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oral insulin
- Thread starter jimbo75
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SlimJim300
New member
Glucophage (metformin) is actually not insulin, nor is it a pancreatic insulin stimulator. What it does is make the body *very* insulin sensitive so your body makes better use of the insulin it produces. I have researched this compound before and it seems to be very safe. It is also impossible to get hypoglycemia using glucophage alone, but when used in conjunction with insulin or a pancreatic insulin stimulator (such as glipizide) the risk is increased even more.
I have considered using this during a mass gain period, but I have not, so I can not give you feedback. The plan was to take 500mg in the morning and 500mg pre-workout (remember, hypoclycemia is not an issue), followed by a high calorie, high protein insulin stimulator (such as a weightgainer formula) with 5g creatine. Thirty minutes to an hour before the meal seems to be the best way to time it.
Many bodybuilders have used metformin with sucess during low carb diets or CKDs because it increases absorption of glucose with less insulin, and helps go back into ketosis faster after a carb meal. It also has sort of an anti-catabolic effect in this situation because it decreases hepatic glucose production -- glucose that would come from amino acids. Some know-it-alls like "Big Cat" Van Mol like to laugh and call this stupid. Assuming metformin (which is a biguanide) works in the same way as rosiglitazone (Avianda - another type of glucose disposal agent) is a mistake. Rosiglitazone is a PPARgamma agonist, and will increase fat gain. Metformin is not a glitazone and is not a PPARgamma agonist, and will not make you fat.
I assume the reason this compound is not used more often is due to misinformation and lack of "trial" in the fitness world.
I have considered using this during a mass gain period, but I have not, so I can not give you feedback. The plan was to take 500mg in the morning and 500mg pre-workout (remember, hypoclycemia is not an issue), followed by a high calorie, high protein insulin stimulator (such as a weightgainer formula) with 5g creatine. Thirty minutes to an hour before the meal seems to be the best way to time it.
Many bodybuilders have used metformin with sucess during low carb diets or CKDs because it increases absorption of glucose with less insulin, and helps go back into ketosis faster after a carb meal. It also has sort of an anti-catabolic effect in this situation because it decreases hepatic glucose production -- glucose that would come from amino acids. Some know-it-alls like "Big Cat" Van Mol like to laugh and call this stupid. Assuming metformin (which is a biguanide) works in the same way as rosiglitazone (Avianda - another type of glucose disposal agent) is a mistake. Rosiglitazone is a PPARgamma agonist, and will increase fat gain. Metformin is not a glitazone and is not a PPARgamma agonist, and will not make you fat.
I assume the reason this compound is not used more often is due to misinformation and lack of "trial" in the fitness world.
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SlimJim300
New member
You may also find this usefull:
http://www.diabetic-help.com/GLUCOPHAGE-METFORMIN .htm
http://www.diabetic-help.com/GLUCOPHAGE-METFORMIN .htm
juve
New member
SlimJim300 said:
Really? This statement will only be true IF glucophage selectively sensitized muscular tissues (given that neural tissues/brain receive their priority in terms of glucose saturation) to the actions of insulin. But adipocytes also become more sensitive to insulin's presense, which is not conducive to weight loss at all. Theoretically if used with PPAR-alpha agonists (fibrates, fish oil) then you the desired effect would be achived, especially in conjunction with resistance training (increase insulin sensitivity and change fatty acid mobilization and allocation).
SlimJim300
New member
Bailey CJ
Metformin--an update.
[ABSTRACT ONLINE]
In: Gen Pharmacol (1993 Nov) 24(6):1299-309
Metformin (dimethylbiguanide) is an antihyperglycaemic drug used to
treat non-insulin dependent diabetes mellitus. It acts in the
presence of insulin to increase glucose utilization and reduce
glucose production, thereby countering insulin resistance. The
effects of metformin include increased glucose uptake, oxidation and
glycogenesis by muscle, increased glucose metabolism to lactate by
the intestine, reduced hepatic gluconeogenesis and possibly a reduced
rate of intestinal glucose absorption. Metformin appears to
facilitate steps in the postreceptor pathways of insulin action, and
may exert effects that are independent of insulin. In muscle,
metformin increases translocation into the plasma membrane of certain
isoforms of the glucose transporter. The effects of metformin are
generally moderate, and do not cause clinical hypoglycaemia or
increased weight gain. Metformin has an antihypertriglyceridaemic
effect and exerts various potentially useful effects on haemostasis.
A risk of lactic acidosis is negligible provided that the
contraindications, particularly renal incompetence are respected.
===
93146515 (REFERENCE 44 OF 110)
Metformin--an update.
[ABSTRACT ONLINE]
In: Gen Pharmacol (1993 Nov) 24(6):1299-309
Metformin (dimethylbiguanide) is an antihyperglycaemic drug used to
treat non-insulin dependent diabetes mellitus. It acts in the
presence of insulin to increase glucose utilization and reduce
glucose production, thereby countering insulin resistance. The
effects of metformin include increased glucose uptake, oxidation and
glycogenesis by muscle, increased glucose metabolism to lactate by
the intestine, reduced hepatic gluconeogenesis and possibly a reduced
rate of intestinal glucose absorption. Metformin appears to
facilitate steps in the postreceptor pathways of insulin action, and
may exert effects that are independent of insulin. In muscle,
metformin increases translocation into the plasma membrane of certain
isoforms of the glucose transporter. The effects of metformin are
generally moderate, and do not cause clinical hypoglycaemia or
increased weight gain. Metformin has an antihypertriglyceridaemic
effect and exerts various potentially useful effects on haemostasis.
A risk of lactic acidosis is negligible provided that the
contraindications, particularly renal incompetence are respected.
===
93146515 (REFERENCE 44 OF 110)
juve
New member
Umm, one abstract outlining pharmacological effect of metformin in muscle specifically says nothing, proves nothing. There are other tissues are susceptible to insulin actions as well - no mention of which in an abstract above. Neither does it say that metformin is implicated in weight loss - rather stable weight maintenance, which would explain it's 'potentially useful effects on haemostasis' whatever the underlining meaning of that is 
SlimJim300
New member
I posted the link for a reason. You can either take my word for it, or sift through the 137 pages yourself. Or ask your mom to do it for you. I never said metformin encourages weight loss. I did say it could give you an advantage when either gaining muscle or losing fat.
Try this: Take 20mg Anavar daily for six weeks. Do not change your diet, do not exercise. See what happens.
Try this: Take 20mg Anavar daily for six weeks. Do not change your diet, do not exercise. See what happens.
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SlimJim300
New member
There aren't that many negatives against Avandia, but enough to make me prefer metformin.
First, unlike metformin, weight gain can occur with Avandia without change in diet or exercise. This would not be a major problem, except that Avandia is a PPARgamma agonist and the weight *could* go towards fat storage. That pretty much knocks it out of the way as far as a cutting cycle goes, but when it comes to bulking, heavy training may help override the fat gain towards muscle gain. Low dose T3 would be a great idea here. Of course, if you are using insulin, similar fat gain may happen regardless unless you have an amazing diet and perfect timing.
Second, Avandia can cause hypoglycemia even if insulin (or a pancreatic insulin stimulator) is not used. Not that this is a major problem, but you might want to take note of it. Really, I don't even know the degree of hypoglycemia Avandia can cause, but surely it's not as dangerous as insulin. When using it with GH, this property may provide an advantage over metformin, especially if you do not use insulin.
Thirdly, Avandia may cause fluid retention, possibly leading to congestive heart failure. Probably not an issue whatsoever -- for a lean, non-diabetic athlete.
Lastly, I have heard that it takes a few weeks before the actions of Avandia really kick in. I do not remember my source for this though.
Personally, if I were using a glucose disposal agent with only AAS I would use metformin hands down. On the other hand, if you are using insulin or GH in conjunction with one, there are many more things to take into consideration, and Avandia may very well be the better choice in this case. I'd do more research on it first though.
First, unlike metformin, weight gain can occur with Avandia without change in diet or exercise. This would not be a major problem, except that Avandia is a PPARgamma agonist and the weight *could* go towards fat storage. That pretty much knocks it out of the way as far as a cutting cycle goes, but when it comes to bulking, heavy training may help override the fat gain towards muscle gain. Low dose T3 would be a great idea here. Of course, if you are using insulin, similar fat gain may happen regardless unless you have an amazing diet and perfect timing.
Second, Avandia can cause hypoglycemia even if insulin (or a pancreatic insulin stimulator) is not used. Not that this is a major problem, but you might want to take note of it. Really, I don't even know the degree of hypoglycemia Avandia can cause, but surely it's not as dangerous as insulin. When using it with GH, this property may provide an advantage over metformin, especially if you do not use insulin.
Thirdly, Avandia may cause fluid retention, possibly leading to congestive heart failure. Probably not an issue whatsoever -- for a lean, non-diabetic athlete.
Lastly, I have heard that it takes a few weeks before the actions of Avandia really kick in. I do not remember my source for this though.
Personally, if I were using a glucose disposal agent with only AAS I would use metformin hands down. On the other hand, if you are using insulin or GH in conjunction with one, there are many more things to take into consideration, and Avandia may very well be the better choice in this case. I'd do more research on it first though.
