Karma for final thoughts....start 1/5

[JKurz1]

Ok....I'm about to finally start my 4-5th cycle...looks like sus250 at 500mg for 10 weeks w/ 200-300mg of deca for the same amount of time......then another 8-10 weeker following of EQ, T400, and Winny......I'm 6'2...185 and about 6-7%bg......would like to put on a solid 20-25lbs of lean mass over the year, could you please look at my training plan and diet and shoot me any suggestions......will start Monday....much thanks!

M - Chest/Calves
T - Back/Trps
W - Legs
T - Arms
Fri - Delts/Calves/Abs
Sat - Off
Sun - Day 1

Reps/sets will be mod - high volume....1hr max....12-6 rep range - 20-23 sets per bodypart..........Should I nix the cardio I'm doing everymorning? Thinking of training first thing (if I do, what do I eat 20 minutes beforehand) and then cardio maybe 3x week at night.......



430 - WAKE and cardio

630 - 12 EGG WHITES/2 WHOLE EGGS
1 CUP OATS
1/2 scoop of protein

930 METRX MEAL REPLACEMENT SHAKE
w/1 tbsp. flaxseed oil

1200 6 OZ CHICKEN AND 6-8OZ YAM
LARGE SALAD w/ olive oil and steamed veggiesl

230 (PREWORKOUT) PROTEIN SHAKE W/ TBS PB

430 TRAIN

530 PROTEIN/CARB SHAKE

630 6OZ CHICKEN, FEW cups of steamed veggies and
LARGE SALAD 1tbsp. olive oil


900 PROTEIN SHAKE W/ SKIM AND EGG WHITES (SLOW DIGESTING) - couple 3 handfuls of roasted nuts, veggies (Fiber) and ff dill dip..............

930 BED

1200AM LOW CARB MEAL BAR (EAS CARB SENSE)

 

[Mavy]

Hey J,

I'm not to sure on what you mean "followed by another cycle"? Do you plan on running these 2 cycles back to back (really one large cycle ... just changing supps), or 1 cycle, stop, recover, 2nd cycle later? I would personally do the second option. If you are wanting to gain 25lbs of lean mass, I would do your first cycle for strictly mass, and then the second one to lean up. The compunds you have chose seem to match this way. This way you wont be on for 20 wks straight, or maybe think of doing a dbol am morning bridge or something. I would try it somthing like this (give yourself some time, dont rush it into 20wks).

Cycle1. 10wks (for mass)
Sust: 500mgs/wk
Deca: 300mgs/wk
Dbol: 25mgs/day (wk1-3)
PCT

12 wks off training natty

Cycle2: 8-10wks (lean gainer)
EQ: 600mgs/wk
Sust: 250mgs/wk
Winny: 50mg/day (would rather use var though).
PCT

Bro, if you are 6'2" at 6%bf, you are naturally very lean, classic ecto. I would probably make 2 mass cycles and not worry so much about the cutting, unless you have worked very hard to get that lean with lots of cardio dieting etc.. I have seen that for very lean people, dbol will honestly be one of the only things that can pack solid mass on their frames (2 of my friends were VERY skinny, until they started adding dbol into their stacks). Dbol + as much protein as you can stuff in your face.

Diet didnt look too bad, I didnt tally up your totals or anything, but I think that you could add an extra meal in there or some more protein snacks. I would keep the protein as high as possible during the mass builder. Eat a lot of your daily carbs "around" your workouts too (ie before and after), dont worry about what time it is, this way your workouts wont suffer, aso these are when you will benefit from taking them the most. Also, I would for sure ditch the 4:30 am cardio, its pointless on a big mass builder like this, plus that early is just going to fuck up your sleep pattern, same with waking to take a shake at midnight. Unless you are competeing, and really need that midnight fix, I would just try to get a straight all nights sleep for maximum recovery and gh release.

Training for the mass builder I would try something like this.

Frequency: Every other day
Intensity: 4-7 reps (approx. 80-90% of 1RM) 3-6 sets
Time: 2 minutes rest (2-3 seconds eccentric phase, explosive concentric phase)
Mode: Mostly compound movements that enable heavy lifting. Pyramid up the load on each set (2-5 lbs.)

After this cycle, and PCT, I would load up on the creatine and train for complete strength up until your next cycle. Try to go into the next one as strong as possible.

Cycle 2, you can start to incorporate your cardio. Keep protein intake high as well and as lean as possible. Consume most of your daily carbs "around" your workouts again, (before and after). Get most of your other carbs from carbless carbs (ie not starrchy ones ... try more stuff like veggies). Try a different training style as well, perhaps some supersetting form. Increase the Intensity as well. PCT.

Then see how much lean gains you will have after. I would much rather go this route instead of a 20wk cycle. Break it up into 2. I think that you would have a larger net gain in weight going this way then you would doing a 20weeker straight then stopping. Just my suggestion.

Good luck,
Mavy

 

[Lift Chief]

20-23 sets per bodypart? Jesus Christ that is way too much.

Also, you've done 4 cycles and you're 6'2" 185?!

Probably because you are overtraining to high hell.

Cut the number of sets per bodypart down to 2 or 3... yes 2 or 3 (not counting warm up sets) and watch yourself actually growwwww.

Also drop the cardio and up the carbs... you are 7% bodyfat why are you following more of a cutting type diet?

 

[flex2win]

I think the diet is the first thing that needs to be addressed...you are a classic ecto, tall, lanky, small joints and long bones...this is okay if you are willing to eat right and fill it in...
I would avoid the cardio, there's no sense in burning off the xtra cals you need to consume. Second, carbs need to be btwn 400-500grams/day, mostly complex with 100 of them being simple. Protein should be the same, at least 400grams/day, try to eat as much solid forms as possible: tuna, chicken, ground beef, steak, eggs..
3-4 sets on larger groups, 6-10 reps per set.
2-3 sets on smaller groups, 6-10 reps per set..you must be willing to push your body past its threshold in order to grow. I used to weigh 130lbs when i graduated, weighed in this am at 220..good luck...

 

[Slyder190]

suggestions

Run the Sus @500mg/week for 10 weeks and the Deca @400mg/week for 10weeks and the D-bol @25-30mg/day for 4 weeks. Make sure to run l-dex @.05mg/day. have Nolva on hand and have Clomid for PCT. Worry about your next cycle later. You'll need about 15 weeks off after this cycle. I would drop the cardio in your case. Your volume is far tol high, cut it in half for starters. Try a lower volume and then a moderate volume and see what works best for you. Your diet doesn't look too bad, but you may need more calories. Try to stick to real food as much as possible. Protein sources should include, fish, eggs, turkey, chicken, lean cuts of red beef, low-fat or skim milk. Whey protein will be good post-workout as well as a small serving upon waking. I'd use a whey/cassien blend before bed. Carbs should be clean and come from whole grain and pumpernickel breads, maybe a little whole-wheat pasta, yams, brown rice, oatmeal certain fruits and of course veggies. Good fat sources include flax, extra virgin olive oil and all natural peanut butter. You need some re-vamping. You should have enough to go on though by the replies you have thus far. Any more questions...just shoot 'em out.

 

[brownpaperbag04]

well you should know how i feel about the cardio (axe it). Also if you want to put on that much mass I'd try and have at least another protien shake a day. ...and what's with the low carb bar? I'd cut it.

I also would encourage working out first thing...and keep your same preworkout shake/pb. Then maybe you could add in that extra shake around 3:00 or so.

 

[JKurz1]

Lift chief - what does 5 cycles have to do with me at 185? I was 235 2 years ago and decided to cut down to 6-7%...from probably 11-12%....I'm still benching 330 for reps and squating 315 for 10, in the bucket......I realize I'm a little on the frail side (prob. from too much cardio and low carbs) but once you get this low, it's really hard to overcome the thought of losing the abs....
Thanks to everyone else for the CONSTRUCTIVE critisim....it's much appreciated and I'll smack you with some karma......also, could you tell me where exactly you'd change/add food in my diet and what routine you would reccomend? Now that would be hugely appreciated.....I eat so strict that the one meal I look forward to is the peanuts, shake and low carb bar at night, right before bed....do I really have to ditch it? I know some of you eat late night...I think that's why I do so much cardio first thing, cause I feel guilty for eating so late.......

One final thought.....If I train first thing (which will be 5am) and wake around 4:20....is there something quick I can eat on my way to the gym, or should I just start my postworkout shake half way through my routine......hell, if I did 3-4 sets, I'd be done in 10-15minutes max....

 

[FlexManning]

Lift chief - what does 5 cycles have to do with me at 185? I was 235 2 years ago and decided to cut down to 6-7%...from probably 11-12%....I'm still benching 330 for reps and squating 315 for 10, in the bucket......I realize I'm a little on the frail side (prob. from too much cardio and low carbs) but once you get this low, it's really hard to overcome the thought of losing the abs....
Thanks to everyone else for the CONSTRUCTIVE critisim....it's much appreciated and I'll smack you with some karma......also, could you tell me where exactly you'd change/add food in my diet and what routine you would reccomend? Now that would be hugely appreciated.....I eat so strict that the one meal I look forward to is the peanuts, shake and low carb bar at night, right before bed....do I really have to ditch it? I know some of you eat late night...I think that's why I do so much cardio first thing, cause I feel guilty for eating so late.......

One final thought.....If I train first thing (which will be 5am) and wake around 4:20....is there something quick I can eat on my way to the gym, or should I just start my postworkout shake half way through my routine......hell, if I did 3-4 sets, I'd be done in 10-15minutes max....

I'll come out from a totally different viewpoint here: I think for starters you are torturing yourself eating way too clean. Also, don't beat yourself up over eating late at night. Although there is some empirical evidence for not eating late (possibly misinterpreted), some nutritionists say it's not really true. They say that the body is so good at figuring out tricks like not eating before sleep that at the end of the day what really matters more is the total calories and not the timing of the meals. Also, there are plenty of bodybuilders who feel so strongly about the benefits of eating late they purposely set alarms or take in enough liquids to wake them up so they can eat and go back to sleep. (Jay Cutler for instance.)

Might I suggest some foods that many people would consider fattening but I think have health benefits?

Number one would be a spinach salad smothered in a canola oil based dressing. Try the Good Seasons cruet mixes from the supermarket and use canola oil.

Number two would be a big juicy steak.

Number three might be- if you're not going low carb- a baked potato with trans fat free margarine.

Number four might be some type of fatty fish like sardines.

There's a lot of foods like that which may contribute something to your health that many in the eat clean crowd would decry. I also would never try to put on weight without allowing cheat meals, even if I didn't want to put on all that much fat.

As far as something to eat first thing in the morning there are a variety of choices. One classic is to just take in a little protein and pop ephedrine and caffeine. Some people might like to take in specific amino acids like glutamine. Ultimate Orange used to be great for people who like ephedra based products. You could tailor your pre-workout nutrition with various amino acids such as extra tyrosine. Some people like to have a carb source, I've even heard of people who will just eat a small piece of fruit before working out.

 

[JKurz1]

2 questions.....how would you advise switching up my diet if I decide to train first thing....also, since it's gonna be so early, I won't be able to get a meal in before......should I start my p/o shake half way through? Or should I just take some aminos and ephedrine? Much thanks..........

 

[FlexManning]

2 questions.....how would you advise switching up my diet if I decide to train first thing....also, since it's gonna be so early, I won't be able to get a meal in before......should I start my p/o shake half way through? Or should I just take some aminos and ephedrine? Much thanks..........

If you can pop some ephedrine and caffeine and start your training without starving, it's no big deal to not eat beforehand. Opinions will vary. You might try a scoop of glutamine or something like that.

I've never been able to stand eating a protein shake in the middle of training, but some guys do that. Also, some guys like to drink something with lots of simple sugars like Gatorade. The deciding factor is basically how your body reacts. Some people take in something and get in a slump. I would actually consider popping several grams of arginine towards the end of the session. This is said to help replinish carbs after training. Pouliquin recommends taking arginine after training.

And myself, I'd still make a shake after training even if I had a shake first thing in the morning. This time it would be geared more towards replenishing carbs. The easiest thing to do would be
1. ephedrine and caffeine + some sort of protein if you choose
2. train
3. 3 to 5 grams of arginine (or during training)
4. (0-30 minutes after training) post training shake
5. a little later (like on the way to work) some type of MRB. (Plus maybe some EFAs).
6. next meal= real food. I'd probably have a fat ass sandwich, but that's just me. You might like something like egg salad made with 1-2 yolks per 6 egg whites on wheat bread.

 

[Riker29]

Lift chief - what does 5 cycles have to do with me at 185? I was 235 2 years ago and decided to cut down to 6-7%...from probably 11-12%....I'm still benching 330 for reps and squating 315 for 10, in the bucket......I realize I'm a little on the frail side (prob. from too much cardio and low carbs) but once you get this low, it's really hard to overcome the thought of losing the abs....

Well, therein lies your problem.

LiftChief is correct. It will be very very difficult for you to gain like you want to, and maintain those abs that way all year.

As for "what does 5 cycles have to do with me at 185?", well that shows a relatively low amount of muscle mass for spomeone who has done 5 cycles! No problem if that is your choice, but for most guys on this board and what they work towards, 185 at your height, even with the low BF%, is relatively low.

 

[JKurz1]

I'm stil benching 350 and squatting 315 for reps, so I'm fine with my mass....People consistently guess i'm weighing 200+ and are shocked when I say 185....anyways, thanks for the replies.....were you suggesting a meal replacement bar? or a MRP?

 

[brownpaperbag04]

you need to work you legs more....jesus

you should be able to squat 2x as much as you bench if you were actually somewhat proprotional. If you're just looking to look like a badass then post on the diet forum.

 

[JKurz1]

hahah...you're a joke.....quit accussing before you have all the details....granted, my legs are my weak point but I'm still doing 315 for 10-12 (in the bucket) reps...........I'll take that for now......
"post on the diet form"......nice..........

 

[FlexManning]

I'm stil benching 350 and squatting 315 for reps, so I'm fine with my mass....People consistently guess i'm weighing 200+ and are shocked when I say 185....anyways, thanks for the replies.....were you suggesting a meal replacement bar? or a MRP?

I'm suggesting a bar at this point because of: A) simplicity B) you will have (hopefully) taken in a substantial amount of liquids at this point (and that's a good thing, but no need to strain your bladder) and C) it's time at this point to take in something solid and take in some fats, both of which will start slowing things down. At this point (depending on when you eat the bar or bars) you probably will have passed the window in which you need to spike insulin. Also the bar will be giving you the insurance of vitamins and minerals, many of which require fat for utilization which you will be supplying at this point. (There are also other advantages such as taking in some sodium.)

Various bars are available starting at less than a buck on sale, around a buck at Walmart when not on sale, and a little more for larger or marquis bars.

 

[jubei]

You really should be squatting AT LEAST as much as you bench. I mean I'm just started squatting (used to do hack squats) and I rep 365 and bench 295 for reps.

 

[JKurz1]

Anyways, so keeping this deit in tact and hitting 500mg of test and 300mg of deca or eq....(cant decide!!!) you think I should ditch the cardio? Anyone eat late night and NOT train early in the am or do cardio?