Liver protection

[jcam222]

I saw something today that doesnt make sense to me but then again I am still reading like hell and trying to learn. I was under the impression that while using methylated orals you should use liver protection throughout cycle. This is what I am planning on doing. I saw this quote today

"A lot of people have been using liver protectant supplements such as Silymarin and NAC to help protect their liver from damage when using methylated compounds. However, I feel that this is a bad idea. When you use compounds that increase gluthione levels in the liver, it will increase the breakdown of oral drugs, making them less effective. Although increasing liver enzymes is good for your liver, it is bad for any drugs you want to take and allow them to pass through your liver unabated. A better idea would be to use liver protectant supplements before and after a cycle to help your liver rebuild its enzymes after they have been damaged by methylated compounds.

I have no idea if using liver protectants on a cycle will inhibit gains in any significant degree, but it could. Keep that in mind when planning your cycle.

Can some of you comment on this? As it stands I still plan on using milk thistle, Tylers, vita c and e and glucorell throughout.

 

[gjohnson5]

I have no idea if using liver protectants on a cycle will inhibit gains in any significant degree, but it could. Keep that in mind when planning your cycle.

Can some of you comment on this? As it stands I still plan on using milk thistle, Tylers, vita c and e and glucorell throughout.

To be honest I think you're crazy!
I used to think like you until I was sitting in the internal medicine office and a nurse stuck a needle in me getting a biopsy of my liver... You admit that you have no idea that protecting your liver has any effect on these drugs. I wrote this in a previous post

M1t
Liver Tests while on M1t (all in IU/L) in Feb
AST 129 H
ALT 58 H
Liver Tests after M1t (but was on M1d and OHN) in Jun
AST 55 H
ALT 73 H

Here are some number from blood tests I've done while taking m1t and geting off it The AST (SGOT) number in was in feburary and I was taking 1 gram of milk thistle and 200mg of ALA a day. Even though I was taking all this liver protection , this liver enzyme as more then 3X the normal value!!! I shudder to think what damage I would have sustained if I wasn't taking milk thistle and ALA during the cycle.

My advise is , don't be silly. Gains in the gym and worth a liver transplant

 

[terrapin]

M1t
Liver Tests while on M1t (all in IU/L) in Feb
AST 129 H
ALT 58 H
Liver Tests after M1t (but was on M1d and OHN) in Jun
AST 55 H
ALT 73 H

I am curious as to why the did a biopsy with the values above. The AST is high, the ALT not too bad. People with liver problems usually have 100x those values. I admit, I would like them lower, but I can't see why they did a biopsy. BTW what did the biopsy show??

 

[macdaddy-1]

I saw something today that doesnt make sense to me but then again I am still reading like hell and trying to learn. I was under the impression that while using methylated orals you should use liver protection throughout cycle. This is what I am planning on doing. I saw this quote today

"A lot of people have been using liver protectant supplements such as Silymarin and NAC to help protect their liver from damage when using methylated compounds. However, I feel that this is a bad idea. When you use compounds that increase gluthione levels in the liver, it will increase the breakdown of oral drugs, making them less effective. Although increasing liver enzymes is good for your liver, it is bad for any drugs you want to take and allow them to pass through your liver unabated. A better idea would be to use liver protectant supplements before and after a cycle to help your liver rebuild its enzymes after they have been damaged by methylated compounds.

I have no idea if using liver protectants on a cycle will inhibit gains in any significant degree, but it could. Keep that in mind when planning your cycle.

Can some of you comment on this? As it stands I still plan on using milk thistle, Tylers, vita c and e and glucorell throughout.

I agree with you 100%-great post-great question.This is a subject that people need to look into further for sure.I tried to start this post a few days back but a certain psychotic maniac decided to fuck it all up.Hope you have more luck with it than i did.(after doin a lil research into this i found it to be true-but the tests i read about were done on mice and rats-not humans,and it didnt state what the hepatotoxic compounds actually were.IMO-if you were to attempt this,you would have to use your liver aid for some considerable time before startin on the gear to properly build up a sufficient level of repair (and/or)protection.But this is just speculation on my part.

 

[gjohnson5]

M1t
Liver Tests while on M1t (all in IU/L) in Feb
AST 129 H
ALT 58 H
Liver Tests after M1t (but was on M1d and OHN) in Jun
AST 55 H
ALT 73 H

I am curious as to why the did a biopsy with the values above. The AST is high, the ALT not too bad. People with liver problems usually have 100x those values. I admit, I would like them lower, but I can't see why they did a biopsy. BTW what did the biopsy show??

The main thing they were trying to determine if the liver is fatty,or cholestasis. I asked for it since I just wanted to know. It was a referral so I will have to go to the original doc and get the results. I just got these blood test for the second time this week. The numbers were high enough to have my doctor raise eyebrows. And as you can see by not following the advise of the original post, I was able to drop the elevation.

I can get the biopsy information on Monday

 

[terrapin]

The main thing they were trying to determine if the liver is fatty,or cholestasis.

Well, I hope all turns out well. Post or PM me the results from the test, I would like to be able to correlate those numbers with a docs prognosis.

 

[John C Calhoun]

Relax everyone,

Aspartate aminotransferase (AST) should be around 5-50 IU/L, while alanine aminotransferase (ALT) should be about 7-60 IU/L. People with serious liver disease (hepatitis, cirrosis etc.) often have levels several thousand times these amounts.

AST and ALT are sensitive indicators of liver damage from different types of problems, but higher than normal levels of these liver enzymes are not necessarily indicative of liver disease. Many things will elevate these enzyme levels including methylated AAS like M1T; however, the most notorious cause of high readings are alcohol. Others include ibuprofin, aspirin etc.

If your levels are 100 times these normal levels after you come off (and you are not drinking a six pack every night) then you can be concerned. Bottom line lots of things stress the liver, but as a rule of thumb, alcohol is probably the mst serious and most often used/abused.

 

[chordz]

Relax everyone,

Aspartate aminotransferase (AST) should be around 5-50 IU/L, while alanine aminotransferase (ALT) should be about 7-60 IU/L. People with serious liver disease (hepatitis, cirrosis etc.) often have levels several thousand times these amounts.

AST and ALT are sensitive indicators of liver damage from different types of problems, but higher than normal levels of these liver enzymes are not necessarily indicative of liver disease. Many things will elevate these enzyme levels including methylated AAS like M1T; however, the most notorious cause of high readings are alcohol. Others include ibuprofin, aspirin etc.

If your levels are 100 times these normal levels after you come off (and you are not drinking a six pack every night) then you can be concerned. Bottom line lots of things stress the liver, but as a rule of thumb, alcohol is probably the mst serious and most often used/abused.

True enough. It is safe to have 2 drinks of alcohol everyday however.

 

[gjohnson5]

Relax everyone,

Aspartate aminotransferase (AST) should be around 5-50 IU/L, while alanine aminotransferase (ALT) should be about 7-60 IU/L. People with serious liver disease (hepatitis, cirrosis etc.) often have levels several thousand times these amounts.

AST and ALT are sensitive indicators of liver damage from different types of problems, but higher than normal levels of these liver enzymes are not necessarily indicative of liver disease. Many things will elevate these enzyme levels including methylated AAS like M1T; however, the most notorious cause of high readings are alcohol. Others include ibuprofin, aspirin etc.

If your levels are 100 times these normal levels after you come off (and you are not drinking a six pack every night) then you can be concerned. Bottom line lots of things stress the liver, but as a rule of thumb, alcohol is probably the mst serious and most often used/abused.

Thanks , that does make me feel better. But the point you raise about alcohol kinda made me mad. I'm 5/9 bout 250 and I guess 10-12% bodyfat. I got this way by busting my ass in a weight room over years of time. Not by sitting on the couch doing 12oz curls. But once you get this , that's the first assumption that is made. Stop drinking. WTF , I haven't had a drink in 4 months... I workout for leisure , not sit in a bar.

Anyway I had to go though a bit of shit once I got the first numbers, because I started talking about this to people and I hate to use the term crackhead , but that is the conclusion people come to. So you get stigmatized a bit.