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Oil could hit $100/barrel

mrplunkey said:
Two words: Fuel Ethanol
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Yeah. I know you work in that and all, but I am not sure how we are going to get the biomass infrastructure up and running fast enough as this could take a decade to pull off (enabling cars to use biomass, putting biomass in gas stations, etc). we can't use corn, we probably can't even use any form of agriculture as our major source of biomass. We'll probably have to use algae farms or something like that.
 
The Shadow said:
need to look at hydrogen as a fuel source.....
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need to look at ways to produce cheap hydrogen first.

As it istands right now, it takes as much energy to separate hydrogen from water as it releases, bringing the balance to 0.

solar seems to be the obvious way forward and hybrids as a transition phase
 
The Shadow said:
need to look at hydrogen as a fuel source.....
Click to expand...

Yep. That, plug in hybrids, carbon fiber frames and ethanol should help us dramatically. But hydrogen is 10-20 years away, ethanol already exists.
 
there was a patent for hydrogen fueling in auto in the US that was bought by the Big 3 automakers.
 
Better Smaller More Lasting Electrical storage media would be good as well..

Electric Motors in vehicles can haul ass, have awesome and Immediate Torque
and Acceleration.
 
Y_lifter said:
Better Smaller More Lasting Electrical storage media would be good as well..

Electric Motors in vehicles can haul ass, have awesome and Immediate Torque
and Acceleration.
Click to expand...

Batteries get their power from the utility company....that burned fuel to make the energy. Then lost a lot of energy sending it over the wires.

Not that easy.
 
yeah, hydrogen is not as far off as most think.

the problem with hydrogen is they are trying to find a way to make money off of it.

if they incorporated on board conversion/on demand....then there is no profit to be gained after point of sale. thats why they are looking at cars that are end user vehicles,conversion is done elsewhere and you "fill up" just like gas. the sad part is, there is technology to create it on demand/on board already, water in the tank but thats not profitable, so it won't happen. Since we are already trained to buy at a pump that will be the form that our next vehicle will take. we're conditioned to pay.

just like buying a printer for cheap, the money is in the toner. thats where the companies get you, ongoing renewable overpriced product to use said initial investment.

sheesh!
 
bignate73 said:
yeah, hydrogen is not as far off as most think.

the problem with hydrogen is they are trying to find a way to make money off of it.

if they incorporated on board conversion/on demand....then there is no profit to be gained after point of sale. thats why they are looking at cars that are end user vehicles,conversion is done elsewhere and you "fill up" just like gas. the sad part is, there is technology to create it on demand/on board already, water in the tank but thats not profitable, so it won't happen. Since we are already trained to buy at a pump that will be the form that our next vehicle will take. we're conditioned to pay.

just like buying a printer for cheap, the money is in the toner. thats where the companies get you, ongoing renewable overpriced product to use said initial investment.

sheesh!
Click to expand...

Printer ink is $44,000 a gallon. Profit?
 
test boy ii said:
Batteries get their power from the utility company....that burned fuel to make the energy. Then lost a lot of energy sending it over the wires.

Not that easy.
Click to expand...

True, but you could also use many various methods to produce that electricity(wind, solar, hydro, wave, nuke, etc) all feeding an existing but needing upgraded infrastructure. Vs relying on just fossil or Bio fuel only for transportation uses which eats a huge chunk of Oil.
 
Lao Tzu said:
Yeah. I know you work in that and all, but I am not sure how we are going to get the biomass infrastructure up and running fast enough as this could take a decade to pull off (enabling cars to use biomass, putting biomass in gas stations, etc). we can't use corn, we probably can't even use any form of agriculture as our major source of biomass. We'll probably have to use algae farms or something like that.
Click to expand...
We have pleanty of corn and by the time we actually crunch the corn supply we'll have cellulose technology up and running.

Flex fuel vehicles are being cranked-out even as we speak. E85 is here now.
 
Sassy69 said:
My car is almost paid off. I ain't buying no damn hydrogen car.


I guess I'll be driving a Schwinn.
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You nailed it.

Just think of this... for our "old fart" crowd here at EF, remember the VHS versus Betamax mess? How many people got stuck or know someone who got stuck with Betamax? Now, instead of it being a $300 VCR, imagine it being a $30,000 car -- the 2nd most expensive asset most people own.

Imagine the roll-out needed to get hydrogen in place. Vehicle production, sales, fueling, and OMG.... service? I can see it now... "well your scheduled maintenance was going well until we leaked hydrogen and blew-up the entire service bay. Do you mind that your car is now 'repainted' black? We won't charge you for the flame-job we implemented."

big_hindenburg_explodes_over_lakehurst.jpg


Here we can see an early hydrogen vehicle in action!
 
Y_lifter said:
True, but you could also use many various methods to produce that electricity(wind, solar, hydro, wave, nuke, etc) all feeding an existing but needing upgraded infrastructure. Vs relying on just fossil or Bio fuel only for transportation uses which eats a huge chunk of Oil.
Click to expand...

Totally! I'm all for nuke power. Its safer and cleaner that it was in the 70's and 80's.
 
test boy ii said:
Batteries get their power from the utility company....that burned fuel to make the energy. Then lost a lot of energy sending it over the wires.

Not that easy.
Click to expand...

Coal plants are more efficient than gasoline, you get half the emissions per KJ of energy from a coal plant than gasoline. Coal plants convert 40-60% of chemical energy to mechanical, gas only does 20-25% so you have to burn 2-3x as much gas in your car and produce 2-3x as much CO2 to get the same amount of energy. Plus about 1/3 of the grid is clean burning or renewables. So with a plug in hybrid you are only making about 1/3 as much CO2 emissions for the same amount of energy.
 
Lao Tzu said:
Coal plants are more efficient than gasoline, you get half the emissions per KJ of energy from a coal plant than gasoline. Plus about 1/3 of the grid is clean burning or renewables. So with a plug in hybrid you are only making about 1/3 as much CO2 emissions for the same amount of energy.
Click to expand...

what about the energy used to explore, find, and dig up coal? i'd imagine that it requires a bit of energy
 
Lao Tzu said:
Coal plants are more efficient than gasoline, you get half the emissions per KJ of energy from a coal plant than gasoline. Plus about 1/3 of the grid is clean burning or renewables. So with a plug in hybrid you are only making about 1/3 as much CO2 emissions for the same amount of energy.
Click to expand...
Coal is nasty to burn and it's expensive to deal with. For example, just converting an ethanol plant from natural gas to coal raises the construction cost by around 15%.

Here's an interesting statistic -- Illinois has more coal in it than Saudia Arabia has oil. If it weren't so nasty to extract and burn, we'd be all over it.

So here's the good news. As fuel gets more expensive, coal liquefaction becomes more feasable. It's already making inroads as jet fuel and could be used in more applications as the technology advances.

Thank you and have a great day!
 
Ludendorf said:
what about the energy used to explore, find, and dig up coal? i'd imagine that it requires a bit of energy
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The same applies to oil, but I don't know how much energy goes into either.

Supposedly biomass is starting to become cheaper than coal as a fuel source, which would make coal plants environmentally friendly.
 
http://www.physiology.ucla.edu/faculty/diamond.htm

If the world would start listening to dudes like this guy!! He was up here speaking at a local University and said that Democrats need to accept nuclear energy as the best alternative to global warming.

So, if we could get liberals to get rid of their flower sniffing granola crunching stupid ass "nature fuel" phelosiphies. And if Republicans would stop blowing the oil corps for cash, then we might get somewhere.

BUT, wouldn't that crash a global economy that is based on oil? Fucking complicated.
 
Lao Tzu said:
The same applies to oil, but I don't know how much energy goes into either.

Supposedly biomass is starting to become cheaper than coal as a fuel source, which would make coal plants environmentally friendly.
Click to expand...

from what i understand, the allure of gas as a fuel source is that it is relatively cheap to extract. just tap the ground and bam.
obivioiusly it is getting more expensive with the deeper well sites and the shoal filtering, but i don't believe any other source is as easy and cheap to extract as gasoline
 
Pin said:
http://www.physiology.ucla.edu/faculty/diamond.htm

If the world would start listening to dudes like this guy!! He was up here speaking at a local University and said that Democrats need to accept nuclear energy as the best alternative to global warming.

So, if we could get liberals to get rid of their flower sniffing granola crunching stupid ass "nature fuel" phelosiphies. And if Republicans would stop blowing the oil corps for cash, then we might get somewhere.

BUT, wouldn't that crash a global economy that is based on oil? Fucking complicated.
Click to expand...
It would be *very* clever on the part of dems to start pushing nuclear power for a lot of reasons. Problem is, they are too beholden to the whack-o environmentalists so it will never happen.
 
mrplunkey said:
It would be *very* clever on the part of dems to start pushing nuclear power for a lot of reasons. Problem is, they are too beholden to the whack-o environmentalists so it will never happen.
Click to expand...

Sad but true.
 
Lao Tzu said:
Of course people have been saying this for the last 2 years. But it is feasable. Does anyone know what that'll do for gas prices? I'm guessing it'll be in the $4.50 for a gallon range.

http://www.forbes.com/business/2006/08/09/oil-prices-bp-cx_tvr_0810oil.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/04/AR2006080400126.html

We'd better start hurrying on that flexfuel infrastructure.
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bet you 10 bucks traffic jams in big cities won't budge an inch. they cried the end of the world when gas prices hit 2 bucks few years ago.

no matter how much they rise, people will still buy same amount.

Funny, no one bitches about house prices doubling in most cities. They don't mind their mortgage payments going from $1600 to $3200. Like I give a shit about paying $70 more for gas per month. House/rent prices is where I bitch about. Gas is still uber-cheap.
 
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