everybody seems to hate this stuff, but i've got to tell ya that i ran it alone for 4 weeks and made some great strength gains (natural at the time). pushed me over some weight limits that i was stuck at for ages. the pumps were insane. on the down side, my liver values were ridiculous and my doctor had me tested for hepatitis (which of course i didn't have). had to stop when i started getting pains in my sides. time heals.