Long Ester Much Better Than Short Ester

[no1_brawler]

After reading about esters and half-lifes of steroids i've realised that long esters are much more effective mg per mg. Let me explain by using Testosteron Propionate and Testosterone Enanthate as examples:

Enanthate has a half-life of 10.5 days. Prop has a half-life of 4.5 days. For this example, lets say there were 2 people who wanted to use Testosterone Enanthate or Propionate for 63 days. Each person had 7500mg of each compound and each person would inject their compound every half-life.

Prop:
1st Injection: 500mg
2nd Injection: 250mg left + 500mg = 750mg
3rd Injection: 375mg left + 500mg = 875mg
4th Injection: 438mg left + 500mg = 938mg
5th Injection: 469mg left + 500mg = 969mg
6th Injection: 485mg left + 500mg = 985mg
7th Injection: 493mg left + 500mg = 993mg
8th Injection: 496mg left + 500mg = 996mg
9th Injection: 498mg left + 500mg = 998mg
10th Injection: 499mg left + 500mg = 999mg
11th Injection: 500mg left + 500mg = 1000mg
12th Injection: 500mg left + 500mg = 1000mg
13th Injection: 500mg left + 500mg = 1000mg
14th Injection: 500mg left + 500mg = 1000mg
15th Injection: 500mg left + 500mg = 1000mg

As you can see these 15 injections took 14 half-lifes which equal 63 days (4.5 days x 14 half-lifes).
The maximum level of testosterone reached in the 63 days is 1000mg.

Enanthate:
1st Injection: 1250mg
2nd Injection: 625mg + 1250mg = 1875mg
3rd Injection: 938mg + 1250mg = 2188mg
4th Injection: 1094mg + 1250mg = 2344mg
5th Injection: 1172 + 1250mg = 2422mg
6th Injection: 1211 + 1250mg = 2461mg
7th Injection: 1230mg + 1250mg = 2480mg

As you see these only took 7 injections which took 6 half-lifes which also equal 63 days(10.5 days x 6 half-lifes). The maximum level of testosterone reached in the 63 days is 2480mg.

In conclusion, you can see that after running the same amount of Testosterone (7500mg) for the same amount of time(63 days), the enanthate ester built up a Testosterone level of 2480mg while the prop only reached 1000mg. This shows why long esters are much more effectice per mg.

No_Brawler

 

[Mac173]

Interesting

 

[big greg 82]

ditto.

 

[no1_brawler]

So does every1 agree with this? And if so, why is any1 taking short esters?

 

[solidspine]

Are Tall girls better than Short girls, are brunettes pretty than blonds,


It is personal preference


Yes your technical analysis may prove long esters are more effective mg per mg but as a body builder,

If I want to use a gram of suspension I will, or a gram of Sust -250, and that will give me enough gear for the week

However I use Test E exclusively because of what you said,

Just though I would be argumentive first thing in the morning.

Good report

 

[Mac173]

Water retention and clearence times are a big issue why many choose short over long esters.

 

[big greg 82]

yes def water retention and clearance of sides is key.

 

[Vascular Freak]

with long esters test levels will build over the course of a cycle...test levels will rise much higher but so will estrogen...which results in increased water, fat storage especially in the stubborn areas...this can be controlled with AI's but a much higher amount is needed. for bulk cycles where a little fat gain is not a problem long ester test is great...but for cutting purposes prop will give good strength increases and preserve muscle without the bloat....plus most gear that people cut with are injected ed to eod so prop fits that bill as well.

i get great results with both....but for some reason prop without hardly any AI's give me better results than test e or c where higher doses of AI's are needed.

 

[no1_brawler]

Seeing that everyone agree's, wouldn't that mean that its not so important how much Test you take per week but more importantly how much test you take per half-life? A beginner taking 750mg of prop would actually have less test than another guy whos taking 500mg of enanthate per week.

 

[Vascular Freak]

Seeing that everyone agree's, wouldn't that mean that its not so important how much Test you take per week but more importantly how much test you take per half-life? A beginner taking 750mg of prop would actually have less test than another guy whos taking 500mg of enanthate per week.

most likely either case your not gonna experince many sides....but if you did it would be because of estrogen being out of whack.

 

[Anthony Roberts]

So does every1 agree with this? And if so, why is any1 taking short esters?

That's not really how they work...you've got an idea...but its kind of wrong...like...you have some facts kinda distorted....

 

[no1_brawler]

That's not really how they work...you've got an idea...but its kind of wrong...like...you have some facts kinda distorted....

care to elaborate? i really would like to be proved wrong because i started a prop cycle 2 days ago and im very pissed off coz i took 500mg of enanthate on my first cycle and gained big so im takin 500mg dis time and im thinkin i wont gain anywhere near the same coz of the lower test levels.

 

[Anthony Roberts]

care to elaborate? i really would like to be proved wrong because i started a prop cycle 2 days ago and im very pissed off coz i took 500mg of enanthate on my first cycle and gained big so im takin 500mg dis time and im thinkin i wont gain anywhere near the same coz of the lower test levels.

For one thing, the amount of actual steroid in the ML of the different esters is not the same. You get more testosterone out of a single shot of 200mgs of Prop than you do out of a shot of 200mgs of Enth.

The other thing is that blood plasma levels of an equal amount of Prop vs/ Enth are DRASTICALLY different. Check out the "Minto Studies" which are on Deca, but give you a lot of info about (similar) Esters, i.e. Phenylprop vs/ Decanoate (my Deca profile on steroid.com has all the graphs)...

When shorter esters are used (phenylpropionate vs. decanoate) there is a higher peak plasma concentration of the compound. In the case of the minto studies, nandrolone phenylpropionate caused an almost double peak plasma concentration when compared to nandrolone decanoate.

You'll note from those studies that injections in larger muscle groups (glutes vs. delts) yields higher blood plasma concentrations of the compound injected, when mg levels are the same. So you should always shoot preferentially in large muscle groups.

Also, greater mg per ml yields greater blood plasma concentrations when total mg amount is the same. So try to buy more highly concentrated gear when you can.

 

[no1_brawler]

For one thing, the amount of actual steroid in the ML of the different esters is not the same. You get more testosterone out of a single shot of 200mgs of Prop than you do out of a shot of 200mgs of Enth.

The other thing is that blood plasma levels of an equal amount of Prop vs/ Enth are DRASTICALLY different. Check out the "Minto Studies" which are on Deca, but give you a lot of info about (similar) Esters, i.e. Phenylprop vs/ Decanoate (my Deca profile on steroid.com has all the graphs)...

When shorter esters are used (phenylpropionate vs. decanoate) there is a higher peak plasma concentration of the compound. In the case of the minto studies, nandrolone phenylpropionate caused an almost double peak plasma concentration when compared to nandrolone decanoate.

You'll note from those studies that injections in larger muscle groups (glutes vs. delts) yields higher blood plasma concentrations of the compound injected, when mg levels are the same. So you should always shoot preferentially in large muscle groups.

Also, greater mg per ml yields greater blood plasma concentrations when total mg amount is the same. So try to buy more highly concentrated gear when you can.

So what would you say is more effective? Prop or Enanthate both at 500mg/week?

 

[Anthony Roberts]

I like short esters more, usually.

 

[Skoalbrother]

http://bulkmuscle.com/pct/index.php , check this out for exact measurements

 

[nydj66]

The levels of testosterone that you're refering to building up in the body are the levels of esterified testosterone that is stored in the body fat.

Esterified testosterone does absolutley nothing for you...it is inert. The esterified testosterone has to meet up with the esterase enzyme which will cleave the ester and leave the base steroid free in the bloodstream. This base steroid has about 30 minutes to work it's magic before it passes through the liver and is deactivated.

So, the amount of testosterone stored in the body is meaningless. It is only the amount that gets released into the blood per day that counts.

Therefore, shorter esters have to be injected more often than longer esters in order to get similar amounts of testosterone released per day. Apart from that, the ester does not matter at all.

 

[boston789]

For one thing, the amount of actual steroid in the ML of the different esters is not the same. You get more testosterone out of a single shot of 200mgs of Prop than you do out of a shot of 200mgs of Enth.

Yup!

 

[blut wump]

It's the esterase enzyme that cleaves the ester, nydj. The aromatase enzyme is the one that does the aromatizing.

These are the half-life figures I work with in days:
Ace - 1.5
Prop - 2.5
PP - 3
Enan - 4.5
Cyp - 5
Deca - 6
Undec - 7

Organon state that their Deca has a half-life of 6 days. I've seen various references indicating Enan to be 4.5. I've posted them up several times and they can be found by anyone with access to the search. Serle state 5 days for their Cyp. I can't recall where I got the others from.

roidcalc.com has a half-life calculator to play with.

As Nydj, states it's the liberated test that matters. To do a worthwhile calculation, you need to look at the difference from one day to the next with regard to the half-life decay to see how much was taken up. You then apply the ester-ratio factor, as mentioned here already, to see how much of that was hormone. You then have a figure for daily uptake.

Another thing to consider with the half-lives is that these are just average, ball-park figures, affected by concentration, site and, even, the individual.

If one takes Prop and enan each at the same mg then the prop has about a sixth more hormone.

 

[nydj66]

It's the esterase enzyme that cleaves the ester, nydj. The aromatase enzyme is the one that does the aromatizing.

.

You right, blut. That was a mistype on my part.

 

[Zyglamail]

So what would you say is more effective? Prop or Enanthate both at 500mg/week?

Longer lasting esters have longer molecular structures and thus have more mass. If you look at 2 different ester products (ie test enth vs prop) there will be less actual test in a given sample size of a longer ester product.

 

[blut wump]

Phenyl-prop, I recall, is a little out of expected sequence. It's easily cleaved but is a long ester and, IIRC, takes about as much weight as the Deca ester. I think NPP and Deca, for example, have about the same amount of hormone for a given mg of esterified hormone. They're each around 65%.

 

[no1_brawler]

I Stand corrected. i was lookin at this hole thing backwards, what i wrote was wat was left in the body and not what was used through the bloodstream.

 

[jochensa]

i am thinking you guys can half life and total mg's all u want. but the body acan only process so many mgs per day. think of the body as a motor that off the assembly line is capable of (x) of HP.add a few components/chagne fuel (suppplements/training), total HP goes up but maxes out regardless. so you could take 10g a week and still maybe only grow like a guy who is taking 1g. you would have to add more components to get max results....ie- hgh, slin, igf etc with a max still being reached no matter what.

but to answer the original post long ester do yield better results. not cuz of the build up of mg's. moreover becuase there are adjusments the body needs to make to handle the increased test. that i think take longer than the short esters allow. kind of like adding high test fuel to a car and not adjusting the air flow etc etc

 

[blut wump]

I use the information mostly just to plan my PCT with.