Liberalism....

[Sushi X]

Freedom...


...of conscience

You have the right to think as you wish.

...of religion

You have the right to worship as you please. The government has no business either supporting or opposing religion in general or any specific religion.

...of speech

You have the right to express your views, whatever they may be. Only in the free marketplace of ideas can truth emerge.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Civil rights
All people are equal under the law. Any type of discrimination based on race, ethnicity, religion, disability, sexual orientation, or gender is not only inconsistent with a free and civil society, but is immoral as well.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Universal public education
Equality of opportunity requires all Americans to have access to a basic education consistent with maintaining informed citizenship and the ability to participate fully in society.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tolerance of Differences
Because we are all unique beings, with different skills, needs, and wants, we must respect the life choices of others as long as their life choices do not infringe on the rights enjoyed by other citizens.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A Social Safety Net
Recognizing that circumstances beyond mortal control play a part in all our lives, a basic social safety net shall be avaliable to all who need it, not as a permanent lifestyle, but rather as a helping hand to get back on one's feet.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Employees' Rights
We spend most of our lives working. Work is the foundation of our economy and a major part of the glue holding together communities. The employee is an equal business partner with the employer, and as such, has the right to collectively bargain for terms of employment.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Environmental Protection
Contrary to some people's opinions, it is possible to both protect the environment and sustain economic growth. We support taking all reasonable and responsible steps to protect the environment and the species contained therein.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Strong Families
The family is the primary social unit in America. It must be respected, and encouraged in all its forms. Government should make policy with this in mind.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Responsibility
With rights come responsibilities. Exercising our rights means taking responsibility for our actions, and their effects on others.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free Enterprise
The capitalist economic system is the most efficient solution to providing for peoples' wants and needs. Government's role is that of a regulator, not a controller of industry, and any regulation must only be for the good of society as a whole, and not for the benefit of any one entity.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rule of Law
Law is the framework in which society operates. There can be no society without justice. Justice means that those who commit crimes must be made to answer for them, and that the criminal code is fair and wisely constructed. When criminal actions go unpunished, respect for the law weakens. The law applies to all, including all agents of the government.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
...most importantly, Progress
Progress is what Liberalism really means; moral progress, economic progress, and social progress to benefit all humanity. This represents the path towards a better world. At its heart, Liberalism is an optimistic philosophy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and what it's not:Liberalism is not socialism
...socialism is the Government owning everything. No liberal would ever advocate such a disastrous idea!

Liberalism is not communism
...communism is everybody owning everything equally, without any government at all. Nobody advocates such a wild experiment!

Liberalism is not collectivism
...collectivism is simply a group of people acting towards a common goal. Interest groups are a form of collectivism, so are the Boy Scouts, the Army, and a football team!

Liberalism is not statism
...statism can be defined as strong central government . Every political group (other than Libertarians) advocates some form of statism.

Liberalism is not big government
...Big government is nothing more than a convenient straw man that conservatives use against liberals. Somehow social programs are defined as big government, while corporate welfare and religious indoctrination are not!


i used to think it was evil but how soon we change our minds when we realize more and more about ourselves. hope you all enjoy this little tid bit of info.

 

[Prometheus]

Freedom...
...of conscience
You have the right to think as you wish.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
...most importantly, Progress
Progress is what Liberalism really means; moral progress, economic progress, and social progress to benefit all humanity. This represents the path towards a better world.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The two statements above are contradictory --

you cannot simultaneously advocate freedom of thought and require people to hold the particular narrow view of "progress" subscribed to within "liberalism"

 

[Sushi X]

i disagree. being able to think freely is itself progress. when we live in a society that advocates freedom of thought then we live in a progressive society. it all ties in.

 

[Sushi X]

i will emphasize the free thought and progressive tie-in. all my life i was told and taught to basically think like a conservative republican. well, it's not until now i finally liberated myself from old thought and not my own thought at that. now that i can honestly feel right about what i believe in i can progress and help others progress as well. the two are inseperable.

 

[cockdezl]

That was a nice attempt at trying to define "Liberalism", but it fails in the real world applications. People/groups who acknowledge themselves as liberals do not support many of the tenets of your above definition.

Present day liberal organizations are statist, collectivist, communist leaning.

People must learn a basic concept, "people are not what they say they are, they are what they do."

 

[frorider6]

Liberals are no fun in bed. Republicans are freaks!

 

[Sushi X]

i'm glad you enjoyed it. you can view it at www.turnleft.com

i'm also glad to see you are so enlightened that you view liberals in such ways. tell me though, what's your idea of conservatism? please, enlighten us.

fro, always the comedian.

 

[Prometheus]

it's too bad that the term "liberalism" has been adopted by the left and attached to a mindset that is essentially a coward's communism. when it was first used it did refer to a liberal point of view, more what is now called "libertarianism"

modern "liberalism" in the political context is anti-liberal in that sense -- it suports confiscatory tax increases, coerced wealth redistribution, judicial activism, oppressively large government, centralized social planning, and mind control through measures such as "political correctness," "hate crimes" legislation, and the revision of disapproved historical information.

 

[JohnyJuice]

Sushi, what the fuck man? You cant be serious. you are a liberal now? Are you kidding me? Liberalism by definition may be all those things you stated above, but in practice it isnt even close. Yes it is Socialism. No it is not treating everyone equally, etc. And i seriously hope you are joking with that little Gore2004 shit in your signature. That man (i use the term only meaning his gender) is a lame, spineless hoe.

 

[Sushi X]

johnny, i thought i was conservative. the views i had were'nt all my own. a slight few were and are but the majority of what i used to think was my beliefs were that of my family and church. where i come from it's expected of you to be conservative in your views. i sat back too long in the closet and kept my mouth shut. then i woke up one day and realized who i am. i'm not far left just slightly to the left.

prometheus, i disagree. liberalism is not socialism or communism. socialism is where the government owns it all and distributes according to need. communism is everyone has equal ownership and there is no real defined central government only those who control the military and police force.


confiscatory tax increases, that's what libertarians call it. i agree taxes are too high and could be lowered but they are neccesary.

coerces healthcare redistribution- well, not really. everyone deserves healthcare, not everyone can afford it. many americans work 40+ hrs a week in jobs that don't offer healthcare insurance. the idea that those who are offered it deserve it more is obsurd. what about children in families that don't have insurance? should they suffer because of their parents job not offering it. absolutely not. i will pay for my healthcare out of pocket as long as i have to, but if the otpion ever comes up for me to take out 5% more of my taxes for me to have inusrance, be it from uncle sam or blue cross, i'll opt for it.

i'm not much into political correctness and the categorizing of crimes as hate crimes and such, a crime is a crime.

if liberals are for more government then why is bush increasing the government with more cabinets? why is the admin proposing "security" measures that infringe on my civil liberties and my rights? that's more or less an opressively large government.

 

[danielson]

johnny, i thought i was conservative. the views i had were'nt all my own. a slight few were and are but the majority of what i used to think was my beliefs were that of my family and church. where i come from it's expected of you to be conservative in your views. i sat back too long in the closet and kept my mouth shut. then i woke up one day and realized who i am. i'm not far left just slightly to the left.

prometheus, i disagree. liberalism is not socialism or communism. socialism is where the government owns it all and distributes according to need. communism is everyone has equal ownership and there is no real defined central government only those who control the military and police force.


confiscatory tax increases, that's what libertarians call it. i agree taxes are too high and could be lowered but they are neccesary.

coerces healthcare redistribution- well, not really. everyone deserves healthcare, not everyone can afford it. many americans work 40+ hrs a week in jobs that don't offer healthcare insurance. the idea that those who are offered it deserve it more is obsurd. what about children in families that don't have insurance? should they suffer because of their parents job not offering it. absolutely not. i will pay for my healthcare out of pocket as long as i have to, but if the otpion ever comes up for me to take out 5% more of my taxes for me to have inusrance, be it from uncle sam or blue cross, i'll opt for it.

i'm not much into political correctness and the categorizing of crimes as hate crimes and such, a crime is a crime.

if liberals are for more government then why is bush increasing the government with more cabinets? why is the admin proposing "security" measures that infringe on my civil liberties and my rights? that's more or less an opressively large government.

nice points

 

[Prometheus]

sushi -

I said coerced wealth redistribution - through progressive tax rates, entitlement programs, "urban renewal" projects, etc. - I agree that healthcare is a significant issue, and there may be a role for government involvement there - I'm really not sure.

as for Bush - he is a politician, and what they do is based on greed and personal profit, not on ideological principles. I was speaking of liberalism as a set of ideals or a mindset, in the abstract. all politicians attempt to increase their own power however possible, its human nature. the best you can do is to limit their power so they have less of it to abuse, and set up a system where they police and have an incentive to undermine each other.

they (BOTH sides of Congress, the President, Justice Dept., etc.) saw a great opportunity to seize power in a time of crisis, and they jumped at it with massive new spending, signing the Patriot Act, etc. The recent actions by Ashcroft and co. should be alarming to any American of whatever political party.

also I disagree about communism -- I think you'll find that communism and modern leftism differ only in degree. but that's JMHO -- I'd encourage you to read as much as you can on both sides and to come to your own conclusions.

 

[spentagn]

if liberals are for more government then why is bush increasing the government with more cabinets? why is the admin proposing "security" measures that infringe on my civil liberties and my rights? that's more or less an opressively large government.

Cabinet size hardly demonstrates a push for less freedom. But the definition of a government involves a sacrifice of some freedoms in order for protection. I highly doubt YOUR civil liberties are being oppressed.

 

[Parrottrifle]

The capitalist economic system is the most efficient solution to providing for peoples' wants and needs. Government's role is that of a regulator, not a controller of industry, and any regulation must only be for the good of society as a whole, and not for the benefit of any one entity.

Sorry, I'm not a Keynesian follower. It's still sad that our government uses Keynesian policy to maintain Economy. It's a way of Government trying to keep Big Bucks Boys in their pockets.

 

[JohnyJuice]

1. confiscatory tax increases, that's what libertarians call it. i agree taxes are too high and could be lowered but they are neccesary.

2.coerces healthcare redistribution- well, not really. everyone deserves healthcare, not everyone can afford it. many americans work 40+ hrs a week in jobs that don't offer healthcare insurance. the idea that those who are offered it deserve it more is obsurd. what about children in families that don't have insurance? should they suffer because of their parents job not offering it. absolutely not. i will pay for my healthcare out of pocket as long as i have to, but if the otpion ever comes up for me to take out 5% more of my taxes for me to have inusrance, be it from uncle sam or blue cross, i'll opt for it.

3. i'm not much into political correctness and the categorizing of crimes as hate crimes and such, a crime is a crime.

4. if liberals are for more government then why is bush increasing the government with more cabinets? why is the admin proposing "security" measures that infringe on my civil liberties and my rights? that's more or less an opressively large government.

Answers....
1. Of course taxes are to high. If we cut out all the shit we blow money on every year, do any of you realise how much better things would be for us? Do you realise how much money we would all have in our pockets? Out of all the money you earn and spend all year, around (60-70%) will go to the government in the form of one tax or another. Yes we need taxes, but our citizens are taking an ass pounding everyday and are bending over and accepting it.

2. What makes you think everyone deserves healthcare? No one deserves a damn thing in this world. Is that a nice reality? no. Is it reality? yes. I would love to see everyone be cared for as well, and i am all for figuring out a way to do so, but please dont sit there and say everyone is entitled to it. No one owes anyone a God damn thing in this world, remember that Sushi. Because i have a house, is everyone else entitled to a home? No. Some people have boats, i dont have one. Am i entitled to owning a boat? Hell no. Healthcare is a service, just like any other. Do you thinkk you are entitled to having your yard mowed?

3. Agreed. the concepts of political correctness and hate crime legislation are some of the stupidest ideas to ever come around. It baffles me that this bullshit wasnt laughed at and lit on fire when the written bills hit the house floor.

4. Why is Bush doing this and that, you ask? I have news for you. There ar very few conservatives left. Bush is not one of them. He is a leftist. Yes, he does exibit some conservative qualities, but he is a liberal. And as pointed out earlier (by Prometheus i believe), the vast majority of politicians are worthless scumbags.

 

[Sushi X]

Cabinet size hardly demonstrates a push for less freedom. But the definition of a government involves a sacrifice of some freedoms in order for protection. I highly doubt YOUR civil liberties are being oppressed.

for now you are right, my civil liberties are'nt being infringed upon, cause i'm white mainly. the time will come when they will start to impose policy that will start limiting you freedoms and civil liberties.

i have'nt ever really cared for ashcroft in the first place. he's too much the type who feels what's right for him is right for us all. i did'nt like reno either. when government becomes a religious organization it then violates what the constitution protects us from, government sponsored religion. not everyone is christian. not everyone believes everything christians do, especially not ashcroft. i think we need to watch him closer. something tells me he's going to start making decisions not in the best interest of the populace.

 

[JohnyJuice]

Bump, cause liberalism blows goats.

 

[cockdezl]

for now you are right, my civil liberties are'nt being infringed upon, cause i'm white mainly. the time will come when they will start to impose policy that will start limiting you freedoms and civil liberties.

i have'nt ever really cared for ashcroft in the first place. he's too much the type who feels what's right for him is right for us all. i did'nt like reno either. when government becomes a religious organization it then violates what the constitution protects us from, government sponsored religion. not everyone is christian. not everyone believes everything christians do, especially not ashcroft. i think we need to watch him closer. something tells me he's going to start making decisions not in the best interest of the populace.

This is interesting. I notice how leftists fear Ashcroft's religion, since they feel that it may influence his decisions, yet they have no problem with Reno (who never mentioned her religious preference, if any) giving the orders to raid the Koresh compound, killing, what was it? 80 something people.

Reno's actions are not a problem with the left, yet Ashcroft's personal belief is the end of the world.

 

[Sushi X]

read my text, i said i never liked reno either. especially after she gave the order to invade that house in miami with the gonzales kid. she did'nt have the best track record either. i'm christian but i'm not one who feels imposing beliefs on others is right. i'll share them if given the chance but i won't impose. i think that's what ashcroft is doing. imposing what he feels is right for him is right for us all based on his religious beliefs.

 

[danielson]

This is interesting. I notice how leftists fear Ashcroft's religion, since they feel that it may influence his decisions, yet they have no problem with Reno (who never mentioned her religious preference, if any) giving the orders to raid the Koresh compound, killing, what was it? 80 something people.

Reno's actions are not a problem with the left, yet Ashcroft's personal belief is the end of the world.

all left leaning people agree with reno's actions? not all of them would, not all of them would agree with that blunder......what the party line is is a different thing to what all liberals in the US would believe i imagine


also reno's handlng ofthe matter and its probably not just her to blame) affected a small amount of people (not attoning for the action in anyway, but since your comparing to ashcroft). ashcrofts policies would affect millions. should all people be forced to live by his code

ultimately he's a very devout christian. should this be used against him or be an indicaion of whether he can dohis job. no

but if a very devout muslim were in the job the 'right' would probably be in convulsions

 

[Sushi X]

all left leaning people agree with reno's actions? not all of them would, not all of them would agree with that blunder......what the party line is is a different thing to what all liberals in the US would believe i imagine


also reno's handlng ofthe matter and its probably not just her to blame) affected a small amount of people (not attoning for the action in anyway, but since your comparing to ashcroft). ashcrofts policies would affect millions. should all people be forced to live by his code

ultimately he's a very devout christian. should this be used against him or be an indicaion of whether he can dohis job. no

but if a very devout muslim were in the job the 'right' would probably be in convulsions

good point.

if ashcroft keeps his personal beliefs out of this and uses only the law, the bill of rights and the constitution as his guide, he'll do a fine job. when you start using your own moral code and own personal beliefs to impose law and policy on millions, though some might agree with his beliefs, you undermind the constituion and violate people's right not to have others beliefs superimposed on them.

 

[p0ink]

i sure hope no one buys into and actually believes this propaganda. it is the biggest load of shit i have ever seen in describing the left.

Civil rights
All people are equal under the law. Any type of discrimination based on race, ethnicity, religion, disability, sexual orientation, or gender is not only inconsistent with a free and civil society, but is immoral as well.

all people are equal according to liberalism? hah! that's a crock of shit. if people are so equal, why does the left support hate crime legislation? that simply elevates one race/sexual orientation over another.

Universal public education
Equality of opportunity requires all Americans to have access to a basic education consistent with maintaining informed citizenship and the ability to participate fully in society.

liberals believe dumping even more and more money into a failing education program is the best way to fix it, because it allows them to indoctrinate young impressionable minds, plus over 55% of the dues from the NEA go towards political donations (almost always to the left), instead of using the money to fix the program.

Tolerance of Differences
Because we are all unique beings, with different skills, needs, and wants, we must respect the life choices of others as long as their life choices do not infringe on the rights enjoyed by other citizens.

tolerance for all, unless you are white, rich and christian, then none of the following apply

A Social Safety Net
Recognizing that circumstances beyond mortal control play a part in all our lives, a basic social safety net shall be avaliable to all who need it, not as a permanent lifestyle, but rather as a helping hand to get back on one's feet.

what happened to all of their talk on personal responsibility? why should other people be required to support the single mother of 4 kids who was never married? why do some families pay for health care when other people get it for free? is that fair? how can people learn responsibility if joe taxpayer is always there to bail them out of trouble?

Employees' Rights
We spend most of our lives working. Work is the foundation of our economy and a major part of the glue holding together communities. The employee is an equal business partner with the employer, and as such, has the right to collectively bargain for terms of employment.

what about employer's rights? surpingly enough, your boss has a family and bills to pay, does he not have any rights? liberals are constantly bent on raising the minimum wage without giving a fuck if it hurts the person employing the people.

Environmental Protection
Contrary to some people's opinions, it is possible to both protect the environment and sustain economic growth. We support taking all reasonable and responsible steps to protect the environment and the species contained therein.

this is the biggest crock of shit from all the disinformation you spewed above. they arent interested in protecting the environment, they are interested in the downfall of capitalism. why arent the environmentalist left all up in arms when other countries drill for oil, but when we want to, all hell breaks loose? did you know since DDT was banned 30-60 million people in third world countries have died from malaria? they banned it because they thought it was affecting the eggs of various birds. they believe everything should come before people and the economy. fuck that shit. next..

Strong Families
The family is the primary social unit in America. It must be respected, and encouraged in all its forms. Government should make policy with this in mind.

then why were they in such opposition to Bush's marriage plan giving incentives for people to get married and stay that way?

Responsibility
With rights come responsibilities. Exercising our rights means taking responsibility for our actions, and their effects on others

yeah right. more welfare, more medicaid, more benefits for the 'less fortunate' at the expense of others, more leanient laws regarding prison and death penalties. fucking laughable. they demand responsibility from only certain groups, ie. rich white people. look at what happened with enron. they demanded to know what happened and what money went where and who got it since it hurt so many people (boo-hoo ) but yet there was over 17billion lost last year and congress has no idea where it went. maybe they should apply their rules of conduct to themselves as well.

Free Enterprise
The capitalist economic system is the most efficient solution to providing for peoples' wants and needs. Government's role is that of a regulator, not a controller of industry, and any regulation must only be for the good of society as a whole, and not for the benefit of any one entity.

they are right about that, but they believe in the complete opposite. they are against people becoming successful and try to punish them for acquiring a large amount of wealth. look at what the are doing the tobacco companies, microsoft, shit, even walmart is coming under fire by them. this is the only country i know that is bent on punishing success. give me a fucking break.

Rule of Law
Law is the framework in which society operates. There can be no society without justice. Justice means that those who commit crimes must be made to answer for them, and that the criminal code is fair and wisely constructed. When criminal actions go unpunished, respect for the law weakens. The law applies to all, including all agents of the government.

you mean they agree with keeping the scum and filth not only alive, but making taxpayers pay for their food, lodging, play time, education, law suits for not being able to get porn, etc. the son of a bitch could rape and murder a bus full of elderly blind women and he would still get 'life' (and be out in a few years on parole), instead of sentencing him to death. look at countries that have strict laws, you dont catch people fucking around there like they do in America.

...most importantly, Progress
Progress is what Liberalism really means; moral progress, economic progress, and social progress to benefit all humanity. This represents the path towards a better world. At its heart, Liberalism is an optimistic philosophy.

if they mean progress on a downward spiral, then they are absolutely correct.

think for yourself before buying into this blatant propaganda.

 

[Sushi X]

i will adress some of the above statements.

Bush's marriage insentive. well for one, why give insentives to get married and stay that way. sounds to me more like bribary. you talk about wasting money, this is one of them. marriage should be done out of love and commitment not insentive.

more welfare, medicare, medicaid, ect. i agree there are some on welfare who don't need to be and some that simply can't work. if there was a way to find out who's who that'd be great. instead of doing as many conservatives would like, cut them off and let them fend for themselves, we should educate them and give them job training. if those who are on it that can work refuse, then cut them off.

on a side note of welfare, what about republicans and corporate welfare? i've always hated that. a corporation screws around, loses money, cuts jobs by the thousands, and yet they get bailout, courtesey of jo taxpayer.

employees are the backbone of a business whether it be large or small. yes, you can get rid of them but then you have to hire more, work them to death and pay them meager means and they will eventually leave or protest. keep it up and you lose customers. why work people to the bone, pay them meager means and offer them no benefits? i'll tell you why, profit. it's a numbers game. i'm fairly lucky, i started out last year at my current job(feb 2001) and now i'm making 1.25 more an hour than when i started. why? i work hard, show up on time, and get my job done right. i even take up the slack for others at times. i get nothing more than a paycheck every two weeks. the only thing i'd change is health insurance. it won't happen casue of the fact that we don't keep people that long so why offer it.

the one thing that has always disturbed me about conservatives, and not all think this but a great deal do, is the white man oppression. come on, how are white men oppressed? just because they don't dominate the world any longer does'nt make them oppressed, only what the declaration of independce and our constituiton state, all men are created equal. and by men i mean mankind.

using emotion and your religious beliefs to determine how to run a country is only going to regress us and make us weak. using logic and understanding will make us stronger and keep us moving forward.

to the conservatives, i'm not going to attack you or demoralize you in any way. we are all civil here and will debate civily. i posted this for fun. i did'nt think it would get this kind of response. let's see where it goes from here.

 

[Lao Tzu]

think for yourself before buying into this blatant propaganda.

i take it you took that from

http://www.turnleft.com/libstand.html

1. Civil rights.
what about gay marriages? or trying to end racism in the 60's. Almost all anti-semitism, homophobia, sexism & racism were supported by conservatives. There aren't many liberal homophobic sexists. Perhaps i am wrong, i don't know.

3. Tolerance
true

4. Safety Net
In the long run, helping people may be better economically then abandoning them. I know a single mother who i go to college with who is a pre-med student. I don't know if she collects welfare, but if she does, and the welfare was cut, she would have to quit being a pre-med student and get a job at McDonalds.

7. Responsibility
I don't know where you got your info. Rich white people can do pretty much whatever they want and not go to jail for it. If a bank robber stole $500 he'd get a longer prison sentence than Enron executives who cost billions. The savings and loan scandal bailout costs taxpayers more $ than ADFC (the program that helps single mothers with kids), yet the average criminal there got like 1/3 the sentence of a bank robber.

8. Free enterprise
I think that the tobacco hatred has taken on a life of its own at this point, but it was originally about the fact that the #1 cause of the #2 killer in america (lung cancer) was continiously linked back to cigarettes, whose companies had tried for years to hide info that would inform the public about the dangers of smoking.
Microsoft is considered a monopoly, and contrary to free trade. Monopolies are anti-free trade because there is no incentive to be more productive. I've never heard about wal-mart, what happened with them.

9. Law
That is probably just a tool to appear 'tough on crime' to win votes.
10. progress
Name some constructive conservative organizations. Since conservatism is the desire to return to the 'old ways', and liberalism is the desire to live under the 'new way', all progress (i.e., changing a flawed system) is therefore liberal, unless the new system is worse than the old one.

 

[huntmaster]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Civil rights
All people are equal under the law. Any type of discrimination based on race, ethnicity, religion, disability, sexual orientation, or gender is not only inconsistent with a free and civil society, but is immoral as well.

actually liberals support 'affirmative action', thus supporting reverse descrimination---they are in effect spinning thier wheels on this issue and have been for many years. Too afraid to stand up for what they know is right and instead decriminating against those who are not in the minority--of course Jesse Jackson would say, if you are not in the minority--it is impossible for you to be descriminated against. Well, I dont live in his world of bullshit--I live in reality, and reality tells me that affirmative action is reverse descrimination.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Environmental Protection
Contrary to some people's opinions, it is possible to both protect the environment and sustain economic growth. We support taking all reasonable and responsible steps to protect the environment and the species contained therein.

bullshit--the liberals cant see the forest for the trees on this issue. they spend so much time fighting hunters when hunters do more for wildlife than liberals abroad. Liberals do not deal with the true 'nuts and bolts' of the issues---just what will get them votes at face value--thats all they care about.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Strong Families
The family is the primary social unit in America. It must be respected, and encouraged in all its forms. Government should make policy with this in mind.

Damn Sushi--you dont really believe that do you??????

If the family is so important to the liberals then why are they so willing to sacrifice the family for holywood.

This one is a no-brainer

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rule of Law
Law is the framework in which society operates. There can be no society without justice. Justice means that those who commit crimes must be made to answer for them, and that the criminal code is fair and wisely constructed. When criminal actions go unpunished, respect for the law weakens. The law applies to all, including all agents of the government.

I call bullshit once again--liberals dont care about justice, they care about rehabilitating criminals. Y'all know that dont ya!!!!!
They are against the death penalty---justice, ha!

Liberalism is not big government
...Big government is nothing more than a convenient straw man that conservatives use against liberals. Somehow social programs are defined as big government, while corporate welfare and religious indoctrination are not!

uh huh--wriiiigggghhhhttt.
vast right wing conspiracy, hay.



-----------------
A final thought----

Liberals care about the American Family??? The proof is in the puddin!!!!

Maybe the homosexual manufactured family.

 

[danielson]

too much to quote here

poink- we pay for criminals to live at our expense. very true. it costs more to put them to death. the US will spend more on legal processing for the candidate to be put to death than it would to keep him alive for the rest of his life. and how many have been sentenced to death wrongly. many people have been sentenced to death only to be set free, how many didnt get appealed? why is their supposed racial bias in who gets the death penalty?

environmentalism....i truly hope not every right winger feels this way but to be honest i suspect most american ones do. take a look at whats happening in the world. look at texas. respiratory illnesses are up around industrial plants allowed to self regulate by then governor bush. but i guess enforcing environmental protection and protecting people lives is tree hugging right? we cant let them stffle economic progress can we. hell why dont we just let them tip toxic waste into the middle of a forest. who goves a shit about the animals. environmental protection is 100% necessary of we are gonna live on this planet. but never mind lets just let nuclear plants tip their waste into the river as opposed to process and storing it safely. neer mind that radiation is what we will be eating in a few years tme

DDT....if i roasted your body down you would have DDT in you. whats that you say, you;ve never been close to DDT in your life? well guess what, its takes YEARS for the stuff to break down. it also accumalates, and causes all kinds of nasty shit nculding birth defects. thats why whe t was banned the emphasis moved from pesticides that may hurt people and animals to pestcides that break down faster, an example being organophosphates.

'allowing the brds to die' would have HUGE effects on lots of different species, this planet is based on delicate balances

discrimination- yes, AA is discriminatve, and io have huge reservations about it. maybe if the conservative governments had done something about it at the time.....but yes the liberal left does suffer from over PC'ness at times

certain crimes deserve rehab, other don't. but to condemn all people to prison when they could be helped out of their misery (say drug addiction) is a better idea than keepng them in prison and then releasing an addct

 

[Sushi X]

hunt, like i said, i'm not in 100% of everything liberals do and say. i do not believe in affirmative action as it is reverse discrimination. what i do believe in is equal opportunity. i don't care if you are black, white, purple or green, if you are qualified to do the job then i'll give you a chance.

i do believe hunters have a right to hunt. i still hold to my views on the 2nd ammendment.

to be honest, it's as double edge sword. i will say that the liberal stance on gays and lesbians being able to adopt and have families is good. think of this, why woud you rather that child be a ward of the state and live in an orphanage til he or she is 18 and can move on, than have him/her live in a home where they are loved and cared for? please explain the hollywood issue cause what i want to say about it may not go along with what you just mentioned.

rehabilitation, well i say punishment is the first thing. put them in jail but while there rehabilitate them. one without the other is not going to get the job done.

danielson, good points made. we do need to have stricter EPA guidelines and hold everyone accountable. we are going to end up killing ourselves by destroying the planet. forget a comet, man's biggest threat is himself.

 

[JohnyJuice]

I would just like to thank darktooth for giving me bad karma. At least you signed it bitch.

 

[cockdezl]

i sure hope no one buys into and actually believes this propaganda. it is the biggest load of shit i have ever seen in describing the left.

Civil rights
All people are equal under the law. Any type of discrimination based on race, ethnicity, religion, disability, sexual orientation, or gender is not only inconsistent with a free and civil society, but is immoral as well.

all people are equal according to liberalism? hah! that's a crock of shit. if people are so equal, why does the left support hate crime legislation? that simply elevates one race/sexual orientation over another.

Universal public education
Equality of opportunity requires all Americans to have access to a basic education consistent with maintaining informed citizenship and the ability to participate fully in society.

liberals believe dumping even more and more money into a failing education program is the best way to fix it, because it allows them to indoctrinate young impressionable minds, plus over 55% of the dues from the NEA go towards political donations (almost always to the left), instead of using the money to fix the program.

Tolerance of Differences
Because we are all unique beings, with different skills, needs, and wants, we must respect the life choices of others as long as their life choices do not infringe on the rights enjoyed by other citizens.

tolerance for all, unless you are white, rich and christian, then none of the following apply

A Social Safety Net
Recognizing that circumstances beyond mortal control play a part in all our lives, a basic social safety net shall be avaliable to all who need it, not as a permanent lifestyle, but rather as a helping hand to get back on one's feet.

what happened to all of their talk on personal responsibility? why should other people be required to support the single mother of 4 kids who was never married? why do some families pay for health care when other people get it for free? is that fair? how can people learn responsibility if joe taxpayer is always there to bail them out of trouble?

Employees' Rights
We spend most of our lives working. Work is the foundation of our economy and a major part of the glue holding together communities. The employee is an equal business partner with the employer, and as such, has the right to collectively bargain for terms of employment.

what about employer's rights? surpingly enough, your boss has a family and bills to pay, does he not have any rights? liberals are constantly bent on raising the minimum wage without giving a fuck if it hurts the person employing the people.

Environmental Protection
Contrary to some people's opinions, it is possible to both protect the environment and sustain economic growth. We support taking all reasonable and responsible steps to protect the environment and the species contained therein.

this is the biggest crock of shit from all the disinformation you spewed above. they arent interested in protecting the environment, they are interested in the downfall of capitalism. why arent the environmentalist left all up in arms when other countries drill for oil, but when we want to, all hell breaks loose? did you know since DDT was banned 30-60 million people in third world countries have died from malaria? they banned it because they thought it was affecting the eggs of various birds. they believe everything should come before people and the economy. fuck that shit. next..

Strong Families
The family is the primary social unit in America. It must be respected, and encouraged in all its forms. Government should make policy with this in mind.

then why were they in such opposition to Bush's marriage plan giving incentives for people to get married and stay that way?

Responsibility
With rights come responsibilities. Exercising our rights means taking responsibility for our actions, and their effects on others

yeah right. more welfare, more medicaid, more benefits for the 'less fortunate' at the expense of others, more leanient laws regarding prison and death penalties. fucking laughable. they demand responsibility from only certain groups, ie. rich white people. look at what happened with enron. they demanded to know what happened and what money went where and who got it since it hurt so many people (boo-hoo ) but yet there was over 17billion lost last year and congress has no idea where it went. maybe they should apply their rules of conduct to themselves as well.

Free Enterprise
The capitalist economic system is the most efficient solution to providing for peoples' wants and needs. Government's role is that of a regulator, not a controller of industry, and any regulation must only be for the good of society as a whole, and not for the benefit of any one entity.

they are right about that, but they believe in the complete opposite. they are against people becoming successful and try to punish them for acquiring a large amount of wealth. look at what the are doing the tobacco companies, microsoft, shit, even walmart is coming under fire by them. this is the only country i know that is bent on punishing success. give me a fucking break.

Rule of Law
Law is the framework in which society operates. There can be no society without justice. Justice means that those who commit crimes must be made to answer for them, and that the criminal code is fair and wisely constructed. When criminal actions go unpunished, respect for the law weakens. The law applies to all, including all agents of the government.

you mean they agree with keeping the scum and filth not only alive, but making taxpayers pay for their food, lodging, play time, education, law suits for not being able to get porn, etc. the son of a bitch could rape and murder a bus full of elderly blind women and he would still get 'life' (and be out in a few years on parole), instead of sentencing him to death. look at countries that have strict laws, you dont catch people fucking around there like they do in America.

...most importantly, Progress
Progress is what Liberalism really means; moral progress, economic progress, and social progress to benefit all humanity. This represents the path towards a better world. At its heart, Liberalism is an optimistic philosophy.

if they mean progress on a downward spiral, then they are absolutely correct.

think for yourself before buying into this blatant propaganda.

Damn, POINK...sniff, sniff...that was beyootiful.