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NPP dosage- experienced comparisons to deca
- Thread starter geoboy
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halfaclue said:
That's completely false.
Nandrolone Phenylpropionate a.k.a. NPP is a nandrolone molecule with a phenylpropionate ester attached to it. Nandrolone Decanoate a.k.a. Deca has a decanoate ester instead, which is heavier, so the whole deca molecule is heavier than the npp molecule. This means that for the same amount of mgs, the npp yields more nandrolone than deca. So if you want to substitute npp for deca and have the same effectiveness, you must take LESS npp.
How much less ? Well, it's easy to calculate it if you know the molecular weight of each substance :
npp : 424.579
deca : 446.671
so the ratio is deca:npp = 1.05203272:1, which means that for example 600mg of deca are equivalent to 570.324 mg of npp.
Nice math greekgod, but you missed the point. He asked about comparable BLOOD levels. Deca has a longer ester, so when it does peak, the peak concentrations will be higher. NPP, having a shorter ester, will not peak as high though it will peak more quickly. To achieve the same blood level with NPP, you WILL need more mg's than deca per week, however you'll see the results quicker. I don't know how much more you'd need, but 800 to 600 sounds about right.
hammertime30
New member
Xizor said:
actually deca has a half life of around 14 days
Xizor
New member
Used a roidcalculator which had decanoate ester halflife set to 7days. Just read another aricle which said 15days. Then I found this:hammertime30 said:
Acta Endocrinol Suppl (Copenh). 1985;271:19-30. Related Articles, Links
Pharmacokinetic parameters of nandrolone (19-nortestosterone) after intramuscular administration of nandrolone decanoate (Deca-Durabolin) to healthy volunteers.
Wijnand HP, Bosch AM, Donker CW.
Nandrolone decanoate (Deca-Durabolin) was injected intramuscularly into healthy volunteers. One group of females received one injection of 100 mg and three groups of males received one injection of 200 mg, two repeat injections of 100 mg or four repeat injections of 50 mg respectively. The serum levels of nandrolone (19-nortestosterone) were determined by radioimmunoassay and used to estimate pharmacokinetic parameters. The following pharmacokinetic parameters were found: a mean half-life of 6 days for the release of the ester from the muscular injection depot into the general circulation; a mean half-life of 4.3 h for the combined processes of hydrolysis of nandrolone decanoate and of distribution and elimination of nandrolone; a mean nandrolone serum clearance of 1.55 1 X h-1 X kg-1. The half-life of hydrolysis of nandrolone decanoate in serum was of the order of one hour or less. The data are consistent with linear kinetics.
PMID: 3865478 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
I'm all confused now too..
/Xizor
halfaclue said:
it's not impressive, it's just very basic arithmetic.
Lowest said:
No, the longer ester will result in lower blood levels for a longer time, and the shorter ester in contrast will provide higher levels for a shorter time, assuming you're taking the same amount all in one shot. In any case the product (the integral to be more exact) blood concentration * duration will be equal to the amount of yielded nandrolone.
You can to some extent mimick the time-released action of the long ester by injecting the short ester more frequently (like eod). But it is impossible to say exactly how much npp will provide equal blood levels to deca, because
1. nobody seems to know exactly what the half life of each drug is
2. mimicking the action of a long acting drug by using a short acting drug is a quite complex problem
This discussion can become very complicated and confusing, so to give you a very rough estimate :
Frontloading 1200mg deca and then shooting 600 mg deca once every half life (which no one knows for sure how long it is) should give you comparable results to taking 570mg npp (divided in multiple ed/eod shots) every half life (of deca).
test-monkey
New member
greek god is right, and I think 600-800mg of nnp is way to much! I grow more on 150mg of nnp a week then 300mg of decanate a week, but that could just be me.
Molecular weight has nothing to do with it.
Deca can build up to quite a high concentration. If I remember correctly, using the half-life formula, 200mg of Deca a week will build up to about 525mg of estrified Deca at peak levels (4-5 weeks). Decanoate ester yields about 65% so that's 340mg of base Nandrolone.
Phenylprop yields about 80%, so to get about 340mg of Base nandrolone, you need 425mg of NPP.
Taking into account that NPP has somewhat of a small build up (and for the sake of simplifying things):
200mg of Deca is equivalent to 350mg of NPP
I've found that to be true in my experience.
Deca can build up to quite a high concentration. If I remember correctly, using the half-life formula, 200mg of Deca a week will build up to about 525mg of estrified Deca at peak levels (4-5 weeks). Decanoate ester yields about 65% so that's 340mg of base Nandrolone.
Phenylprop yields about 80%, so to get about 340mg of Base nandrolone, you need 425mg of NPP.
Taking into account that NPP has somewhat of a small build up (and for the sake of simplifying things):
200mg of Deca is equivalent to 350mg of NPP
I've found that to be true in my experience.
test-monkey
New member
200mg of Deca is equivalent to 350mg of NPP
I've found that to be true in my experience.[/QUOTE]
are you saying you grow better off deca then nnp? I guess I react differnet, because a lower dose off nnp will make me grow a lot more then deca
I've found that to be true in my experience.[/QUOTE]
are you saying you grow better off deca then nnp? I guess I react differnet, because a lower dose off nnp will make me grow a lot more then deca
test-monkey said:
are you saying you grow better off deca then nnp? I guess I react differnet, because a lower dose off nnp will make me grow a lot more then deca
[/QUOTE]Most people compare Deca gains after 10 weeks or so into the cycle. It takes so long to kick in. NPP cycles are shorter, so you end up gaining mass faster.
Plus, you have to take into account that Deca is more likely to be faked than NPP at this point. Not too many NPP fakes(or underdosed) going around, it's not popular enough.
Sorry greekgod, but you're still wrong. Longer ester means HIGHER blood levels with the same mg per week, it just takes longer. Shorter ester like NPP will reach it's maximum blood levels faster, but b/c of the fact that it's metabolized more quickly and eliminated, it won't reach as high a concentration. Why do you think people get more bloat with 700mg/week of test enth than with 700mg/week of prop? The prop is actually MORE mg of pure test, but b/c it's a much faster ester, it doesn't have time to build up as high, so not as much converts to estrogen. You've got a good idea, but it's the wrong one 
BigAndy69 said:are you saying you grow better off deca then nnp? I guess I react differnet, because a lower dose off nnp will make me grow a lot more then deca
Most people compare Deca gains after 10 weeks or so into the cycle. It takes so long to kick in. NPP cycles are shorter, so you end up gaining mass faster.
Plus, you have to take into account that Deca is more likely to be faked than NPP at this point. Not too many NPP fakes(or underdosed) going around, it's not popular enough.[/QUOTE]
I don't know what my deal is then because i'm not feeling anything from my NPP. I'm on 50mg of dbol and day and 300mg enthate e3d and 200mg of npp e3d. for the week that is
350mg dbol
700mg of enthate
466mg of NPP
maybe my NPP dosage is to low. I'm almost 6 weeks in and feel like I've peaked. No additional strength gains or size gains in the last 2 weeks.
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