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important question regarding future "shipments".............

I read in the news today that they're going to start implimenting radiation treatments for packages/envelopes coming in from overseas.......and will also start plans for doing so with domestic packages. This might not be good news for us. Gear in pill form, like D-bol, will not be significantly affected by the doses of radiation which would be administered to kill biological agents, but liquid such as test will definitely be affected. How I'm not sure........but the radiation will definitely mess with the chemical makeup of any liquid. The question is to what extent?? Some chemicals' will not be affected by a molecule here or there being altered, but some may change their actions drastically. Hehehehe, maybe sources are going to have to start shipping with lead liners.......;-)

In all seriousness though, this may be something which we're all going to have to start thinking about. Either that or I'm going to have to take a weekend to drive to the east coast to see my "dude" ;-)
 
What about those with good intentions tha may be sending candy or something completely benign? I smell a lawsuit coming on.
 
Man that would be some hardcore shit. Imagine all the stuff it can effect besides AS. Will wrapping the shit in tin foil help? What relfects Radiation?
 
I heard the same thing. They had said that the radiation was meant to kill any and all bacteria. I don't think that the amount of radiation to kill bacteria would be significant enough to alter the molecular structure of the chemicals. But it does pose a damn good question.
 
Ryvor, I thought the same thing at first......however, I have no idea things will react to the radiation and TO WHAT DEGREE!!!
Shipping candy and food items shouldn't be a big deal, the radiation isn't stored within the food, and knocking around a couple molecules of a Jolly Roger isn't going to affect much of anything. But how is the radiation going to affect things like medicine.....or gear for that matter??? Things have an exact and intricate way of reacting inside the body, you alter a test molecule and it ain't a test molecule no more........therefore it will just be a useless substance circulating in the blood stream. This also should raise concern to people with illnesses that get their medication shipped to them. How many old people order their stuff from online pharmacies??? Radiation is no joke folks, there's a reason why you get a slab of lead put over your nuts when you get an x-ray. I don't know how strong of a radiation they will use, but I guarantee it will be a good deal stronger than your typical x-rays.
 
This sucks...does this mean i'll be taking chemo therapy medicine when i inject my shit...fuck the damn government...someone's going to get fucked up with all this shit.
 
Just think about Fuji Film or Kodak... all of their film being sent in to the USA... all going to be ruined... as well as video tapes...

C
 
The radiation does not stay in whatever is iradiated.
I hope it does not affects oils etc. I do know this,McDonald's was going to irradiate their meat patties so ecoli would be non-existent in there products. But that fell through,there has to be a reason!?!
 
The Quesion is when is this Starting? will is start first with domestic or international or both?
 
batgirl said:
The Quesion is when is this Starting? will is start first with domestic or international or both?

The equipment is horrendously expensive. My guess is they'll do just federal mail or just International mail (at best).
 
The latest of what I've heard now is that truck loads of mail is being sent from DC to Lima, Ohio. Reason being is that there is some facility in Lima that has the capability of irradiated mass quantities of mail. It's my guess that the post office will have radiation equipment in their major international hubs by the end of november, latest. But they're going to have to do better than that, the anthrax letters were domestic......which means that eventually they will have to have radiation capabilities at the local level......I can't even begin to imagine that cost.

The question WE need to be trying to figure out, is how is radiation going to affect what WE get in the mail. I was hoping some of the inhouse chemists like Andy13 would have at least some moderate insight into this. This is probably one of the most pressing issues that face us, as juicers, right now. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that the post office is going to start doing that.........if in the end it means I can't get certain gear in the mail OH WELL, some things can't be helped.
 
The equipment is horrendously expensive. My guess is they'll do just federal mail or just International mail (at best).

It's already started. The government bought 8 machines this week from a company whose trading symbol is SURE.

Many packages from the East Coast were sent to Ohio.

It will not screw up gear.

If anything, I would be more worried about how certain fillers are going to mail their stuff. Certain countries are hotter than ever.
 
I am not sure about pulse light but the easiest way to kill/ sterilize large quantities is by using gamma radiation on a truck which will completely wipe out bacteria/spores. There main goal would be to kill spores. How would this effect gear?
Light is a form of electromagnetic radiation. Other forms of electromagnetic radiation include radio waves, radar waves microwaves, infrared radiation, ultraviolet rays, and gamma rays.
The only difference between them is their wavelength, which is related to the amount the energy waves carry. The shorter the wavelength the higher the frequency, and the longer the wavelength the shorter the frequency.

Gamma radiation can and is sometimes used on meat, killing most (but not all) bacteria, such as E. coli and salmonella. (It does not, however, kill viruses such as hepatitis in the doses approved by the FDA.) Although scientists are not certain of the precise mechanism by which gamma radiation kills bacteria, they do know that it strips electrons off atoms, disrupting the bonds between molecules, which could in turn disrupt the function of DNA and weaken cell walls. Also, it has been noted that some levels of nutrients are lost as well, example being Vit. E. The FDA doesn't worry about that because some of these losses are seen when foods are cooked as well.
Now if you are disrupting the bonds between molecueles. I would think it would mess up the gear to the point where it is nolonger that unique molecule which made it up in the first place.
The biggest goal the government is trying to accomplish by doing radiation is to kill the spores which cause anthrax. To do so there are not many options. Spores are very heat tollerant. Infact the spore is considered to be a defense mode. For example, it is a cycle which they begin as a spore then become a cell in division stage and after mitosis (division) they go back to spore and so forth. This enables them to multiply and in case of harsh conditions actually survive in spore mode since they are tolerant to so many outside forces.
My guess is it is way too expensive for the government to dive into and this route of action will not be taken. And if it is, it will be for the use of government officials only.
Now as for pulse light. I have read that dermatologists are now using intense pulse-light therapy -- instead of lasers -- to smooth and soothe facial woes. With this they can delete fine-to-moderate lines and wrinkles, remove unwanted facial hair, and erase a whole array of pigment problems, including sunspots. Doctors say it actually tightens up those unsightly pores -- perhaps permanently. So can it be used to kill anthrax? I don't think this will be a likely route they will take.
I am thinking either gamma or microwave. And not the microwave you have at home, this is much stronger.
In summary, using radiation will alter the DNA of bacteria thus killing them instantly or rendering them useless. I have know idea what it would do to gear only assumtions. I don't think you will be able to find a straight answer either, unless we are able to find a chemist or microbiologist who has extensively studied the topic and knows the truth behind it. I don't see how the radiation treatment would be able to specifically attack anthrax only. The whole package is going to be exposed to the radiation. And then what?????????
Here's hopeing they don't go through with any of it! Damn Terrorists!!!!!
 
Thankfully, the system the postal service is using does not have radioactive material in it. It's the same process they use to kill bacteria in food.

This was a sweet stock play last month.

SAN DIEGO, Oct. 29 /PRNewswire/ -- SureBeam Corporation (Nasdaq: SURE) announced today that the U.S. Postal Service would use SureBeam's electron beam systems to eliminate the threat of anthrax in the U.S. mail system. SureBeam will be the exclusive provider of electron beam and x-ray products and system integration services to The Titan Corporation, the prime contractor with the U.S. Postal Service. The award to SureBeam by Titan's newly established Office of Homeland Security of approximately $26 million is for eight SureBeam systems.

Under the award, SureBeam will be working with several business units of the Titan Corporation and Titan's Office of Homeland Security, as well as Titan Systems Corporation and Titan Scan Technologies, in providing a turnkey solution to the United States Postal Service. SureBeam will be a primary subcontractor to Titan in the execution of this comprehensive contract. The United States Postal Service has an option to expand the award with Titan, which if exercised; SureBeam would be a significant participant as the exclusive provider of these products and services to The Titan Corporation.

"The entire SureBeam team is proud to be able to be part of addressing this urgent national priority and in helping to protect against biological terrorism," said SureBeam's President and Chief Executive Officer Larry Oberkfell. "SureBeam will be working closely with Titan's Office of Homeland Security, which will be bringing together the combined resources of SureBeam and Titan for a comprehensive, integrated solution to this bioterrorist threat."

Headquartered in San Diego, California, SureBeam is a leading provider of electron beam and x-ray food safety systems and services for the food industry. SureBeam's technology significantly improves food quality, prolongs shelf life, and provides disinfestations that help to protect the environment. The SureBeam(R) patented system is based on proven electron beam and x-ray technology that destroys harmful food borne bacteria much like thermal pasteurization does to milk. This technology can also eliminate the need for toxic chemical fumigants used in pest control that may be harmful to the earth's ozone layer.
 
an electron beam eh??? That carries a pretty decent amount of energy.....I'm not convinced it can't knock around test molecules. Remember, if just one electron is disrupted in molecule, it can turn into something totally different or be rendered inert. The individual atoms in a molecule make their bonds with other atoms based on electron configuration, if that is disrupted than the molecule could break apart or become something else. This could turn maybe 1/4 of the steroid in the bottle into useless substance.
 
Here is a little info on the topic. It is directed at the effect of radiation on plastic, but it is obvious that there could potentially be harmful affects to other chemicals as well. What is really interesting is that electron beams only penetrate to about 2 inches. So long as the gear is deeper than two inches inside the package, it shouldn't affect it. I think the idea is to treat mostly letters because people are much more cautious about opening an unknown package than they are envelopes. Anyway here it is:

Radiation: Radiation means exposing ware to be sterilized to an ionizing radiation source. Ionizing radiation knocks electrons off atoms it contacts. Ionizing radiation is lethal to micro-organisms because of its destructive effect upon the contents of living cells. There are two common sources of ionizing radiation used for sterilization:

Cobalt60 (gamma radiation) OR
Electron beam or E-beam (high energy electrons)
The amount of radiation from either Cobalt60 or electron beam is measured in MegaRads (MRads) or KiloGrays (KGy). One Megarad equals ten KiloGrays. Because E-beam and gamma sterilization both use radiation, packaging materials react similarly in both systems. Cobalt60 Gamma Radiation: A gamma radiation sterilization facility is expensive so this technique is usually performed by a contract sterilizer. The facility consists of a very thick walled concrete maze and room built around a well containing water. In the well are a number of pencil-sized steel rods, impregnated with Cobalt and made radioactive by exposure to an atomic reactor. The articles to be sterilized are placed on conveyors that bring them through the protective concrete maze into the room where the radioactive rods are located. The amount of radioactivity to cause sterilization is controlled by the number of rods raised from the well and the exposure time. After exposure, ware is conveyed from the room via the maze.
A radiation dose sufficient to kill bacteria and the most resistant spores is 2.5 MRads. But, to keep costs down and minimize radiation exposure, companies will determine bioburden then find the minimum dosage plus a safety factor to attain sterilization.

Gamma radiation has high penetrating power (about 50 cm or close to 20 inches of the same unit-density material). Because of this, a large number of small parts can be packed together for sterilization. In this instance, companies are sure to have the validated sterilization dosage reach the center of the ware multi-pack. This means that slightly higher dosages occur on the ware at the very outside edges of the ware multi-pack.

Usually, empty packaging components are sterilized via gamma radiation therefore, the effect of the dose on the plastic material used to make the ware is important. Companies may determine the effect of radiation on ware at the level used for sterilization. Since the effects of radiation exposure are cumulative, twice the normal sterilization dose is sometimes examined to be sure no problems will occur.

Typically, thermoplastic materials that can be gamma radiation sterilized without problems are:

Low Density Polyethylene
Linear Low Density Polyethylene
High Density Polyethylene (those containing phosphite stabilizers may yellow)
Polyethylene Terephthalate
Polystyrene
Polycarbonate
Nylon
Typically, thermoset and rubber materials that can be gamma radiation sterilized without problems are:

Phenol formaldehyde
Urea formaldehyde
Natural rubber
Nitrile rubber
Important Notes:

Special radiation resistant grades of polypropylene are needed for gamma sterilization. Polypropylene fares poorly upon radiation exposure. Normal PP grades yellow noticeably and exhibit long term embrittlement when sterilized via radiation techniques. Special radiation resistant PP grades, having special stabilizers, are available for radiation sterilization. Also, PP copolymers are more radiation resistant than PP homopolymers.
Problems can occur when gamma radiation sterilizing polyvinyl chloride (PVC) or fluoropolymers (Teflon, etc.)
Note: We do not anticipate problems when sterilizing ware via electron beam. But, we do not have experience with all conditions and criteria each customer judges ware to be acceptable. We will happily provide samples for exposure to the conditions of interest and your determination of ware meeting your performance criteria. The following guidelines should be considered for questions on gamma radiation sterilizing ware made from polypropylene:

A radiation grade of polypropylene should be used to manufacture ware that is to be exposed to gamma radiation. If polypropylene ware is made from a radiation resistant grade of polypropylene, we do not anticipate problems when sterilizing it in this manner. However, we do not have experience with conditions and criteria by which each customer judges ware to be acceptable. We will happily provide samples for exposure to the conditions of interest and your determination of this ware meeting your performance criteria.

Electron Beam (E-Beam Radiation:) An E-beam radiation sterilization facility is expensive so this technique is usually performed by a contract sterilizer. The facility consists of a protective maze built around an E-beam generator. The E-beam generator delivers a high dose of electrons in a narrow beam at the items to be sterilized. After exposure, ware is conveyed from the room.

A radiation dose sufficient to kill bacteria and the most resistant spores is 2.5 MRads. But, to keep costs down and minimize radiation exposure, companies will determine bioburden then find the minimum dosage plus a safety factor to attain sterilization.

Electrons from the E-beam generator have limited penetrating power (a 10-MeV E-beam will penetrate only about 5 cm or 2 inches of a unit-density material). Because of this, only a small number of parts can be packed together for sterilization. When this is done, companies must be sure to have the validated sterilization dosage reach the center of the ware multi-pack. This means higher dosages occur on the ware at the very outside edges of the ware multi-pack.

Usually, empty packaging components are sterilized via E-beam therefore, the effect of the dose on the plastic material used to make the ware is important. Companies may determine the effect on ware at the level used for sterilization. Since the effects are cumulative, twice the normal sterilization dose is sometimes examined to be sure no problems will occur. Typically, thermoplastic materials that can be E-beam sterilized without problems are:

Low Density Polyethylene
Linear Low Density Polyethylene
High Density Polyethylene (those containing phosphite stabilizers may yellow)
Polyethylene Terephthalate
Polystyrene
Polycarbonate
Nylon
Typically, thermoset and rubber materials that can be E-beam sterilized without problems are:

Phenol formaldehyde
Urea formaldehyde
Natural rubber
Nitrile rubber
Important Notes:

Special radiation resistant grades of polypropylene are needed for E-beam sterilization. Polypropylene fares poorly upon E-beam exposure. Normal PP grades yellow noticeably and exhibit long term embrittlement. Special PP grades, having special stabilizers, are available for E-beam sterilization. Also, PP copolymers are more resistant than PP homopolymers.
Problems can occur when E-beam sterilizing polyvinyl chloride (PVC) or fluoropolymers (Teflon, etc.)
Note: We do not anticipate problems when sterilizing ware via electron beam. But, we do not have experience with all conditions and criteria each customer judges ware to be acceptable. We will happily provide samples for exposure to the conditions of interest and your determination of ware meeting your performance criteria.
 
Wow! If they sterilize all of the Mexican gear on the way in, 2thick might consider using it!
 
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