not sure where to put this so Ill try here

[jarhead1]

Ive done quite a few cycles since the 80's sometimes not coming off for a year or more they never included test, as AE's were just not as available as they are today & my titties would instantly start hurting and growing. I tried a test cycle about 5 yrs ago, same damn thing fortunately I had some nolva on hand and the cycle turned out OK, but I said screw it Im done with test. Then this year I thought what the hell, & to my surprise no gyno! But not much strength wise at all and I put on a good 15lbs BF. So my question is did I trade gyno for body fat and minimal strength gains.
here is my cycle.
1,000mg cyp,100mg prop eod,400mg primo week#1
1,000mg cyp,100mg prop eod,400mg primo week#2
500mg cyp, 100mg prop eod,400mg primo week#3
500mg cyp, 100mg prop eod,400mg primo week#4 same thing all the way through week#8

What could possibly explain this conundrum? My chee chee's feel fine. Is this just another way of excessive estrogen manifesting itself. I want to desperately save this cycle but Ive only got 4 mor weeks to do it. what do ya think letro of nolva and how much? This is why I avoided test all those years,, I'm bound to get it figured out if it's the last thing I do! Thank for you help whoever steps up

 

[hydez27]

Bro thats enough test to bloat anybody, why so high ?


Pain is temporary, glory is forever!

 

[hydez27]

And question why are you using the two different testosterones?


Pain is temporary, glory is forever!

 

[jarhead1]

And question why are you using the two different testosterones?


Pain is temporary, glory is forever!

Like I said, not ever being a test man myself I took advice which at the time seemed sound form one of those other sites. We all know how esters work so I'll avoid that. I could have quit the prop once I got the cyp going but I got such a rush off it, that's why plus I saw the curve on how fast cyp was broken down in your system I figured what the hey I'm keeping it up there at a good level and getting a kick out of it too. But I really think I traded gyno for BF. 1st of all I don't even know if that's possible. But it does sound logical.

 

[hydez27]

Maybe try running an anti estrogen like arimodex or something, hows the diet? And i dont blame you for not stopping the prop its by far my favourite test


Pain is temporary, glory is forever!

 

[jarhead1]

Ive got Nolva & letro. Isnt Nolve Arimidex?

 

[hydez27]

Nah man different product nolva should b sweet


Pain is temporary, glory is forever!

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Ive got Nolva & letro. Isnt Nolve Arimidex?

No nolva is not arimidex. Nolva is a selective estragen agonist/antagonist (works at the receptor) whilse a-dex is an aromatase inhibitor.

If you are getting signs of gyno (which I've cured twice in myself stacking letro and nolva) go on 1.25mg (half a tab) of letro a day with 20 mg of nolva a day until it goes away.

Also why are you using so much test unless you are a very big guy?

 

[Mad_Max21]

^^^Very good advice...And too much test!

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Pulled a picture of my old gyno... I had a ton of water on my chest and very puffy nips in this pic... I came off tren, went on 1.25mg letro/20mg nolva a day and in about 3-4 weeks it cleared up.

http://www.efbodybuildinggallery.com/data/500/avatar33117_1.gif

 

[joeblow12345]

If you have gyno issues arimadex should be a staple in your cycle. If you already have gyno use letro. Im not a fan of nolva myself. The test doesn't cause body fat bad eating does. It is common to have some water retention but it wont make you fat just a little smooth. After you use letro to get the gyno under control use adex at .5 mg a day. If that doesnt work try 1 mg day.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using EliteFitness

 

[Deleted member 33117]

If you have gyno issues arimadex should be a staple in your cycle. If you already have gyno use letro. Im not a fan of nolva myself. The test doesn't cause body fat bad eating does. It is common to have some water retention but it wont make you fat just a little smooth. After you use letro to get the gyno under control use adex at .5 mg a day. If that doesnt work try 1 mg day.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using EliteFitness

Also good advices... anyone gyno-prone will know after a cycle or two... a low dose AI is your best friend. I've found unfortunately for me that I will always get some gyno if tren is stacked with anything which converts to estragen, another reason I am avoiding it.

I'll be running aromasin when I go back on.

 

[Drewb]

Stane (ie aromasin) is by far my fav AI

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Stane (ie aromasin) is by far my fav AI

It is a little more expensive, but when you see your lipid profile you will know where that extra money went. I actually like letro more as it is dirt cheap and you can run a tiny dose... but I worry more about my cholesterol as I get older... my mother died of a massive heart attack a few years back (2 pack a day smoker and was on female HRT both were factors).

 

[Drewb]

It's pretty cheap from some of the research sites, although that's bit me in the ass a few times (sometimes they are underdosed or overdosed slightly).

But yes, lipids is one of the reasons I use it/like it.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

It's pretty cheap from some of the research sites, although that's bit me in the ass a few times (sometimes they are underdosed or overdosed slightly).

But yes, lipids is one of the reasons I use it/like it.

I can get human pharma grade here (love these UK laws) for around $45 US for a bottle of 30. Half a pill eod is a 4 month supply. A lot more expensive than letro but quite reasonable really... plus you know what you are getting.

 

[Drewb]

I can get human pharma grade here (love these UK laws) for around $45 US for a bottle of 30. Half a pill eod is a 4 month supply. A lot more expensive than letro but quite reasonable really... plus you know what you are getting.

That's nice man. UK citizen myself, currently not there though.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

That's nice man. UK citizen myself, currently not there though.

Here on marriage visa. After 5 years here if still married to the wifey I can get dual citizenship. Although rippoff Britian gets me for everything... the entire visa process ran me about 2000 quid... going to be another 1k for indefinate leave to remain in Jan 2014, then another 850 for citizenship.

 

[jarhead1]

If you have gyno issues arimadex should be a staple in your cycle. If you already have gyno use letro. Im not a fan of nolva myself. The test doesn't cause body fat bad eating does. It is common to have some water retention but it wont make you fat just a little smooth. After you use letro to get the gyno under control use adex at .5 mg a day. If that doesnt work try 1 mg day.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using EliteFitness

Why are you not a fan of nolva? And whats the difference between an antagonist and an AI. The way I understand it the antagonist binds the receptors and the AI eliminates the estrogen. But dont we need some estrogen? And what is Nolva the an antagonist or AI?

 

[jarhead1]

No nolva is not arimidex. Nolva is a selective estragen agonist/antagonist (works at the receptor) whilse a-dex is an aromatase inhibitor.

If you are getting signs of gyno (which I've cured twice in myself stacking letro and nolva) go on 1.25mg (half a tab) of letro a day with 20 mg of nolva a day until it goes away.

Also why are you using so much test unless you are a very big guy?

So what is Nolva agonist or AI?

 

[jarhead1]

off subject comment or question, I went to give the 1st guy that helped me karma points, & it asked if If I wanted to give him 100% of my Karma. at least thats the way it appeared to me. So if I give out Karma does it take away from mine? probably a dumb ? but I had to ask before I just gave it all away.

 

[ceo]

an AI won't completely eliminate estrogen.

Nolvadex (tamoxifen) is a SERM. It prevents estrogen from binding, it down not eliminate it nor inhibit it's production.

 

[jarhead1]

bump on the karma/points system an how it works?

 

[stevesmi]

100% of your karmic power.

and as far as your question instead of taking a zillion drugs to combat your gyno problems how bout scrapping test from your cycle and just running primo by itself? you won't have to worry about gyno doing that !

whats the point of adding 15 pounds if its all water and boobies?

also i will say nolva is a shit drug, the sides are horrible, and it doesn't do a good job during your pct of making you feel good, it makes you crash harder which is the exact opposite of what you want during pct. .. its given to women after breast cancer and many have to stop taking it cause it makes them feel ill, just google and see for yourself... the people who push nolva are usually guys who use outdated pct's from the 80's. we are in the year 2012. there are better ways now. you don't HAVE TO feel like shit during pct anymore, back then guys just accepted that pct sucked and they would lose their gains until they jumped back on cycle and felt good again.