Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
Income Tax
- Thread starter bigguns7
- Start date
W
Warik
Guest
Nation-wide sales tax.
I'd rather pay an extra 15% on what I do spend than pay 40% on what I don't spend.
-Warik
I'd rather pay an extra 15% on what I do spend than pay 40% on what I don't spend.
-Warik
Abolish Social Security, let each person be responsible for their own retirement. That way, when I die in about 15 yrs, I can give the money I save to the degenerate children I have and not to the government to fund some idiot who cannot manage his money well enough to retire.
I support a flat tax rate of 8-10% and the eventual complete privatization of at least 75% of Social Security.
I'm also against welfare, Medicare, and Medicaid. The thought of modern, Socialized medicine makes me cringe...
The "Death" and "Estate" taxes should also be repealed, and the CAPITAL GAINS TAX CUT...LIKE TODAY OR TOMORROW!!! If you invest, you'll understand the last point...
Citizens should be required to pay for 1)national defense, 2)upkeep (meaning roads, etc.), and 3)salaries of their representatives (which holds said ELECTED officials accountable!!)...nothing more!
I'm also against welfare, Medicare, and Medicaid. The thought of modern, Socialized medicine makes me cringe...
The "Death" and "Estate" taxes should also be repealed, and the CAPITAL GAINS TAX CUT...LIKE TODAY OR TOMORROW!!! If you invest, you'll understand the last point...
Citizens should be required to pay for 1)national defense, 2)upkeep (meaning roads, etc.), and 3)salaries of their representatives (which holds said ELECTED officials accountable!!)...nothing more!
bigguns7 said:
the "benefits" depends on one's perspective. From the high tax bracket individual, the result would be a lower rate and tax. From a macro level...this is projected to lead to increased savings and investment and therefore economic stimulation. Like my comments on the national sales tax it gets much more complicated, but that is the basics.
Last edited:
ZenMachine
New member
If you are going to have a tax on my income, then don't tax me again for using that money to make other money (capital gains tax) or for giving it to someone when I die (estate tax).
If you privatize social security you will have a good portion of the populace with no retirement and will have to come up with some sort of social program to deal with that.
Zen
If you privatize social security you will have a good portion of the populace with no retirement and will have to come up with some sort of social program to deal with that.
Zen
Final comment on taxation:
I support a national sales tax. It is the only system that taxes Consumption. It is the only system where the taxpayer has the ability to "choose" whether or not to be taxed through purchasing. A flat-tax is just modified progressive tax. The rate may be lower but the individual cannot "escape" the tax and is "punished" for activities such as saving and investing, whereas in a national sales tax there would be NO tax on these activities. The tax would only arise if the individual choose to spend that money. Think about it.
I support a national sales tax. It is the only system that taxes Consumption. It is the only system where the taxpayer has the ability to "choose" whether or not to be taxed through purchasing. A flat-tax is just modified progressive tax. The rate may be lower but the individual cannot "escape" the tax and is "punished" for activities such as saving and investing, whereas in a national sales tax there would be NO tax on these activities. The tax would only arise if the individual choose to spend that money. Think about it.
B
BO-CEPHUS
Guest
bigguns7 said:
excise taxes and tariffs
tax
Abolish the income tax and stop penalizing people for earning money. Then establish a flat tax on goods purchased, so criminals and thieves all pay the same tax as honest working folks on goods as they acquire them. This kind of a system encourages people to earn money and to save money. What we have now is a fat greedy govenment hand grabbing your income before you even make any choice about how it is spent. The fact is that they don't care. And you guys who think you are only paying like 30% tax are just being stupid. Add up the social security TAX, the sales TAX, the ad velorum TAX, the state TAX, the county TAX, the toll booth TAX, and on and on and on. For example, take a look at your phone bill. It is like 80% government TAX. Why do you think your car insurance is so high? Why does gas cost so much? Our govenment gets you comming and going. My daughter is 11 years old, and if things continue like they are she will pay like 85% all total TAX throughout her lifetime. Our governement does not provide services that have value worth 50-60-70-80-90% of every man woman and childs income. Basically they suck at what they do. They haven't even found that bastard Bin Laudin yet. Come on people how hard do you think that really is? Should it cost billions and billions? Bullsht. You could send in one group of marines or one group of gorillas and knock that bastard out really quickly. They don't want to kill him. They want your money instead. Wake up. Wake up. Wake up !!
Abolish the income tax and stop penalizing people for earning money. Then establish a flat tax on goods purchased, so criminals and thieves all pay the same tax as honest working folks on goods as they acquire them. This kind of a system encourages people to earn money and to save money. What we have now is a fat greedy govenment hand grabbing your income before you even make any choice about how it is spent. The fact is that they don't care. And you guys who think you are only paying like 30% tax are just being stupid. Add up the social security TAX, the sales TAX, the ad velorum TAX, the state TAX, the county TAX, the toll booth TAX, and on and on and on. For example, take a look at your phone bill. It is like 80% government TAX. Why do you think your car insurance is so high? Why does gas cost so much? Our govenment gets you comming and going. My daughter is 11 years old, and if things continue like they are she will pay like 85% all total TAX throughout her lifetime. Our governement does not provide services that have value worth 50-60-70-80-90% of every man woman and childs income. Basically they suck at what they do. They haven't even found that bastard Bin Laudin yet. Come on people how hard do you think that really is? Should it cost billions and billions? Bullsht. You could send in one group of marines or one group of gorillas and knock that bastard out really quickly. They don't want to kill him. They want your money instead. Wake up. Wake up. Wake up !!
B
BO-CEPHUS
Guest
I do not believe in a nation wide sales tax. As I stated before, excise taxes and tariffs will cover a constitutionally limited government.
Sushi X
New member
penalizing people for earning money? last time i checked people who make more money are paying less taxes, ie people who make 100k or more a year, while people like me who make about 10k a year right not pay higher taxes. plus i am paying higher taxes b/c i am single. so i pay 26.5% taxes and get nothing from it. why? b/c my tax money is going to programs that pay for people who don't and wont' work. why should i pay for someone else to have insurance while i can't get it cause i make too much money and yet don't have the money to go to the doctor. why should i pay for someone to sit around their house and watch jerry springer all day and get paid for it while i have to work? why should i strugle to pay for my car while someone else gets to drive nice cars and not work? tell me why we should not have a flat tax rate. that would force less government spending and get these people(not restricted to a certain race, all inlcuded, and those that can work, not the diabled) up and working stimulating the economy even more and pumping more money in the long run into social security(i don't mind helping the elderly, they've done their time) and medicare. let's abolish welfare and set up better job training and parenting programs to help these people with 5 kids who collect a welfare check. it's not my fault they won't use protection or not sleep with everyone, so why should i or any tax payer pay for them. my solution, build government run daycares and get these people to job training, parent training, school or even right to work. yes, the daycare costs money but it costs less than giving out 100 welfare checks every month. my solution may not be perfect and it may cost money in the short run but in the long run it makes for a better society. i also think abolishing welfare would free up money to go to the schools and as chesty said in another post our schools are failing.
bigguns7 said:
all other purchases...the list is almost infinite...think about the state sales tax that you are now paying, the national sales tax would operate in the same manner. For example, I don't know what state you are in, but "necessary" food items are usually exempted (bread, milk, meat, etc.) but not items such as beer.
bigguns7 said:
bigguns, think about it...it is the one tax system that the rich cannot escape. You want a $200,000 mercedes, great, but you have to pay tax on it. The more money a rich person wanted to spend the more tax he would pay, but he would have the choice of when and how much tax he would pay by his purchasing decisions.
As for the poor, consider the current system...the lowest tax bracket is 15%, think how significant that amount is to an individual earning a low income. He cannot "escape" that tax. But under a national sales tax he would pay $0 in tax for necessities (food, etc) and $0 in income tax. He would also be eligible for a tax rebate if he was below a certain income level.
BO-CEPHUS said:
Bo...an excise tax is a type of sales tax...or to be more accurate...a sales tax is a type of excise tax. An excise tax is basically a tax on the SALE, use, manufacture of a commodity or activity, etc. So if you support a National "excise" tax you support a National sales tax. Sales tax is just the "laymans" term for an excise tax.
as far as tarriffs that is a different issue from income taxation. A tariff is a tax on an imported good. This is really more in the area of international trade policy and open market systems vs. a more closed nationalized trade policy.
mrbill said:
This sounds great, but what will it mean as far as how much money the government clloects in taxes each year? Are clothes a necessity? Are automobiles a necessity? I think they are, but when i think about the purchases I make each month, I think of:
1) food
2) clothing
3) entertainment
Currently I spend about $300 a month on entertainment, meaning drinks, movies, vacations, etc. If I were taxed 15% on that, I would be paying $45 dollars per month in taxes, totalling about $540 per year. That sounds great to me, but compare this with the $450 per month i pay in taxes right now, or $5,400 per year. Under the national sales tax system, I would pay one tenth the amount of taxes that I do now, and if I bought some other non-necessities, of course I'd pay more. And I do realize that others would pay much more than me, but I'm middle class with a $40,000 income as a single person. I am in line with the majority of Americans, who average about the same salary or maybe even less. How do you think the country would be run if the majority of the tax-paying population paid under $1,000 per year in taxes?
Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if this was the way things were, but i don't think our nation could stay afloat. We would say goodbye to our highways, our public schools, our state funded hospitals, and a number of other things.
I know that I'm not thinking of something in my opinions here, because I know that the national sales tax has at least been considered as a viable alternative to the graduated income tax, but I just can't see how we will be able to enjoy the same quality of life in our cities if we do it this way.
sushiX
Last time I paid my taxes I noticed that the scale was graduated, and the more income you earned, the more tax you had to pay as a percentage of your overall income. It is a false perception to think that if you earned 200K that having to pay 120K in tax is reasonable, just because you get to keep 80k of it. People deserve all of the money that they earn, and not some bullshit percentage. Why does someone else deserve ANY more money because you have sacraficed more and accomplished more? . This is a true story. I recently received a 5K raise at my job, and now my take home pay is less than it was before. This is because of our well though out and fair tax system. I moved up in the tax scale by a bracket, and that change absorbed all of my raise, and even dipped into some of my normal pay. Our government has a good scam going here don't they? Some fat cat bureaucrat, or undeserving lazy crack head, is getting a nice fat vacation each year, and I get to foot the bill. That is my reward. Income tax is a PENALTY for earning money and people should look at it that way.
Last week in the newspaper there was a story about this poor sad family looking miserably at their empty mail box because there wasn't any welfare check in it. How sad and unfair it was for them. They were very upset that their free money wasn't being delivered to their mailbox anymore. How were they going to make ends meet now? The kids had big tears in their eyes, and the big fat lazy mom and crack head dad looked exasperated. In my opinion what would be fair and just is for these kinds of people to all just lay down and die. Maybe suffering the consequences of being a lazy fat looser would motivate them or their children to change. Right now they are written up in the newspapers and portrayed as the unfortunate victim of modern culture and we send them free money in their mailbox. What absolute bullshit...
Last time I paid my taxes I noticed that the scale was graduated, and the more income you earned, the more tax you had to pay as a percentage of your overall income. It is a false perception to think that if you earned 200K that having to pay 120K in tax is reasonable, just because you get to keep 80k of it. People deserve all of the money that they earn, and not some bullshit percentage. Why does someone else deserve ANY more money because you have sacraficed more and accomplished more? . This is a true story. I recently received a 5K raise at my job, and now my take home pay is less than it was before. This is because of our well though out and fair tax system. I moved up in the tax scale by a bracket, and that change absorbed all of my raise, and even dipped into some of my normal pay. Our government has a good scam going here don't they? Some fat cat bureaucrat, or undeserving lazy crack head, is getting a nice fat vacation each year, and I get to foot the bill. That is my reward. Income tax is a PENALTY for earning money and people should look at it that way.
Last week in the newspaper there was a story about this poor sad family looking miserably at their empty mail box because there wasn't any welfare check in it. How sad and unfair it was for them. They were very upset that their free money wasn't being delivered to their mailbox anymore. How were they going to make ends meet now? The kids had big tears in their eyes, and the big fat lazy mom and crack head dad looked exasperated. In my opinion what would be fair and just is for these kinds of people to all just lay down and die. Maybe suffering the consequences of being a lazy fat looser would motivate them or their children to change. Right now they are written up in the newspapers and portrayed as the unfortunate victim of modern culture and we send them free money in their mailbox. What absolute bullshit...
Why is "helping the poor" the litmus test for how "good/bad" a tax system is?
A flat tax rate means that THE RICH DO NOT GET PUNISHED for EARNING more money than the poor...
A progressive tax rate is no different than the "Robin Hood" schemes with public schools...it is equally atrocious and socialistic...
A flat tax rate means that THE RICH DO NOT GET PUNISHED for EARNING more money than the poor...
A progressive tax rate is no different than the "Robin Hood" schemes with public schools...it is equally atrocious and socialistic...
bigguns7
We pay way more than enough money to keep everything going efficiently with regard to national security, highways, and everything. The reason our taxes are so high is because our government sucks at what it does. It is accountable to nobody and there is no competition and there is no honesty. For example, if national security were farmed out to a third party, and there was competition for the business, we would have awesome national security and it would cost about 1/1000th as much. But our government doesn't want efficiency; it doesn't want effectiveness; all it wants is to justify its existence and your money. How much do you think it costs to keep up a road anyway? I bet you personally have paid enough in taxes to keep all the roads you drive on maintained. It doesn't cost millions and billions and trillions of dollars like they want you to believe.
We pay way more than enough money to keep everything going efficiently with regard to national security, highways, and everything. The reason our taxes are so high is because our government sucks at what it does. It is accountable to nobody and there is no competition and there is no honesty. For example, if national security were farmed out to a third party, and there was competition for the business, we would have awesome national security and it would cost about 1/1000th as much. But our government doesn't want efficiency; it doesn't want effectiveness; all it wants is to justify its existence and your money. How much do you think it costs to keep up a road anyway? I bet you personally have paid enough in taxes to keep all the roads you drive on maintained. It doesn't cost millions and billions and trillions of dollars like they want you to believe.
Sushi X
New member
miles, it sucks the way things happend to you. i hope you are not justifying my high taxes. i don't understand why i pay such high taxes as i do. i make about 10k a year, when i finish school and get work in my field, i'll make about 30k a year. so then i can see paying a little more tax than i do now. so why is it i am made to work twice as hard and take home less money? that is why i am all for a flat tax rate of 10-15% across the board.
spongebob said:
NO, someone who makes more will pay more..they will just pay the same rate!!
200,000@ 20% = 40,000
30,000@20% = 6,000
How does this help the person who busted his/her ass to make a good wage??????????????????????
Why punish someone for making more money...by taxing them at a higher rate???
gotmilk
New member
I started a non-profit Foundation in my hometown. All donations made to it can be written-off as tax deductions.
We use the money to pay for food and medical services for infants of teenage parents....transportation for the elderly...etc..
Hell..I love the USA but the current administration can go fuck themselves because they ignore our own people at times. Collecting money for the Afghani kids while our own Americans go hungry and homeless.
We need to become more efficient with our tax monies and quit forking it over to other countries.
We use the money to pay for food and medical services for infants of teenage parents....transportation for the elderly...etc..
Hell..I love the USA but the current administration can go fuck themselves because they ignore our own people at times. Collecting money for the Afghani kids while our own Americans go hungry and homeless.
We need to become more efficient with our tax monies and quit forking it over to other countries.
sushiX
Hey brother it seems like we are miscommunicating in some way. Your ideas are good ones. Our government does not discern its greed, it wants all my money and it wants all your money too. When your salary goes up you will pay more tax, and you will pay more tax as a percentage of your total income. It just gets worse and worse as you earn more and more money. You end up paying more tax at a higher rate so your take home pay stays about the same. People who earn 50K have about as much money as people who earn 100K. The tax structure really compresses everyone into three categories or casts. 1) Those on the dole. 2) The working people, who actually add value to the economy and make things go. 3) The financial elite (mostly employees of the government, or indirectly sucking the government tit, like pharm lobby groups, or insurance and investment bankers and brokers)
The only way to keep more of your money is to get smart about taxes. It is more important to avoid taxes than it is to earn money. -- think about what that does for our economy -- The best idea for our country would be to tax when we buy services and products, so we can "vote" with each decision to spend. The government will want us to "vote" and will want to create an environment where people will want to spend money. That would be good for everyone. Right now our government creates an environment where it doesn't matter what you do because they just steal the money from your employer.
Did you know that income tax was put into place in order to fight WW2, and the government just "forgot" to get rid of it after the war was over like they promised. Did you know that when you die without a will the IRS is suppose to collect a 50% death TAX on your entire estate, and that there is a 75% tax on all money that you give your own children? That is why so many people bequeath money to their grandchildren. Thaink about this. After you paid tax on your earnings, and everything you ever bought, and you are dead, you still have to pay the government again for the priviledge of giving your own money or your own stuff to your own kids. Our government is very tricky and completely out of control with greed, and people who don't realize this might as well have signs on their heads that say "please rape me because I am an idiot".
Hey brother it seems like we are miscommunicating in some way. Your ideas are good ones. Our government does not discern its greed, it wants all my money and it wants all your money too. When your salary goes up you will pay more tax, and you will pay more tax as a percentage of your total income. It just gets worse and worse as you earn more and more money. You end up paying more tax at a higher rate so your take home pay stays about the same. People who earn 50K have about as much money as people who earn 100K. The tax structure really compresses everyone into three categories or casts. 1) Those on the dole. 2) The working people, who actually add value to the economy and make things go. 3) The financial elite (mostly employees of the government, or indirectly sucking the government tit, like pharm lobby groups, or insurance and investment bankers and brokers)
The only way to keep more of your money is to get smart about taxes. It is more important to avoid taxes than it is to earn money. -- think about what that does for our economy -- The best idea for our country would be to tax when we buy services and products, so we can "vote" with each decision to spend. The government will want us to "vote" and will want to create an environment where people will want to spend money. That would be good for everyone. Right now our government creates an environment where it doesn't matter what you do because they just steal the money from your employer.
Did you know that income tax was put into place in order to fight WW2, and the government just "forgot" to get rid of it after the war was over like they promised. Did you know that when you die without a will the IRS is suppose to collect a 50% death TAX on your entire estate, and that there is a 75% tax on all money that you give your own children? That is why so many people bequeath money to their grandchildren. Thaink about this. After you paid tax on your earnings, and everything you ever bought, and you are dead, you still have to pay the government again for the priviledge of giving your own money or your own stuff to your own kids. Our government is very tricky and completely out of control with greed, and people who don't realize this might as well have signs on their heads that say "please rape me because I am an idiot".
Last edited:
What does "FAIR" mean?
Well, in essence, the flat tax is not "fair" in the true sense of the word.
Person A makes $200,000 annually:
$200,000 x 15% is $30,000 in taxes
Person B makes $30,000 annually:
$30,000 x 15% IS $4,500
If everything were really to be "fair," then Person A should only pay $4,500 per year in taxes. That's not "fair" to Person A. Conversely, that $4,500 is going to hurt Person B much worse than the $30,000 is going to hurt Person A, so that's not "fair" either.
So, I don't think you proponents of the flat tax should be promoting it because it's fair, because clearly it is not.
I hope I'm not coming across as a champion of our current tax system, because I think it sucks, but I'm just saying that there's much more to it than just instituting a flat tax and then everyone living happily ever after.
Everone should pay the exact same dollar amount in taxes if we want a FAIR and EQUITABLE tax program. But we all know that will never happen.
Well, in essence, the flat tax is not "fair" in the true sense of the word.
Person A makes $200,000 annually:
$200,000 x 15% is $30,000 in taxes
Person B makes $30,000 annually:
$30,000 x 15% IS $4,500
If everything were really to be "fair," then Person A should only pay $4,500 per year in taxes. That's not "fair" to Person A. Conversely, that $4,500 is going to hurt Person B much worse than the $30,000 is going to hurt Person A, so that's not "fair" either.
So, I don't think you proponents of the flat tax should be promoting it because it's fair, because clearly it is not.
I hope I'm not coming across as a champion of our current tax system, because I think it sucks, but I'm just saying that there's much more to it than just instituting a flat tax and then everyone living happily ever after.
Everone should pay the exact same dollar amount in taxes if we want a FAIR and EQUITABLE tax program. But we all know that will never happen.
fair
Why is the 4500 worth more to person B than the 30000 is to person A? That is not a true assumption, and it is not a clear assumption either. Wait until you earn 200000 and then tell me how fair it feels to you. Person A should not be penalized for earning money. Just like person B should not be penalized for earning money. Simply because you can't imagine earning an amount of money doesn't mean the money is not important and necessary to the survival of another person. Maybe that person has a sick mother who needs help, and now because they have to pay so much additional tax, they are not able to help, and the mother dies. It happens all the time. There are a million reasons why it is not right to take money away from people. Whoever they are, and however much money it is. They earned it, and they should be allowed to keep it.
National sales tax is the way to go.
Why is the 4500 worth more to person B than the 30000 is to person A? That is not a true assumption, and it is not a clear assumption either. Wait until you earn 200000 and then tell me how fair it feels to you. Person A should not be penalized for earning money. Just like person B should not be penalized for earning money. Simply because you can't imagine earning an amount of money doesn't mean the money is not important and necessary to the survival of another person. Maybe that person has a sick mother who needs help, and now because they have to pay so much additional tax, they are not able to help, and the mother dies. It happens all the time. There are a million reasons why it is not right to take money away from people. Whoever they are, and however much money it is. They earned it, and they should be allowed to keep it.
National sales tax is the way to go.
Last edited:
BigGuns - good post.
There was no income tax until 1913. Yet we seemed to do OK. Much of the revenue was generated from tariffs and excise taxes.
A flat tax is fair. Everyone pays the same rate. It's as fair as it gets. the current system has so many loopholes. Instituing a flat tax would close all of the loopholes, put a lot of accountants out of business and shrink the IRS, but it would make things fair.
A nationwide sales tax (no exemptions) is also fair. Buy something, pay tax. Easy.
Now - consider all the taxes we pay. There is tax on your phone bill, your cable bill, property taxes. In NY state, each gallon of gas is taxed 63 cents PER GALLON. And we blame the Middle East for high prices.
Our government is fucking us with a tax colored dildo.
There was no income tax until 1913. Yet we seemed to do OK. Much of the revenue was generated from tariffs and excise taxes.
A flat tax is fair. Everyone pays the same rate. It's as fair as it gets. the current system has so many loopholes. Instituing a flat tax would close all of the loopholes, put a lot of accountants out of business and shrink the IRS, but it would make things fair.
A nationwide sales tax (no exemptions) is also fair. Buy something, pay tax. Easy.
Now - consider all the taxes we pay. There is tax on your phone bill, your cable bill, property taxes. In NY state, each gallon of gas is taxed 63 cents PER GALLON. And we blame the Middle East for high prices.
Our government is fucking us with a tax colored dildo.
spongebob
New member
nitlyan said:
i didn't clearly state it. bigguns asked how a flat tax is better over a graduated tax rate. i simply meant that the flat tax rate will allow a person who is in the higher tax bracket will get to pay less.
200000@40%=80000 vs.
200000@20%=40000
i believe what you believe, just because a person makes more he shouldn't be taxed more.
So, in conclusion, really the only way to be "fair" is what I am going to call a "de-graduated" income tax. It works like this:
Person A makes $200,000
He should be taxed at 2.25%
$200,000 x 2.25% = $4,500 in taxes
Person B makes $30,000
He should be taxed at 15%
$30,000 x 15% = $4,500 in taxes
For all of you that are so concerned with FAIRNESS and everyone contributing the same amount, this is your solution. The more money you make, the lower your tax rate is. No one can say that this isn't "FAIR," because everyone taxpayer pays the same amount of money.
I just don't see how you people can say that an income tax is criminal, but a tax on spending is perfectly fine. They are both criminal. If you believe that income tax is wrong, then you must believe that all tax is wrong. Who cares if we all pay the same percentage, the fact remains that WE'RE STILL PAYING!
Person A makes $200,000
He should be taxed at 2.25%
$200,000 x 2.25% = $4,500 in taxes
Person B makes $30,000
He should be taxed at 15%
$30,000 x 15% = $4,500 in taxes
For all of you that are so concerned with FAIRNESS and everyone contributing the same amount, this is your solution. The more money you make, the lower your tax rate is. No one can say that this isn't "FAIR," because everyone taxpayer pays the same amount of money.
I just don't see how you people can say that an income tax is criminal, but a tax on spending is perfectly fine. They are both criminal. If you believe that income tax is wrong, then you must believe that all tax is wrong. Who cares if we all pay the same percentage, the fact remains that WE'RE STILL PAYING!
Sushi X said:
No, not at all...If we are going to be taxed it should be flat...someone was saying the rich would pay less with a flat tax...No they don't..even if it is flat the more you make the more taxed you are...Income tax is unconstitutional.....sales tax user fees...etc...that is what will work..let the people who use it pay for it..property tax is down right communist!! You never own your land with property tax..you are always renting it from the GOV!!! FUCK that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
bigguns7 said:
Fairness and equality are not the same thing. Treating everyone equally is not necessarily treating them fairly.
Here's an analogy: You manage a team of software developers. Your top guy, quality employee, shows up late one day - said he had personal problems.
Your slowest guy, someone you could do without - does the same thing. Will your reaction be the same? Unlikely.
Though you treat them differently, you're being fair, without being equal.
Later
M
MoneyBags
Guest
90% income tax of people who make less than 100 grand. people who make over 100 grand must pay a 5% income tax.
MattTheSkyWalker
Dude, you speak the truth. Yes. Yes. It is so difficult to communicate this concept to most people.
And the analogy should be taken further just for the effect. You have one genious hard working guy who invents something that earns millions and millions, and you have one other guy who just answers the phone, is a misinthrope, and a general bad attitude. You pay the guy who made the invention 1000 times the amount you pay the guy who answers the phone, and that is fair too. Actually, the guy who answers the phone should be indebted to the guy who made the invention, not jealous and angry and inflicting taxes on him.
Property TAX really burns my ass. Most people don't think about it because the bill is all rolled up in the mortgate payment. I think about my poor dad who owns his house, but can't afford the property tax. I end up paying my dad's property tax and my own property tax as well. In what possible universe is this a fair thing?
Dude, you speak the truth. Yes. Yes. It is so difficult to communicate this concept to most people.
And the analogy should be taken further just for the effect. You have one genious hard working guy who invents something that earns millions and millions, and you have one other guy who just answers the phone, is a misinthrope, and a general bad attitude. You pay the guy who made the invention 1000 times the amount you pay the guy who answers the phone, and that is fair too. Actually, the guy who answers the phone should be indebted to the guy who made the invention, not jealous and angry and inflicting taxes on him.
Property TAX really burns my ass. Most people don't think about it because the bill is all rolled up in the mortgate payment. I think about my poor dad who owns his house, but can't afford the property tax. I end up paying my dad's property tax and my own property tax as well. In what possible universe is this a fair thing?
talonracer
New member
spongebob said:
REALLY?? What is more 15% of $20,000 or $15 of $200,000................. Isn't it fair that the $200,000 will pay10 times more than the 20,000 guy??
spongebob
New member
talonracer said:
i dont believe the tax rate should increase with the more money you make.
ie. 30000@15%=4500
90000@30%=27000
that is too much. it should be,
30000@15%=4500
90000@15%=13500
i just know one thing, its getting harder to raise a family now. i have two kids and im married. we both work and do ok, but we dont live extravegently.
spongebob
New member
bigguns7 said:
when the term "flat tax" is used i think it means a flat tax rate, not literally a flat tax as in your example. everybody pays 4500$
a flat tax rate would mean everybody pay 20% ie.
employee #1. 30000@20%=6000
employee #2. 90000@20%=18000
clearly the guy who makes more pays more, but not at a graduated rate.
spongebob
New member
talonracer said:
one other point, you say the guy who makes 200,000$ should pay 10 times more than the guy who makes 20,000$, thats not our tax system.
guy#1. 200,000@40%=80,000$
guy#2. 20,000@15%=6,000$
guy #1 is paying more than 10times than guy#2, but he only makes 10 times more.
those are not the actual tax rate figures, but i bet you there not even that close.
