Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below I have been researching gh use. I know how to approach the dosages and timing. My question is about serostim. I have seen this question a few times but it's answer is always unclear. The kits are 126 iu I want to use 4iu 5 on 2 off, are they individual vials or in a pen. Do ineed bacteriostatic water to make it last long enough to get thru each week?
mod or ironmaster please clear this up gh Q for me
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I agree... If you are looking for muscular gains, I strongly recomend that you don't even think of using serostim. In controlled studies, those who used serostim gained 0% growth in contractile proteins... Serostim unlike other growth hormones does not lead to any additional muscle growth. However, it will enlarge internal organs, cause water retention, and cause gyno. But that's the only growth you'll see. It is possible to get some benefit of additional fat loss however, but that is not worth the health risks.
Mod could probably direct you to a link to my post on serostim in the archives. It contains the abstracts to several research studies explaining the effects of serostim. I couldn't find it...
-Stew
Mod could probably direct you to a link to my post on serostim in the archives. It contains the abstracts to several research studies explaining the effects of serostim. I couldn't find it...
-Stew
All the listed brands are the same in structure...191 amino, exactly like human GH. Saizen is made by the same company, Serono, that makes serostim....only difference is in concentration. Saizen is for replacement therapy, serostim is for those with non-functioning pituitary glands or wasting diseases, and is more concentrated.
The latest study of serostim showed a 6% increase in muscle mass and an 8% change in lean body composition......in UNTRAINED individuals.
I get great results from serostim, and humatrope, no difference....but Stew is a smart guy - I'd be interested in the research.
My source is Yarashesky....the leading researcher in the field, in the journal of Applied Physiology.
The latest study of serostim showed a 6% increase in muscle mass and an 8% change in lean body composition......in UNTRAINED individuals.
I get great results from serostim, and humatrope, no difference....but Stew is a smart guy - I'd be interested in the research.
My source is Yarashesky....the leading researcher in the field, in the journal of Applied Physiology.
I have no knowlege of biochemical structure of Serostim as opposed to humatrope; I did not know it was a mere matter of concentration. That doesn't sound right, but I'll take your word for it. I do know that I've read numberous studies that show that serostim leads to no gains in contractile protein. There ARE gains in lean body mass, but lean body mass is not exclusively muscle. Many studies have shown that even without exercise, GH leads to increases in lean body mass. But recent studies show that this is due to enlargement of organs, and conective structures that allign the orgins, rib cage, spinal colums, abdominal wall, and other connective tissue such as specific bones; increase water retention; and grows breast tissue in men. These are all considered LBM, but not contractile tissue.
I will repost something I posted in another thread that lists some of the refrences on serostim research:
"Effect of growth hormone and resistance exercise on muscle growth in young men", Yarasheski KE; Campbell JA; Smith K; Rennie MJ; Holloszy JO; Bier DM. Am J Physiol, 262(3 Pt 1):E261-7 1992 Mar
Serostim (a growth hormone) given at 2 to 4 times normal physiological levels (9 IU per day) did not produce significant muscle growth in young men who lifted weights. While there was an increase in LBM, the LBM that was gained was basically not muscle, but water or other tissue.
"Effect of growth hormone and resistance exercise on muscle growth and strength in older men", Yarasheski KE; Zachwieja JJ; Campbell JA; Bier DM. Am J Physiol, 268(2 Pt 1):E268-76 1995 Feb
In this study there was also a lack of effect on muscle tissue, but in older men who lifted weights. The authors said: "The greater increase in fat free mass (FFM) with GH treatment seemed to be due to an increase in noncontractile protein and fluid retention."
"Growth hormone effects on metabolism, body composition, muscle mass, and strength". Yarasheski KE. Exerc Sport Sci Rev, 22():285-312 1994
In this one the author said, "On the basis of the similar increases in muscle protein synthesis, muscle cross-sectional area, and muscle strength observed in placebo and GH-treated exercising young adults, it is doubtful that the nitrogen retention associated with daily GH treatment results in any increase in contractile protein, improved muscle function, strength or athletic performance."
At the Cannes Conference data from a study by Donald P. Kotler, MD reported:
"The results of an interim analysis of a 6-month open-label trial of the safety and efficacy of Serostim growth hormone upon visceral adipose tissue, as determined by whole body MRI scanning. Therapy with 6mg of Serostim rhGH did not promote a significant change in skeletal muscle during the first 12 weeks of therapy in the 8 subjects for whom repeat MRI data were available. Cost for 12 weeks was approximately $19,000.
The political problem here is that Serostim GH has been promoted as an anabolic agent with claims by Serono sales people that GH builds muscle. Note that testosterone and anabolic steroids have been proven to be anabolic to muscle tissue, and testosterone has been shown to significantly increase muscle growth, but because of the deception of Serono's sales people many HIV(+) people who have needed anabolic steroids to build their bodies and their health have been given Serostim GH by well-intentioned, but misinformed physicians..."
Growth hormone may have some benefit to elderly men wishing to have slightly elevated metabolism, but if you are using GH to gain muscle, you are wasting your money.
Now, you may experience a slightly higher degree of fat burning... however, be warned GH side effects are neither reversable or preventable. There may be a slim possibility of additional gains in contractile protein when used in conjunction with steroids, but the gains are probably not signifigant. Stick with steroids and you can't go wrong.
Now, I'm sure someone is going to come along and say "I made good gains from serostim..."
But you can rest assured that there was nothing in the serostim to influence muscle gains other than the manufactor's claims... I have seen no evidence that there is any benifit of muscular anabolism at any dose used in conjunction with anything.
BTW, it is interesting to note that after the information on the effects of Serostim was published, Searle began to pay kickbacks to doctors who would write Serostim scripts and convince insurance companies to cover it...
Here's the article about Serano paying kickbacks... Serostim was found out to be worthless and ineffective at supporting muscle mass. Therefore they had to push their product by financial incentives to doctors who would prescribe it... or at least thats how I understand it.
"Doctors and are being paid a $600 dollars per month “finder’s fee” for each Serostim prescription they refer. This is paid to the “finder” as a kickback. I can tell you from first hand experience that I have been offered this deal, and that several well-known doctors are making extra Mercedes money taking advantage of this extra perk when they write Serostim prescriptions. The reality is that there’s a lot of profit built into each high-ticket Serostim sale. I was taken out to dinner and given all the details about this last summer in an aggressive recruitment effort that’s offered by one of the big pharmacies to people who can have an influence on patient’s decisions.
I was told that I could make lots of money being the “gatekeeper” to their pharmacy for lots of Serostim prescriptions. Of course I couldn’t go along with it because I’d be lying if I told my patients that growth hormone is as anabolic as steroids. While growth hormone may have a place in the total picture, it has very little effect on increasing muscle tissue, and its price is predatory.
During the dinner I learned the names of some well-known doctors and nutritionists who are making lots of extra spending cash with this deal. So next time some advisor or doctor recommends that you start using Serostim and tells you where to fill your prescription, remember, Serostim isn’t a drug to build lean body mass, and your limited insurance money is being eaten up paying for some rich person’s new Lamborghini.
-Stew
I will repost something I posted in another thread that lists some of the refrences on serostim research:
"Effect of growth hormone and resistance exercise on muscle growth in young men", Yarasheski KE; Campbell JA; Smith K; Rennie MJ; Holloszy JO; Bier DM. Am J Physiol, 262(3 Pt 1):E261-7 1992 Mar
Serostim (a growth hormone) given at 2 to 4 times normal physiological levels (9 IU per day) did not produce significant muscle growth in young men who lifted weights. While there was an increase in LBM, the LBM that was gained was basically not muscle, but water or other tissue.
"Effect of growth hormone and resistance exercise on muscle growth and strength in older men", Yarasheski KE; Zachwieja JJ; Campbell JA; Bier DM. Am J Physiol, 268(2 Pt 1):E268-76 1995 Feb
In this study there was also a lack of effect on muscle tissue, but in older men who lifted weights. The authors said: "The greater increase in fat free mass (FFM) with GH treatment seemed to be due to an increase in noncontractile protein and fluid retention."
"Growth hormone effects on metabolism, body composition, muscle mass, and strength". Yarasheski KE. Exerc Sport Sci Rev, 22():285-312 1994
In this one the author said, "On the basis of the similar increases in muscle protein synthesis, muscle cross-sectional area, and muscle strength observed in placebo and GH-treated exercising young adults, it is doubtful that the nitrogen retention associated with daily GH treatment results in any increase in contractile protein, improved muscle function, strength or athletic performance."
At the Cannes Conference data from a study by Donald P. Kotler, MD reported:
"The results of an interim analysis of a 6-month open-label trial of the safety and efficacy of Serostim growth hormone upon visceral adipose tissue, as determined by whole body MRI scanning. Therapy with 6mg of Serostim rhGH did not promote a significant change in skeletal muscle during the first 12 weeks of therapy in the 8 subjects for whom repeat MRI data were available. Cost for 12 weeks was approximately $19,000.
The political problem here is that Serostim GH has been promoted as an anabolic agent with claims by Serono sales people that GH builds muscle. Note that testosterone and anabolic steroids have been proven to be anabolic to muscle tissue, and testosterone has been shown to significantly increase muscle growth, but because of the deception of Serono's sales people many HIV(+) people who have needed anabolic steroids to build their bodies and their health have been given Serostim GH by well-intentioned, but misinformed physicians..."
Growth hormone may have some benefit to elderly men wishing to have slightly elevated metabolism, but if you are using GH to gain muscle, you are wasting your money.
Now, you may experience a slightly higher degree of fat burning... however, be warned GH side effects are neither reversable or preventable. There may be a slim possibility of additional gains in contractile protein when used in conjunction with steroids, but the gains are probably not signifigant. Stick with steroids and you can't go wrong.
Now, I'm sure someone is going to come along and say "I made good gains from serostim..."
But you can rest assured that there was nothing in the serostim to influence muscle gains other than the manufactor's claims... I have seen no evidence that there is any benifit of muscular anabolism at any dose used in conjunction with anything.
BTW, it is interesting to note that after the information on the effects of Serostim was published, Searle began to pay kickbacks to doctors who would write Serostim scripts and convince insurance companies to cover it...
Here's the article about Serano paying kickbacks... Serostim was found out to be worthless and ineffective at supporting muscle mass. Therefore they had to push their product by financial incentives to doctors who would prescribe it... or at least thats how I understand it.
"Doctors and are being paid a $600 dollars per month “finder’s fee” for each Serostim prescription they refer. This is paid to the “finder” as a kickback. I can tell you from first hand experience that I have been offered this deal, and that several well-known doctors are making extra Mercedes money taking advantage of this extra perk when they write Serostim prescriptions. The reality is that there’s a lot of profit built into each high-ticket Serostim sale. I was taken out to dinner and given all the details about this last summer in an aggressive recruitment effort that’s offered by one of the big pharmacies to people who can have an influence on patient’s decisions.
I was told that I could make lots of money being the “gatekeeper” to their pharmacy for lots of Serostim prescriptions. Of course I couldn’t go along with it because I’d be lying if I told my patients that growth hormone is as anabolic as steroids. While growth hormone may have a place in the total picture, it has very little effect on increasing muscle tissue, and its price is predatory.
During the dinner I learned the names of some well-known doctors and nutritionists who are making lots of extra spending cash with this deal. So next time some advisor or doctor recommends that you start using Serostim and tells you where to fill your prescription, remember, Serostim isn’t a drug to build lean body mass, and your limited insurance money is being eaten up paying for some rich person’s new Lamborghini.
-Stew
elite hot topic
New member
God am I confused.
? What brand are you guys recomending for mass and fat reduction.(serostim or humatrope)
Can someone also recomend a site or fill me in on why you need this bacwater..
I am intrested in GH as well in the near future but it sounds too confusing.
? What brand are you guys recomending for mass and fat reduction.(serostim or humatrope)
Can someone also recomend a site or fill me in on why you need this bacwater..
I am intrested in GH as well in the near future but it sounds too confusing.
I am with elitehottopic. The repliers to this thread are some of the foremost gh users on the board with very large conflicting opinions on serostim. Serostim is the only gh many of us can get and the sources I am familiar with only seem to carry. I have been researching and learning on gh for the last year and finally feel comfortable on using this substance and I am now back where I was 6 months ago. I think this needs more discussion and research it may save alot of bro's some grief if serostim actually does as stew has posted in reference to the controlled study. May be some other opinions from other bros that have used seristim and their experience.
Thanks
DROID
Thanks
DROID
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