Oil

[VicTusDeuS]

This war is about politics and oil. If you people want to do something push for the government finding an alternative energy source. NJ is already working on to get 5-15% of its power from wind turbines. If we all used natural resources for power many of our problems would be solved..

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

This war is about politics and oil. If you people want to do something push for the government finding an alternative energy source. NJ is already working on to get 5-15% of its power from wind turbines. If we all used natural resources for power many of our problems would be solved..

How the fuck is a wind turbine gonna power a car? Or truck or train or ship or anything that gets goods fro point A to point B?

Our economy - our very standard of living - is dependent on oil.
There are few things that correspond more directly to our financial happiness than cheap oil. If oil goes up in price, everything goes up in price.

It's not quite as easy as we all wish it were. Nuclear power is a real choice, which creates tremendous energy, can power a ship and is already in use. But no one seems to want it.

 

[WODIN]

Eventually we will deplete the entire planets oil reserves so developing alternative fuel sources is a must. However it should be a long term goal that transitions slowley from oil dependencies to other fuel types.

 

[VicTusDeuS]

I wasnt talking about powering a car. I was referring to commercial and residential use which probably uses the most. It's not just cars that burn oil for energy...Which is why the economy fluxuates so much with oil..Everything is dependant on it. By using other sources of energy it would cut our dependance of oil. Even a small percentage makes a big difference. Stop trying to be an arrogant know it all.

 

[HUGHJORGEN]

Matt,

How would ou feel aout a price ratio index on food and oil. If they raise the cost of oil 10% we raise the price of food 20% and so on.

Yes we ae dependant on oil, but they cannot feed themselves!

 

[VicTusDeuS]

Eventually we will deplete the entire planets oil reserves so developing alternative fuel sources is a must. However it should be a long term goal that transitions slowley from oil dependencies to other fuel types.

I just dont like how our government complains at oligopolies and monopolies within our own country yet is held by the balls by the oil companies which use monopolistic tactics...

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

I was referring to commercial and residential use which probably uses the most.

wrongo bongo my Garden state bro.

Transportation (ships, trains, planes cars, trucks) is by far the biggest consumer of oil. By light years. It isn't even close.

I'll stop talking down to you when you stop posting things like "why don;t we just do this?"

There are about 87 million reasons we don't 'just do this' or 'just do that' and you never seem to address those. Look into

economic disruption
powerful entrenched intersts

and the basic principle that all oil price increase is passed on to consumers for every single good we ever buy anywhere.

It is not so easy....

 

[spongebob]

Look into

economic disruption



It is not so easy....

i really dont think people comprehend this enough or they wouldnt make such statements as to "why dont we just".

the jobs that are tied to the oil industry is staggering, the entire infrastructure is staggering.

victusdues, explain to me exactly why this war is about oil and not about a country with a bad tract record obtaing and stockpiling weapons of mass destruction.

next explain to me what right the govt. has to tell the oil companies to basically limit thier business, and not buy cheap oil and refine it and sell it. it is a very effecient energy source.

and next, what have you done to limit your use of petroleum based products?

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

i really dont think people comprehend this enough or they wouldnt make such statements as to "why dont we just".

the jobs that are tied to the oil industry is staggering, the entire infrastructure is staggering.

victusdues, explain to me exactly why this war is about oil and not about a country with a bad tract record obtaing and stockpiling weapons of mass destruction.

next explain to me what right the govt. has to tell the oil companies to basically limit thier business, and not buy cheap oil and refine it and sell it. it is a very effecient energy source.

and next, what have you done to limit your use of petroleum based products?

Victus is a good guy. Maybe we are coming down on him too hard.

Oil is not something we can easily extricate from our economy. Everything is oil based, and it is the cheapest, most efficient eenrgy source we have.

Nuclear energy provides greater energy, but waste is an issue, and there are some dangers associated with a nuclear power plant.

Solar energy is unlimited but prohibitively expensive for most applications. It is very difficult, and will one day present problems as the oil dwindles.

 

[spongebob]

Victus is a good guy. Maybe we are coming down on him too hard.

i agree, i think i understand what he really means, which is yes we do need to explore alternatives but it needs to be done over decades to let the economy shift also. but i still dont see it happening for a long time for reasone we already stated. its damn cheap, effecient and the infrstructure is already in place. i just dont see how any oil company would be willing to just quit making all them profits for the sake of less problems internationally. i belive it is the right of those companies to buy and sell its products to make profits. how do you legislate that.

i live right next to some of the largest oil refineries in the nation and my family has depended on them for employment for decades. and thousands and thousands of other families, its the biggest industry here. i just dont see it leaving anytime soon.

 

[the nature boy]

oil companies have large political clout, they fund many many political campaigns. you can put the rest together.

 

[spongebob]

oil companies have large political clout, they fund many many political campaigns. you can put the rest together.

NB, good to see ya.

i understand thier ties to washington, but what will they(exxon, mobil, BP, valero, etc) specifically gain monetarily from the US taking saddam out of power. we already buy oil from them, so what else will they benefit.

 

[the nature boy]

NB, good to see ya.

i understand thier ties to washington, but what will they(exxon, mobil, BP, valero, etc) specifically gain monetarily from the US taking saddam out of power. we already buy oil from them, so what else will they benefit.

excellent point..... but my statement was really directed towards those who mention the use of alternative sources of energy instead of oil. I was pretty vague on my last post there.

good to see you SB.

 

[spongebob]

excellent point..... but my statement was really directed towards those who mention the use of alternative sources of energy instead of oil. I was pretty vague on my last post there.

good to see you SB.

gotcha, totally agree, if i were runnning exxon, two things would be on my agenda. one, do eveything i can to obtain the rights to any alternative fuel source and two, do eveything i can to slow the process of alternatives coming up. that is ofcourse i was a greedy oil man.

where ya been anyways?

 

[HappyScrappy]

I'm looking forward to more development of hydrogen cells.
in the end, that is what you want - hydrogen, and then the oxygen in the air. combine them (burning) and you get water and energy (hence why people refer to water as "burnt hydrogen").

the current hydrogen cells that I know about still use an oil based product to get the hydrogen from (the ones that work reliably), but they are working on better ones and other sources.

this is most applicable in cars, but there are other areas as well.

 

[spentagn]

I've ridden in a bus powered by hydrogen cells. It had a really annoying high pitched whine. I'd rather deplete fossil fuels than put up with that shit.

 

[HappyScrappy]

I can't say I've been around one in action, so I don't know what the whine would be.

I say we take the prisoners and make them run on treadmills.

 

[spongebob]

this is most applicable in cars, but there are other areas as well.

it seems to me that it might would be more applicable in other areas, stationary ones. the storage capacity of the hydrogen would be practically limitless. actually i think you could just use it as its produced. that is just my first thought cause i dont know too much about it. i guess in terms of quantity of combustion engines( all the cars) it would be more applicable.

 

[cockdezl]

Wind power sucks, it is nowheres as efficient or reliable (how do you predict when it will be windy?) as oil or nuclear power. Also, I can't see how the environmentalists favor wind power, since it requires huge tracts of land to implement this type of system.

http://reason.com/rb/rb071002.shtml

I favor alot more nuclear power plants, but there is little chance the enviro-freaks will allow this.

 

[HappyScrappy]

a lot of wind related power sources are saying that they should be on the coastline since there is pretty much always going to be wind there due to the heat exchange.
but I doubt many people will want that on their coastline.

there is also talk of harnessing the power from the waves and there are some cool ideas for that as well.

I still want to harness the energy of our prisoners.

 

[Steroid_Virgin]

Raise the price of gas, and our consumption (i.e reliance) on foreign oil will decrease.. you cannot have the best of both worlds.. as long as we consume more oil than we produce, the middle east will forever be our ball and chain.

You want solutions? Stop driving your SUV's.. use public transportaion, support oil exploration in alaska, support nuclear power, carpool to work, or better yet telecommute, buy a hybrid gas/electric car (toyota prius is a nice car)..

for a better understanding of economics and scarce resources, read "A Wealth of Nations".. great little book.. written by adam smith.

 

[Dr.M]

My dad made hybrid fueled car designs over 30 years ago.

 

[the nature boy]

did you guys hear about the dude who made cars that used water for fuel?

he's dead.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Raise the price of gas, and our consumption (i.e reliance) on foreign oil will decrease.. you cannot have the best of both worlds.. as long as we consume more oil than we produce, the middle east will forever be our ball and chain.

You want solutions? Stop driving your SUV's.. use public transportaion, support oil exploration in alaska, support nuclear power, carpool to work, or better yet telecommute, buy a hybrid gas/electric car (toyota prius is a nice car)..

for a better understanding of economics and scarce resources, read "A Wealth of Nations".. great little book.. written by adam smith.

You're absolutely right.

The thing is, by raising the price of gas, we raise the price of every other good as well, because, as the saying goes "if you bought it, a truck brought it". And the increased price toshippers is passed on to consumers: us.

Most people simply can't afford a gas price increase because of its impact on all goods. It redcues spending, which can have additional adverse impacts on the economy.

COmmercial users of oil can't reduce quite so easily either. It is a huge issue. I do think nuclear power is critical. We need to utilize its enormous energy production capability.

We have gotten ourselves into a fine mess here.

 

[the nature boy]

yeah but hasn't the cost of gasoline been one of the few things that hasn't gone up in price very much in relation to other goods and services?

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

yeah but hasn't the cost of gasoline been one of the few things that hasn't gone up in price very much in relation to other goods and services?

Your post can be interpreted numerous different ways. Can you be more specific or use examples?

 

[Dr.M]

did you guys hear about the dude who made cars that used water for fuel?

he's dead.

Tesla? I remember "magic pills" that were marketed probably in the 30s or 40s, but they were all bunk supposedly.

 

[the nature boy]

Your post can be interpreted numerous different ways. Can you be more specific or use examples?

I'm talking about the cost of gas in the 70's as opposed to now. If I'm not mistaken the rise in cost of gas is much lower than the rate of inflation. Am I making sense, or am I being a total retard here? I've been working very long hours today.

 

[the nature boy]

Tesla? I remember "magic pills" that were marketed probably in the 30s or 40s, but they were all bunk supposedly.

actually it was a joke one of my professors told our class when talking about oil companies.

 

[Tarheel]

I still want to harness the energy of our prisoners.

That is genius!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regarding dependance on oil, I'm not too worried about it.

Every decade of the last century someone has predicted we would run out of oil in X or XX number of years - they've all been wrong.

Oil prices haven't went up much because the technology gets better every day, that allows you to drill deeper and find new oil reserves. When they say "our oil supply will only last __ years" they typically base that on current oil prices, demand, and reserves. If the price of oil gets up to $40 dollars a barrel, based on current consumption and reserves, we'll have enough oil for over 225 more years. As price increases, it becomes economically feasible to drill in areas that at 10 or 15 dollars a barrel it wasn't. Also more expesive drilling techniques become economically feasible.

Not to mention that recent research coming out of Texas A&M says that oil might *not* be a thin layer near the surface that's made of dead dinosaurs, but instead might have been here since creation. This would explain why wells that were pumped dry have been found to refill Very deep within the crust or possibly in the mantel there may be huge oil reserves, unexhaustable. If this is true, then other planets may have oil as well.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

I'm talking about the cost of gas in the 70's as opposed to now. If I'm not mistaken the rise in cost of gas is much lower than the rate of inflation. Am I making sense, or am I being a total retard here? I've been working very long hours today.

NB - Are you in law school? Or was that another guy? If you are, I should tell you that I am still at work reviewing a presentation that one of my lawyers is doing next week at a mediation. I am reviewing a deposition of a former employee of the defendant...and trying to communicate our points more succinctly than she was able to. Suffice it to say I am not all that happy about this, at 11:30 Friday night.

but I digress....

Oil has not increased as dramatically as other goods, you say? well, sounds ppausible, but I would really have to look atthe stats. I remember my parents saying it was very inexpensive when they were younger, but those anecdotal claims aren't evidentiary of a trend.

Technonlogy hasd gotten better to extract it, and it is the kind of effort where an R&D investment tcan reallypay off, because you are selling high-margin products to hoplelessly addicted consumers with unlimited money.


As the lifeblood of our economy, our government, along with others, has used all its leverage to keep prices stable. Still a price increase hurts everyone.


Tarheel - any links to the A&M study? Wouldn't it be funny if it were the demand for oil that spiked the exploration of other planets.

 

[Tarheel]

Different study, same webpage the first info was posted on
http://www.globaltechnoscan.com/7thFeb_13thFeb01/texas.htm

More info from A&M
http://www.detnews.com/2002/nation/0205/16/a15-490839.htm

Cant find the article I got the info for my prior post from though. It was titled "Potential Oil Supply Refill"

Not to mention bio-desiel....

 

[the nature boy]

NB - Are you in law school? Or was that another guy? If you are, I should tell you that I am still at work reviewing a presentation that one of my lawyers is doing next week at a mediation. I am reviewing a deposition of a former employee of the defendant...and trying to communicate our points more succinctly than she was able to. Suffice it to say I am not all that happy about this, at 11:30 Friday night.

but I digress....

Oil has not increased as dramatically as other goods, you say? well, sounds ppausible, but I would really have to look atthe stats. I remember my parents saying it was very inexpensive when they were younger, but those anecdotal claims aren't evidentiary of a trend.

Technonlogy hasd gotten better to extract it, and it is the kind of effort where an R&D investment tcan reallypay off, because you are selling high-margin products to hoplelessly addicted consumers with unlimited money.


As the lifeblood of our economy, our government, along with others, has used all its leverage to keep prices stable. Still a price increase hurts everyone.

no I'm not a lawyer. If I was one, I'd be able to debate you sharks a little better. My younger sister is in UVA law school.... and she's one of those wacky idealists that you hear about. Anyway...

REgarding the cost of gas...... this is pretty amazing. Gas has remained virtually UNCHANGED in price since 1920. Can you beleive that? Totally amazing.

Check this out. http://www2.exxonmobil.com/Corporate/Files/Corporate/gpip.pdf

pay attention to the graph on page 1. Totally stunning.


Then of course I looked some more and some crackpot estimates that the price of gas is really $15.00 a gallon but it's so low due to government subsidies to the oil companies. Kinda crackpot, but it makes you wonder why the cost hasn't gone up at all.

http://www.progress.org/gasoline.htm

 

[the nature boy]

bump for matt