i did winny 50mg ed for 6 months long before i had a clue what the fuck i was doing. i don't count it as a cycle just a mistake that i learned from. i was copying my friend who is 205 6-7% bf year round. he was puttin up 475 no problem and he told me winny was harmless with no sides. he stayed on for 2 years straight and his only problem was low blood platelettes, no bp or liver problems. i was fine too but never would do that again. i really didn't know winny was toxic back then. still i am suspect about how toxic they really are. also var is used in some liver treatments so it can't be that stressful on the liver. tbol less toxic that dbol about the same as winstrol. i think if you take tylers you will be ok and drink two gallons o water a day, no cheating. its your liver the second most important organ take care of it