Lost libido after Deca...HELP !

[MADBALL99]

As some of you may or not remember I had a serious injury a few months backs. I tore my pec, anterior delt, and pulled my bicep tendon all at once while grappling. I was REALLY messed up and could barely work. After some digging around I found that Deca is often used to help these type of injuries. Well let me tell you that it did the trick. I was nearly 100% in a few months and had more muscle than ever not to mention a little strength boost.
Well I did 2 cycles of a bout 1cc every 4-7 days. The 1st was supposedly Deca 100 and the 2nd was a Deca 200. After the 2 cycles I was instructed to do 1 cycle of HCG (around.5-1cc every day for 10 days) to help my body restart testosterone production.....I knew little of steroids and PCT and just (stupidly) went on the advice of a friend.....Soon after I noticed a problem.

Normally I'm about the horniest person I've ever met, but suddenly I found no interst in sex and barely thought of it at all. I have been able to have sex, but something was definitely off. Don't want to go into too much detail but use you imagination. I went to the doctor and they did a blood test. It seems that my testosterone levels are waaaaaay below normal now for a 30 year old. I was at about 108 when normal is between 245 and 800 or so.... They told me to give it 1-2 months since my last injection for my hypothalmus to restart test production. I called the guy that I bought the sh!t from and he said the same happened to him not to worry (don't really trust him). He said he took something called Tribestan or Trybylus at the health store to help him produce testosterone.

I've read that this is a common side effect and that it is also temporary. How cocerned should I be ? How long is a normal amont of time for me to be at 100% or close to ? I was on it for 2 1/2 to 3 months and it's been around 20-60 days since my last HCG shot. I found that I had improved libido after a good 8 hours sleep and some working out, but it's dropped off again. What's going on here ? Any advice besides just giving it time ? Should I leave protein and creatine alone to help my kidneys clean out mys system ? What is trybylus (or trybestan) and is it something I should stay away from until my hypothalmus kicks in ?..Help


I purchased some Tomaxophine nitrate and have been taking it for about 25 days now. I noticed a very slight improvement in libido , but lately I feel lethargic, uncoordinated, and mentally a little slower. Is this a side effect of the Tomaxophine or lowered test production or both ? I tried Clomid but my first day at 300mg made me feel sick, incredibly moody/depressed, and VERY uncoordinated, just sick. I dropped it and and just taking the Tomaxo now. Does it also cause moodiness like Clomid(due to blocking estrogen) to a lesser degree ?


I've made an appointment for an endocronologist, but they won't see me for 2 months....I have a follow up w/ my primary doctor and will ask for another blood test. ANY advice or info is appreciated.

 

[immortalis]

congratulations...

you have Deca-Dick!

 

[jmt24]

300mg of clomid is a lot. how much mg of noval are you taking? how many iu's in 1cc of hcg? try the clomid again, but do it at 100mg for 10 days and see how you feel. how many days has it been since your last deca shot?

 

[Ozz2001]

Well if you run test higher then deca on your cycle you shouldnt have had that problem..All else fails viagra or cialis Either way all the above will get the boat rocking again...Thought maybe this doesnt answer your question oh well

 

[djsf]

Run a full PCT now. Include in it HCG, an anti-estrogen and nolvadex. If you like clomid, you can add that too. Run the full PCT, taking 4-6 weeks to complete it. After a couple more weeks to let all the anti-e's leave your system and allowing things to stabilize, go get your blood tests done again to re-check your test levels. You will probably find they have recovered.

I used this technique to rescud my test from the amazingly low level of 90 back up to 520.

I believe even after the Deca has left your system and your test levels have recovered, that Deca can still reduce your libido for several months. After your test levels have recovered, stay off steroids for a few months and let your body re-establish its normal equilibrium (homeostasis). Things should return to normal once you are working with a normal amount of natty test. Your body has to start producing its own DHT again (a potent androgen which runs your sex drive), and SHBG levels need to return to normal (they are raised after exposure to extrogen, which causes more of your natural test to be "bound" and thus unavailable).

 

[AAP]

Here's what happened bro...

You did a long acting compound that stays ACTIVE in your body for about 45 days. You finished up, did your PCT and then after it was over... guess what? The deca was still active... so in a nutshell, it shorted out anything the PCT accomplished when you came off. During the PCT your jumpstarted your system again only to end it and then your body still react to the residual Deca still in your system, so it shut down again.

I am not the expert here, but I would say take a small dose 100mg of test cyp or enan weekly to help you with your axis. You need some test. Not for muscle but just for normal system function.

 

[MADBALL99]

Doesn't HCG and Test further shut down natural test production ?? I Took an HCG shot (about a cc a day) for 12 days starting around 10 days after my last Deca shot (which was Dec.23 to be exact).....The real problems started around 2-3 weeks after my last HCG shot. I (stupidly) waited over a month before I started taking Tomaxophine Citrate. Been on it for around 3 weeks now. Doctors told me to stay well away from the HCG, but I know they're not exactly well informed on this. They explained how the Deca shut me down and the HCG shut me down even further........

Do you guys think the Nolva (6-8 weeks) will bring me back after a month since my last HCG shot ??

 

[MADBALL99]

Also how should I taper down the Tomaxophine Nitrate. I was told by more than a few to do 8 weeks. Week 1 @ 40mg and taper down. Should I taper down to 35mg wk2, 30mg wk3, 25 mg wk 4, 20 mg wk 5, 10 mg wk 6 , and 10 mg weeks 7 and 8 ??



Or should I take 40mg weeks 1 &2, 35 mg weeks 2&3, 30 mg weeks 4&5, etc until the end ??


Or should I do 40 mg wk1, 30 mg wk2, 20 mg wk 3, 10 mg weeks 4-8 ???? I 'm a little confused on the tapering down. I feel dizzy at times and I'm not sure if it's low test or too much Tomaxo Nitrate.

 

[cyrex]

Dostinex may help out here

 

[njmuscleguy]

djsf is right - you need to do another PCT cycle: first off, as was said earlier, Deca remains in your system for a while... typically, for long-acting esthers (like Deca and test enth) you should wait about 2 weeks before starting your first HCG shot... at that point, do 1500 iu HCG, 3x's a week for 3 weeks... also start with Nolvadex at 20mg/day... after the 3 weeks, stop the HCG and continue the Nolvadex at 20mg/day for another 3 weeks. Also a good idea to add an aromatose inhibitor such as Aromasin or AIFM for the first few weeks... stay away from clomid... too many sides and the Nolvadex works better... the Nolvadex and the AI will keep the estrogen from rebounding during your PCT...

a general rule of thumb that I use, though this is argued heavily, is Time On + PCT = Time Off ... So if you were on for 10 weeks and PCT is 6 weeks, then you would wait about 16 weeks... your system should be back to normal by then... in that time, you can also take natural supplements like Tribulus and Maca, which help boost natural test production as well as Avena Sativa (which lowers SHBG)... this is where I'd throw in the creatine as well.

Good luck!

 

[njmuscleguy]

I was trying to figure out how much HCG you had done... do you know how many IU's (per cc) you did? I'm guessing you didn't have enough HCG... another HCG cycle should bring your guys back to normal

also, you didn't do a whole lot of deca, but it seems that it was enough to shut you down... next time, you should consider running some test with that... run more test than deca...and run it for 1-2 weeks longer than the deca... helps ease the crash.... then follow the 6-week PCT I gave ya

 

[MADBALL99]

300mg of clomid is a lot. how much mg of noval are you taking? how many iu's in 1cc of hcg? try the clomid again, but do it at 100mg for 10 days and see how you feel. how many days has it been since your last deca shot?

Days ? It's been months. Dec 23 to be exact. Started 1cc of HCG for 10-12 days about a week after that. Was shut down about 3 weeks later . Didn't get a hold of the Tomaxo Citrate until about 3 weeks ago and have been taking about 40-35 mg a day ever since. Again I had little to no knowledge of PCT, steroids, or anything. I stupidly did the 2 cycles to heal an injury and ended up shut down. Now I'm just trying to bounce back.

 

[Triple J]

bro read up on proper PCT and run it. add in some ZMA and tribulus for good measure. do not run clomid at those megadoses, 25-50mg/day is plenty. give it time. and if the serms do not work, run a ver low dose AI for a month or two, or concurrently with the SERMs if you tend towards estrogen rebounds.

 

[aaron10121]

DONT LISTEN TO SELF DIAGNOSIS. i mean u can if u want but u are talking about ur health. i have the same exact issue as u. the endocrinologist is the first step. also possibly a urologist. yes it does take time to see specialists. it sucks but u are going about it the right way. dont take the test until u find out that is the true problem. then you would be talking about test replacement therapy, which u will be on for the rest of ur life.
as far as someone on here telling u to take cialis or viagra, that has absolutely nothing to do with no libido.. thats for ED. there could be many factors, sleep apnia, depression, low t levels, many many things. get these tests done first. the endo will ask u for these tests so go get them now if u dont want to wait. that way u can take to endo and see what he says.
free and total test, tsh, lh, fsh, estradiol, prolactin, shbg, cbc, dhea, and igf
These can be done through ur primary care physician or at quest.
i, myself came off a fina test cycle about 9 months ago and unfortunately have never recovered so now am in the same boat. pm me if u need more info. tho unfortunate to hear other people go through the same thing, is good to know others are going through the same thing u are!!!

aaron

 

[Swoolen_Puppy]

congratulations...

you have Deca-Dick!

LMFAO Thats sum funny shit I had deca-Dick once and thats all it too for me to never touch that shit again! I was shut down hard. I did a pct and added some tribulus and I was good after a few weeks.
S_P

 

[MADBALL99]

Doesn't HCG and Test further shut down natural test production ??

 

[djsf]

Doesn't HCG and Test further shut down natural test production ??

Yes, temporarily, but restoring full function of your testicles outweighs that. Normal test production resumes in a few weeks at full instead of partial capacity.

 

[djsf]

Here's what happened bro...

You did a long acting compound that stays ACTIVE in your body for about 45 days. You finished up, did your PCT and then after it was over... guess what? The deca was still active... so in a nutshell, it shorted out anything the PCT accomplished when you came off. During the PCT your jumpstarted your system again only to end it and then your body still react to the residual Deca still in your system, so it shut down again.

I am not the expert here, but I would say take a small dose 100mg of test cyp or enan weekly to help you with your axis. You need some test. Not for muscle but just for normal system function.

Bingo, AAP is exactly right. People don't realize this, but the long-acting nature of Deca means it gradually builds up for weeks and weeks in your system, and it needs the same amount of time to work itself out of your system. Many people start their PCT too early, often starting and finishing it before the level of deca has declined below the anabolic threshold at all!

Here is a rule of thumb I came up with for when to start your PCT on a Deca cycle that is 8 weeks or longer. This is based on experimenting with an androgen blood-level model (available at http://bulkmuscle.com/pct/index.php). The idea is to start PCT just before the blood level of androgen drops below the normal range testosterone levels would be at in a healthy male:

200mg/week: Start PCT 1-2 weeks after last shot (14 days to baseline)
400mg/week: Start PCT 3-4 weeks after last shot (26 days to baseline)
600mg/week: Start PCT ~4 weeks after last shot (30 days to baseline)
800mg/week: Start PCT 4-5 weeks after last shot (34 days to baseline)

On mega doses of deca, you can see a very long wait is needed for the active gear to clear your system. Basically after the end of your cycle, you get back the portion of time at the start of the cycle where you waited for the gear to kick in. That extra time at the end must be accounted for.

 

[ego boner]

this is a sad case of no research and health risk.... run a REAL pct and you should start your testicles up again, eat healthy, protein, and red meat(lowfat), clomid should work best

 

[MADBALL99]

Could someone explain how HCG causes your testes to produce natural test ? I thought HCG was a natural test suppressent. How does the body begin it's own production from or after HCG ? Is this where Nolva or Clomid come in ? I also had low LH and FSH levels. Would HCG help this along as well ? Also, what's the best dosage for HCG and how often, and for how long ???

 

[MADBALL99]

Someone suggested that an endo might just put me on some topical test cream (andro ?) for a while until my body regulated itself (which could take months). What do you guys think ? Also my last deca shot (after a 2month cycle of 1cc aweek) was on Dec. 23. I've kept a good bit of muscle and strength. Do you guys think the Deca is still very active in my system at this point ?

 

[tin2]

I had that problem before ...I took a small straight test cycle after followed up with clomid .. and everything was fine

 

[solidspine]

It doesn't always happen, but this is classic with deca. The only REAL solution is time, and don't worry so much.

 

[Jayhawk21]

I'm sure I'm in the minority but I actually like having no libido because then I have no need for chicks and wasting time with them. It would be nice if I could reproduce asexually. How cool would it be to cut off a finger, throw it on the ground, and it grows into an offspring then my finger just grows back.

 

[KD1]

How cool would it be to cut off a finger, throw it on the ground, and it grows into an offspring then my finger just grows back.

Thats pretty freaky man. I kinda like doin it the old fashioned way myself.

 

[ego boner]

I'm sure I'm in the minority but I actually like having no libido because then I have no need for chicks and wasting time with them. It would be nice if I could reproduce asexually. How cool would it be to cut off a finger, throw it on the ground, and it grows into an offspring then my finger just grows back.

That boy aint right, how can you not LOVE the pussy????!!!

 

[MADBALL99]

I still have the acne on my back (which wasn't there before) and I pump up real easy when working out (wasn't like that before either). Would this be a result of residual muscle or is the deca still very active in your opinion(s)? remeber my last shot was Dec.23....

 

[njmuscleguy]

I still have the acne on my back (which wasn't there before) and I pump up real easy when working out (wasn't like that before either). Would this be a result of residual muscle or is the deca still very active in your opinion(s)? remeber my last shot was Dec.23....

The deca isn't still "active" in your system after 3 months, but it can be detected for up to a year after your last shot...

To answer your question about HCG shutting down your test...

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/anthony-roberts/post-cycle-therapy.htm

Alot of good information.... in short, a good cycle consists of a proper HCG cycle (3 weeks), Nolvadex (6 weeks), and an AI (3-4 weeks)... most guys recover nicely after this PCT... after PCT is when you should get bloodwork again to determine how well your body responded to the PCT