. Still to this day he is just a figure head in Al-Qaeda. But what people are over looking with regards to him is that he want's to take over Saudi Arabia. Then Kuwait, Iraq, Yemen etc etc. The US is in his way to do this. He has almost the same objectives of Saddam Hussein. Which is to control Middle East Oil. The end result in his mind is to create a Religous war to help him rise up in power.

 

[OMEGA]

oh man I wish I wasn't so drunk I'd get into this thread lickity split!!

word.....I am in the same boat, and I am tired

 

[gymnpoppa]

Also, I'm not impressed with a blatant disregard for laws, US, or Geneva convention. There is no way I'll be convinced that this was necessary to prevent other attacks, especially when the idiots making the changes have no experience at it.

Plus, none of the intelligence agencies have been held accountable for failing to act on repeated warnings, and information regarding attacks. Instead the majority is expected to shoulder the blame. and the financial responsibility for their ineptness. Since the administration feels as though people should be patriotic and spend, let the big corporations who they clearly covet......get the economy online again.

The country is clearly going to shit now. Venture outside the country to England, and share some brews with locals....our opinions of ourselves are self-contained.

Nor do I think it's fair to volunteers (military men and women) to have to put themselves in harm's way every 4-6 years because of a foreign policy that has nothing to do with humanitarian needs of other countries. Selfishness, and greed are not redeeming qualities. Nor is arrogance.

 

[gymnpoppa]

But what people are over looking with regards to him is that he want's to take over Saudi Arabia. Then Kuwait, Iraq, Yemen etc etc. The US is in his way to do this. He has almost the same objectives of Saddam Hussein. Which is to control Middle East Oil. The end result in his mind is to create a Religous war to help him rise up in power.

Very true, his beliefs about the holy land, and our soldiers being stationed there is a particular sore spot. The source of his hate towards us. Saudi Arabia also fears that fundamentalists would overrun them if not for our presence there.

Nature boy, I'm disappointed you're not posting here.

I'm out myself......peace bros.......

 

[the nature boy]

word.....I am in the same boat, and I am tired

bro lets hit this one tomorrow full force and blow some peoples minds. but in reality, gymnpoppa is always like 2 steps ahead of me. which is fine. he drops some good info.

 

[spentagn]

have you ever studied supposed "demorcratic socialists countries" in depth. their economies are healthy, diverse, not to mention, they have a month off paid vacation.

The French would be an example of a "democratic socialist" country. Theirs is possibly the most fucked up, non-diverse economy in the western world. It works for them, but it is nearly impossible for foreigners to do business with them due to their shitty system. For example, it is nearly impossible to fire an employee in France unless he/she is caught doing something illegal. This is another reason why recessions REALLY suck in France, the laws encourage insolvency.

 

[gymnpoppa]

The French would be an example of a "democratic socialist" country. Theirs is possibly the most fucked up, non-diverse economy in the western world. It works for them, but it is nearly impossible for foreigners to do business with them due to their shitty system. For example, it is nearly impossible to fire an employee in France unless he/she is caught doing something illegal. This is another reason why recessions REALLY suck in France, the laws encourage insolvency.

You're suggesting they open up to US coming in, undercutting their people, and implementing backstabbing, cutthroat tactics for a profit in their country?

 

[spentagn]

You're suggesting they open up to US coming in, undercutting their people, and implementing backstabbing, cutthroat tactics for a profit in their country?

The French government owns and operates the tobacco industry. I think they do their own backstabbing and undercutting just fine.

 

[WODIN]

LMAO!!! Matt good thread. I was wondering when someone was going to post something like this, but I did not think it would be you.

 

[gymnpoppa]

The French government owns and operates the tobacco industry. I think they do their own backstabbing and undercutting just fine.

I'm sorry, I lived in Europe for a few years.....the attitudes amongst businesses is nothing like it is here. Maybe at some levels, but the greedy nature so prevalent here is not a staple of business there, nor is it in England, or other countries (Spain)
They suffer from unemployment, etc, like we do, they have a worst economy, but you'd never know it unless you view it from here.

 

[OMEGA]

The French would be an example of a "democratic socialist" country. Theirs is possibly the most fucked up, non-diverse economy in the western world. It works for them, but it is nearly impossible for foreigners to do business with them due to their shitty system. For example, it is nearly impossible to fire an employee in France unless he/she is caught doing something illegal. This is another reason why recessions REALLY suck in France, the laws encourage insolvency.

surley you have pointed out one of the most valid flaws of there system...which is the real inability to fire those who are incompetant, so I guess it would be called responsive accountability.

I agree........I just wish as Toney Blair puts it that we could find a 3rd way, as he calls it.
that blends the productivity, of countries such as our own, with the humaness, and better quality of life( time wise, and socially, specifically limited to Germany, France, and other 'modern' social democracies).

as for it being 'hard to do business" with these countries. I mildley disagree.

for example states, and cities, including are own set up 'charters' for business.

charters are a set of rules and provisions that are created by the community that a business must adopt in order operate in that viscinity. Now in these charters an example of a 'condition' would be environmental rules, that must be followed for the safety of the local people and other things like that.


These charters are set up to combat the essential "life"that feeds a corpoaration, which are maximum profits, through cheap resource allocation, little if any laws to check there practices, and maximum political and legislative influence to asssure their success in the political realm..............these motives are not essentially bad.........they in fact are healthy....


but if left unchecked, and transposed unto a society of individuals.....these individuals would have little say in there affairs. It is not in the nature of the corpoaration to be 'aware' of it's social consequences, and environmental consequences.....this is where charters come in.

so countries like france, and germany..just have "big" chrters that safe guard an entire people from the possible mal pratices of mega corpoartaions,


the WTO and other financial instituions have forced france and othe nations to actually spend less on its population so it would have more free flowing capital that would wind up in the pockets of the few. LESS.....on education, LESS on medical assistance, LESS on trade scholl education...LESS on everything. Also less vacation time.......becuase that's too much free time, that could be used as labor.

and for what??????

can you imagine a tribunal of 3 people deemed "trade experts" have the power to overturn and crush the entire will of a nations people, and it's democratic institutions.........?????

is that right?

does the econmy serve the people, or do people serve the economy.


just discussing......I am not saying I am right

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Wodin,

expect the unexpected when you deal with the Skywalker.


My theory on governement: it does a few things really well, and most things really badly. it exists only to do the things that people don't have time for. Minimize.