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Marines' training runs probed

Weapon X

New member
The Defense Department is investigating a mandatory training run at a major armed forces command after a female officer complained to Washington that the weekly jog was demeaning.
A spokesman for U.S. Southern Command, which oversees American military operations in Latin America, confirmed to The Washington Times that the run has been canceled.
"The Defense Department IG (inspector general) is addressing the command run and some other allegations," said Col. Ron Williams, the command's chief spokesman. "The IG is involved in the investigation, and I'm not sure where it's going to go."
Another spokesman confirmed that Marine Corps Gen. Peter Pace, who heads the U.S. Southern Command, terminated the Friday morning run. It involved uniform personnel running for about 30 minutes in a park near the command headquarters in Miami.
Military sources told The Times an officer wrote a letter of complaint to Congress and the Pentagon, and the case was referred to the office of the inspector general. Another source said part of the complaint is that the run subjected slow runners to ridicule from faster participants. The IG is also looking into the "command climate" at the headquarters.
Col. Williams said Gen. Pace, a Vietnam combat veteran and former commander of the Marine Barracks in Washington, did not participate in the runs. The spokesman declined to discuss the female officer's allegations. The run was begun by the previous commander, before Gen. Pace took command in September.
Col. Williams said the runners were usually divided into groups based on their abilities.
Said Kelley Spellman, a command spokeswoman: "The entire command would run. They would run around the area of the command for approximately half an hour. It was an esprit de corps endeavor and also physical fitness."
She said such mandatory runs are "pretty prevalent for the Army and Marine Corps, but not so much for the Navy because they are on ships a lot."
The decision to terminate the run has its critics within the command's officer corps. One suggested the decision is an example of an increasingly coed military toning down its warrior culture to accommodate women.
In 1997, then-Defense Secretary William Cohen ordered a blue-ribbon commission to look at the issue of mixed-gender basic training. Mr. Cohen was so alarmed at the panel's findings that in 1998 he ordered the services to add more rigor to training.
The run's cancellation was even more puzzling to some inside the Pentagon, given the emphasis the Defense Department places on physical fitness.
In 1998, the Pentagon kicked off "Operation Be Fit," a program designed to encourage personnel to exercise outside their units' normal physical training.
The short run at Southern Command was in addition to mandatory, twice-yearly physical fitness tests taken by all military personnel. Each branch has different, although similar, requirements.
In the Marine Corps, which places a strong emphasis on physical conditioning, a male must be able to run three miles in at least 28 minutes; a female in 31 minutes. Males and females must be able to perform at least 45 stomach-toning "crunches" in two minutes.
It varies from command to command on whether physical training is required as a group activity.
Staff Sgt. Keith Milks, a spokesman at Marine headquarters in the Pentagon, said most of his past assignments were at commands that required group runs.
"We are all supposed to be war fighters, and this is a way for commanders to gauge the physical strength of their warriors."
Because of odd working hours, he said, mandatory runs are not required at Marine headquarters. "We run individually," he said.
At U.S. Central Command in Tampa, Fla., a spokesman said workouts and runs are left to the individual.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20010709-30466182.htm
 
hahahaha

im sorry, but that really made me laugh. if women are set lower physical standards, ok. im undecided if as a result of this they should be denied front-line roles. but if they are gonna be the slower ones they have to expect some ridicule until they make it to the front. i dont see men suing due to it.

its just a woman who thought she could make some $$ by suing. the majority of the women in the military now probably hate her.
 
And in England...

The Empire Strikes Back
Britain nixes girls in the ranks.

This week, British Defense Secretary Geoff Hoon will be briefed on the results of a joint-services study of women in combat that found female soldiers unsuited for the physical demands of direct combat. The British services' "Combat Effectiveness Gender Study" concludes that women should continue to be barred from serving in "direct-fire close-combat roles." Such a revealing study would never be permitted in the U.S. military, where the Pentagon's feminist lobby forbids a discouraging word about women's capabilities. Secretary Rumsfeld's team might want to request a copy be forwarded in a plain brown wrapper before getting hen-pecked into adopting more destructive social engineering in the name of equality in the ranks.

A senior military official explained that the study concentrated solely on testing whether women "can carry the load." And the answer was: Only if it's not as heavy as the guys' burden. Seventy percent of women, in contrast to 20 percent of men, were unable to carry 90 pounds of artillery shells over a measured distance. While 17 percent of men failed a test requiring a 12.5-mile march, with 60 pounds of equipment, followed by target practice simulating conditions under fire, the female failure rate was 48 percent.

Women soldiers came up short in these field tests of strength and stamina despite complaints that performance on certain tasks had been "gender normed" to mask differences in performance. Earlier this year, Brigadier Seymour Monro, the Army's director of infantry, claimed that tests had been watered down, and certain particularly difficult tasks eliminated, in the interest of enhancing women's performance. Still, enough demanding tasks remained to reveal the potentially deadly differences.

It won't be easy for the Pentagon's Defense Advisory Committee on Women in the Services (DACOWITS) to hide from the latest evidence that their goal of full integration risks the lives of men and women in uniform. The British field tests revealed that women were unable to dig into hard ground while under fire.


http://www.nationalreview.com/kob/kob062601.shtml
 
Let me tell you this. She should be dishonorably discharged and ridiculed. If she thinks those runs are demeaning, she is a waste of life. I spent over five years going on platoon, company, and battalion runs. If you are a straggler you will get picked up and it is far worse for those of us who are not stragglers as we have to continually circle back to pick 'em up. Second, if you can't hack a battallion run you are one out of shape mo fo.

The woman only had to do a mile and half a long time ago and they bitched so much about having to do the 3 mile group runs, that they had their pt standards changed to include 3 mile runs. It backfired on them.

What are we supposed to do? Tell the enemy wait, don't hurt our slow pog's'! It is not their fault they are out of shape, it is our gov't's and the whiners fault. Just shoot the faster people? and don't shoot the women. They might complain about the harsh conditions of combat and that we are allowing you to shoot at them.
 
Haha! I knew we'd hear from you, chesty! :D

My whole time in the Army, male soldiers had to do extra work to make up for the women who couldn't keep up. That, and the fact that most of the women spent their whole time on Detail flirting with the NCOIC to get out of the hard work.

I have to say that most of the women who actually pulled their weight were the Lesbians. Those were some hard-workin' dykes! Good soldiers, too!
 
...and most were the ugliest mo fo's I had ever seen!
 
Weapon X,

What did you do in the Army? I have forgotten.


This woman is sorry.
 
I was a big-time Chairborne Ranger! :D

Database Admin, but my unit did at least get out into the field on a regular basis, and I had the "pleasure" of doing REFORGER (1989?) with V Corps. Also got fun time with our German Sister Unit and their toys (Uzis, etc.).
 
s_hippys.jpg
 
How in the hell did that worthless female make it through Officer canidate school (bootcamp)?
Do they not install some type of pride in them.

I think that no females should be allowed in the Corp. Most of them can't even serve their full contract. They are useally brake at bootcamp. If not at bootcamp then at MCT. I used to hit the gym at Camp Gieger and you could see all the broke worthless females walking around with all types of leg,knee, ankle braces. What a joke.

They need to bring back the slogan " A Few Good MEN"
 
This whole fucking country is becoming fucking soft

THis pisses me off to no extent
the fucking liberal downward spiral of out great nation

let me tell you a little story

As you know i am a marine
When i was in boot in '97 DI werent allowed to tough a recruit,
well i was guide on i fucked up, i lost my bearing

anyway the "heavy"
fucking kicked my ass up and down...that shit made me hard

Our military is to serve a purpose, to protect all the tree hugging, pot smoking, activist out there,
Put it this way you fucks
if it wasnt for our Men and Women of Arms you all would be speaking german or japanease right now

Our military has to be tough, if you dont like it
dont fucking join...go hide in college and get a fucking desk job...leave the killing and the maming and all the shit you dont want to talk about to people like me and chesty who know that is/was and always will be the duty of a US service man


Want to hear something funny
Most colleges today dont even recognize veterns day...how fucked up is that
 
conan69 said:

Want to hear something funny
Most colleges today dont even recognize veterns day...how fucked up is that

That fucking disgusts me to no extent. People take this country for granted and what the tree hugging hippies don't realize is that if American blood wasn't spilled and lives sacrificed they wouldn't even have the right to bitch and protest the way they do.

I can't wait to join the Corps, and serve.
 
Rex said:


That fucking disgusts me to no extent. People take this country for granted and what the tree hugging hippies don't realize is that if American blood wasn't spilled and lives sacrificed they wouldn't even have the right to bitch and protest the way they do.

I can't wait to join the Corps, and serve.

See that is what i am talking about
people take this country and their freedom for granted

Think about it, think about all the wars the US has played a Major role in, the world would be totally different if it wasnt for those mean green killling machines
 
the best thing about boot camp was getting my ass kicked in boot camp. the rest of my time sucked because the women were weak, so I didn't get to do anything cool because they generalized that all women can't do shit, especially if you DON"T look like a stone dyke.
 
Amen Conan69, we need more brothers like you and WeaponX. I wish the damned recruiter would hurry up and finish my reenlistment package into the Reserves. Marines that is. I sure do miss the esprit de corps. One thing is for sure, she just ended her career hands down.

Remember that Corporal from Hawaii during desert storm who said he joined for college money and didn't realize he would have to fight? Or that Lt. who decided not to ship out with the rest of his unit during ds? Both of those little fags are lucky. Especially the LT. Missing a movent during a time of war is punishable by death according to the UCMJ.
 
Conan, you said it, bro! Very well put. There were women in my unit who wouldn't go to AM PT without all of their makeup on.
And guess how many women ETS'ed early by getting pregnant to get out??
 
conan69 said:


See that is what i am talking about
people take this country and their freedom for granted


What disgusts me even more is those pricks who say joining the military is stupid, and if we went to war they would flea the country. I say then fucking leave now. Its real nice to know how appreciative they are of the people who sacrificed so much for them, and how ready and willing they are to repay the favor. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Freedom isn't free. Its paid by blood, sweat, tears, and lives. All of which I am willing to risk losing as a way to pay back the favor.
 
chesty said:
Amen Conan69, we need more brothers like you and WeaponX. I wish the damned recruiter would hurry up and finish my reenlistment package into the Reserves. Marines that is. I sure do miss the esprit de corps. One thing is for sure, she just ended her career hands down.

Remember that Corporal from Hawaii during desert storm who said he joined for college money and didn't realize he would have to fight? Or that Lt. who decided not to ship out with the rest of his unit during ds? Both of those little fags are lucky. Especially the LT. Missing a movent during a time of war is punishable by death according to the UCMJ.

My sole purpose for joining the marines is becaue they get the most action, thats what the marines are all about

you can see it in all the commercials
Navy...adventure
Army...college money
AirForce...TEchical skill

Marines....a nice uniform and a fucking GUN

ohh fucking Rah


heyChesty i just got accepted to flight school
after they discharged my ass for a shitty Knee (fought it all the way to the top)
 
I joined the Marine reserves when I was 18 then bailed when I was 19, getting an other than honorable discharge. I regret quitting ever since and wish I could do it all over again.

SEMPER FIDELIS
 
Right on Conan, You will be the biggest mother fucking pilot in the whole damned Corps. The best part is, at least you know what it is like on the ground and will never put your next air kill ahead the Marines on the ground, unlike the airforce or army chopper pilots.

Way to go. does that mean you get to go to flight shcool? I was in ocs and on my way, then got npq'd with an invitation to return and my oso fucked me in the ass real hard. Bastard.
 
chesty said:
Right on Conan, You will be the biggest mother fucking pilot in the whole damned Corps. The best part is, at least you know what it is like on the ground and will never put your next air kill ahead the Marines on the ground, unlike the airforce or army chopper pilots.

Way to go. does that mean you get to go to flight shcool? I was in ocs and on my way, then got npq'd with an invitation to return and my oso fucked me in the ass real hard. Bastard.

Basically what happened to me, with my knee
but i guess they are really hurting for pilots
so now i have to make the decision

"I have a girl in a mississippi town
She said it was either me of the corps
dont want to go back to mississippi anymore"
 
Conan69, Listen to me bro, I had the same decision, onlyl I chose to stay married to my wife and in the end it cost me my career, college degree, being an officer in the Corps, (which I never got over) and being a pilot. I regret every decision that took that from me.

Whatever you do, take the pilot slot and become an officer in the Corps.

Semper Fi
 
Nothing couold make me wanna reenlist until all the Klinton-era Social Engineering gets undone.
And one more thing... GIVE THE BLACK BERETS BACK TO THE RANGERS! :mad:
 
Best line from a movie- paraphrased-

You fucking people...- you sleep under the blanket of protection which I provide, then queston the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just say thank you and let me go about my business.

And- You people have no idea what it takes to defend a nation.


from A Few Good Men(sorry if it was not completely accurate)
 
Yes it's always more important that military personell have self esteem, never mind if they can hold a positionn, or take a fucking hill!!

In the end the other side will probably just go home cause their officers don't give orders as politely as ours do!
 
Someone once told me something that I'll never forget, and I've tried to run my life by these words ever since... "Sweat in peacetime, so you won't bleed in wartime."

Give it your all, in everything you do or go the F home.
 
LeviathanX said:
Someone once told me something that I'll never forget, and I've tried to run my life by these words ever since... "Sweat in peacetime, so you won't bleed in wartime."

Give it your all, in everything you do or go the F home.

Actually it's "the more you sweat in peacetime, the less you bleed in wartime."
 
Big Buck said:
Actually it's "the more you sweat in peacetime, the less you bleed in wartime."

Yeah... that's it. Regardless, I think I understood the basic premise of what he was trying to convey.
 
Weapon X said:

And one more thing... GIVE THE BLACK BERETS BACK TO THE RANGERS!

Fuck yeah dude. I'm glad I got out before that shit.

I have nothing but pride for my years I served and nothing but respect for all servicemen who do it day in and day out.

I miss a lot of the guys I worked with - the civilian world doesn;t have any of that.

I always stay home on veterans day. :-)

God bless you guys.
 
My signature say's it the way I see it.

"Through mud and blood, to the green fields beyond"

I don't believe that the field of battle is any place for a woman, pure and simple. Regardless of field exercise's on any level, section, platoon, battalion etc. nothing prepare's the soldier for real live combat.
I've seen combat in a few countries, I've seen how men behave through it and after it, and more importantly I've seen how men become too protective of women during combat. And that protective instinct extent's to his female comrades, which I feel is a bad thing. It's a mans natural instinct to protect a woman from all the harsh things in live and when that instinct is brought onto the battle field it's dangerous to both the male and female soldier plus everyone else in the unit.
I'm lucky enough in that I've never seen a female soldier killed in combat, but I've seen female civilians killed and the effect on male soldiers seeing a female killed as opposed to a male is huge. Now studies have shown that during combat the effect on the unit when one of it's females it killed is devastating in the extreme. These are natural emotions for a man to female towards women and no amount of political correctness, ie. telling us we're all equal etc. can change those instincts. During times of extreme danger it's a mans instinct to group together and protect 'women and children'.
Simply put women should be kept away from front line service.
Regards
Bouncer
 
It's posts like this that make me proud to be an American. While waiting all the more to finish up my damn degree and earn my pride with my time in the military
 
Btw the photo was taken this evening while out hunting with Kev, while the two women in our live's (my wife and daughter) were home cooking hehehe.....

Bouncer
 
bouncer said:
Thanks Buck, and on a lighter note here's my little sniper in action. It's my 9yr old son Kevin

god damn it boy...teach that kid right

BAD firing position. his support(left) arm will get tired in that position and either cause a bad short or movement to reajust, either way he is fucked

i will train him, if i get the ears of his first
(human) kill
 
yo Conan, I just got off the rifle and pistol range....double expert :) Remeber, high pistol grip, slow and steady squeeze, clear sight alignment, and check natural point of aim (I always close both my eyes...take a deep breath and then open them again). ;)
 
chesty said:
Let me tell you this. She should be dishonorably discharged and ridiculed. If she thinks those runs are demeaning, she is a waste of life. I spent over five years going on platoon, company, and battalion runs. If you are a straggler you will get picked up and it is far worse for those of us who are not stragglers as we have to continually circle back to pick 'em up. Second, if you can't hack a battallion run you are one out of shape mo fo.

The woman only had to do a mile and half a long time ago and they bitched so much about having to do the 3 mile group runs, that they had their pt standards changed to include 3 mile runs. It backfired on them.

What are we supposed to do? Tell the enemy wait, don't hurt our slow pog's'! It is not their fault they are out of shape, it is our gov't's and the whiners fault. Just shoot the faster people? and don't shoot the women. They might complain about the harsh conditions of combat and that we are allowing you to shoot at them.
That, or someone could impale her on a rusty bayonet and let her worthless cadaver serve as party tray for the local wildlife.
 
Yeah Conan I'll post those pix from his first drive-by, hehehe..
He's still abit small to take a proper firing position, however the rifle he use's is just a Ruger 10/22 semi auto, with a Tasco 3-12x40mm scope and Harris bipod. So he's properly set up.
And LeviathanX I'll post his first picture's using the Barret .50 in South Armagh..

Btw Conan at the moment I'm teaching him his fieldcraft and getting a real buzz out of him stalking and even at age 9 he's a dab hand at the camo !. Although this shot was taken just as a pose !.

Right so that about it from me in this thread.
Regards and did'nt mean any offence to our lady member's here.

REgards
Bouncer
 
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