This is not a flame but a general observation and advice from a newbie, considering I only have a few post's. One thing I have learned from this board and the research I have done is that Recovery and Problem solvers IE Bromo, Vitex, L-dex, ect. are almost more important than the cycle itself. I have found that they are like weapons, It is better to have and not need, than to need and not have. Best of luck, your brother in the iron game. saint7 P.S. True brothers and friends tell it like it is than to let you fall on your face.