Look what a recent M&F article said...has to be BS

[Benzi]

Not So Sweet

Have you been drinking those creatin products with added sugar? The theory, in layman's terms, was that the sugar caused insulin release, which increased the muscles' absorption of creatine. According to a recent study published in the Journal of Applied Physiology, however, after the second day of consuming the creatine/sugar combo, the advantage of adding carbohydrate to increase the uptake of creatine was lost. At that point, taking regular creatine monohydrate powder would be just as effective ... (Muscle and Fitness, 44)

Although creatine is a sup, i think that everyone on both the anabolics and sup boards should know this. I don't know what to think... possibly the article isBS. I have been taking creatine/dextrose for years now, i really hope it wasn't a waste.

 

[Testoman]

yes this is true.

on top, you should know that dextrose was always administered 30 minutes after taking creatine, NOT together in one solution. the reason is, that dextrose peaks earlier in the blood than creatine does.

i bet that companies like MuscleShit and EAS don't want you to know that. the supp industry is one BIG scam.

Testoman

 

[riskybizz007]

Testoman said it right, i agree. Since i heard about this theory few months ago i believed it, now there's proof. I'm sure cell-tech people are pretty pissed on that article, but f- it, i'm sick of these companies ripping people off.

 

[Thaibox]

I've always considered myself pretty knowledgable about this topic(insulin spike/absorbtion), but why the fuck haven't I ever thought of this?? EAS and Muscletech can blow me.
Grrrr, ignorance was bliss

 

[riskybizz007]

I read this on another board, it made sense to me the way they explained it, and never took creatine the same again.

 

[foreverblast2]

so what's the deal? can someone explain the theory here?

john

 

[Benzi]

Bump -- Have we been wasteful jackasses?

 

[MonStar1023]

Bullshit I dont believe that.. and if it has any actual fact and reason behind it what's the ideal way to supplement with creatine?

Creatine postworkout with protein and then wait 30 minutes and take your dextrose??

 

[Testoman]

Two creatine researchers, Steenge and Greenhaff have demonstrated several times that you should always consume dextrose some time after creatine. One example is the following studie:

'Protein- and carbohydrate induced augmentation of whole body creatine retention in humans'

Published in the Journal of Applied Physiology, Vol. 89, Issue 3, 1165-1171, September 2000.

Here is an excerpt from this study:
"The 30 minute delay between the creatine and subsequent treatment fluid ingestion (dextrose drink) enabled plasma creatine concentrations to rise above the Km for muscle creatine transport. Furthermore, we have previously shown that this procedure produces peak creatine and insulin concentrations at similar time points and stimulates muscle creatine accumulation in humans.'

You guys can be assured that all supp companies who sell a creatine/dextrose are aware of this but certainly would never make any effort to tell you.


Testoman

 

[riskybizz007]

great article testo... deserves some Karma.

Monstar this is just pointing out that it takes creatine peaks at a later time than does dextrose. Dextrose being much faster, so you would want the creatine already in when the dextrose will peak. So in essence as the article stated, drink your creatine then in 30 min. drink something that will spike your insulin levels.

For example, if i'm at the gym i take the creatine towards the end of my workout, by the time i get home and have the shake sufficient time will have passed and hopefully it would be an ideal time to spike insulin and help the transport of creatine.

For other drinks you could use you might want to check out the GI chart and choose a drink w/ very high GI to drink 30min after you take in the creatine.

 

[Benzi]

Thanks for the replys testoman, riskybiz

 

[MonStar1023]

So what about protein? When should I take that?

HELP!

I am cutting so what about this... immediately after training 10g creatine + 5g glutamine... 30 minutes cardio.. 50g dextrose + maltodextrin + 20g whey..

Good or bad??

 

[riskybizz007]

That's pretty much what i do Monstar. I Put my creatine and/or glutamine in a dry bottle and when i'm close to being done i'll fill it up w/ water and down it. Finish my last exercise, or do some cardio and go home and have the shake and see what's happening on Elite Fitness lol.

Monstar are you still doing Animalbolics? If you are i guess you have to take the prescribed amounts for whey, if you weren't i'd say double your whey intake w/ the shake.

 

[MonStar1023]

So what like 40g whey protein??

 

[MonStar1023]

Immediately after training... 10g creatine + 5g glutamine in water, then 30 minutes of cardoi, and then take in 40g whey + 50g dextrose + maltdextrin combo... sound like a good idea?

 

[riskybizz007]

Yeeeeeeeeeaaah!

 

[MonStar1023]

riskybizz007-
PLEASE RESPOND ASAP

I am wondering okay if I take my 10g creatine + my 5g glutamine RIGHT after I workout.. should I take my 200 mg. ALA with my creatine & glutamine?

I am taking 2g arginine + 200 mg. ALA with my postworkout supplements and I am pretty sure its best to take the arginine with the dextrose + maltodextrin to maximize my glycogen compensation.


HELP!

 

[Testoman]

monstar, I guess I have to burst another bubble. Burke et al. have found out in a scientific study that if ALA is taken in a single dosage of 200-400 mg with or without dextrose it will NOT measurably affect insulin sensitivity or creatine transport. Much higher dosages are needed, between 1000-1500 mg. Also, if you take ALA right after your workout the potential influence of high dosage ALA on insulin, glucose and creatine is overriden by the effects of exercise on insulin sensitivity. In plain english: ALA is doing nothing after your workout and if you consume it with creatine in the middle of the day you better make sure to take in at least 1000-1500 mg of ALA. In the latest FLEX magazine you will find a similar report on page 61.

Testoman

 

[MonStar1023]

Testoman-
Then what's the IDEAL supplementation regimen??

Help me out bro if all this shit doesnt do anything.. what about arginine I understand that a few grams helps glycogen storage.

 

[riskybizz007]

I know that at 200mg it will lower my blood sugar levels b/c i feel it. Theoretically it's suppossed to transport the carbs into your muscles, and allow your muscles to fill up w/ more carbs. So your muscles should be fuller, and some would say b/c of this it is also a bit anticatabolic in the sense that you're holding onto more carbs in your muscles so this would be used before the protein in your muscles. I wouldn't take the ALA w/ my post workout shake either, to me it contradicts what you want. You want a big insulin spike and that would transport the nutrients into muscles. Add the ALA and you will (again theoretically) be using less insulin and would probobly lower your insulin spike, which is what you're aiming for. The arginine i'm still trying to find out about.

I would use the ALA just 30min. before a meal to lower blood sugar and shuttle more carbs into your muscles, and prevent those insulin spikes. You're suppossed to have a more steady insulin level w/ ALA, and this is just one reason people use it for fat loss as well.

I can't tell you what's the correct way, i can only tell you the way i do it. And that's the creatine and glutamine as previously stated, followed by 50g dextrose, 50g whey. After 1 hour i'll either have 30g whey again, or a solid meal, and w/ this second postworkout meal i'd take the ALA. I figure to take it at this time to help lower blood sugar, keep shuttling carbs into the muscle, good water and fat soluble antioxidant, and for keeping the liver happy. I'd also take the ALA w/ my preworkout meal. Sometimes muscles feel very full w/ this and you get painful pumps at times. This just indicates to me its effectiveness.

 

[riskybizz007]

Testoman i believe ALA has been used in other countries for diabetics. And some have even had success w/ it at as little as 600mg/day. 600mg/day is the minimum however and i've seen doses up to 1.2g/day as well.

conflicting research and studies... so who do u believe?

 

[MonStar1023]

I dont know what to think.. I guess I am going to drop the ALA.. what the fuck I dont even know what to buy anymore supplement wise jesus.

 

[Benzi]

So what about protein? When should I take that?

HELP!

I am cutting so what about this... immediately after training 10g creatine + 5g glutamine... 30 minutes cardio.. 50g dextrose + maltodextrin + 20g whey..

Good or bad??

Monstar, i wouldn't take your creatine and your glutamine together. I hear if you take them seperately they are a lot more useful. I think it is because one blocks the other from being full absorbed, but i'm not sure.

 

[Testoman]

Well the fact is that Burke et al were the first guys to test if ALA has any measurable effect on creatine, creatine + dextrose, insulin sensitivity and glucose transport in healthy adults who weight train. Their results were not very encouraging, at least their findings are not cost effective for the consumer.

Germany is the only country which has approved ALA as a drug for treatment of nerval pain caused by a diabetic polyneuropathy. Whatever that means, I have no clue. One thing is for sure however, in Germany it is NOT used and NOT approved to combat diabetes. I am not aware of any other country that has approved ALA as a drug.

I am not saying that ALA is completely useless. What I am saying is, that chances are extremely low that the 200 mg of ALA you find in your creatine drink is doing anyhting for you. Much higher amounts are needed.

I am always pissed when I read that this or that supplement has a special ingredient which is proven to do good but in reality the dosage you get per serving is so low, that it is not doing anyhting.
An analogy would be, that you buy a drug which claims to cure your cough because it contains a proven ingredient to remedy your cough but in reality is totally underdosed.
A drug company could never get away with somehting like that, supplement companies however do it all the time.

Testoman

 

[riskybizz007]

I've heard of Dr.'s in S.American contries using ALA to control hyperglycemia in diabetics w/ success. It may not be considered an actual drug, but it is used both in clinical and home treatment.