if you are poor, is it your fault?

[strongchick]

well? A lot of folks would have us believe that people are poor because they fucked up somewhere along the way. ..it's all their fault.

I don't believe it.

1. Not everyone can afford college, even community college
2. If you pick a field of study that isn't in demand, such as computer science (it is NOT in demand right now) and you went to a second tier or lower school
3. How can you save any real money if your cost of living is high? Many people here assume that it is acceptable to live in a slum so you can save money

By poor, I mean over 25 and making $30K or less.

 

[The Shadow]

I think a more appropiate question should be:

"Who hid the special brownies?"

 

[Liberator]

Of course it is your fault

If you peel away all the layers of excuses, right at the bottomr of it is motivation and desire

with these two key elements alone, almost anyone can achieve a degree of "success"

simple

 

[Night Fly]

This is'nt Night Fly, but a friend of hers. These are some of the most ludacris comments, and I hear them regularly. If a poor fool wants to go to college they can. No ifs ands or buts. The richest people I know did'nt go to college, including myself. Realize this: You can become financially stable and successful without college.
If a person can't save money, then it is their own fault and it is due to poor planning. I accept no excuses.

 

[WODIN]

I think a more appropiate question should be:

"Who hid the special brownies?"

AHEM!!!!

 

[Lao Tzu]

well? A lot of folks would have us believe that people are poor because they fucked up somewhere along the way. ..it's all their fault.

I don't believe it.

1. Not everyone can afford college, even community college
2. If you pick a field of study that isn't in demand, such as computer science (it is NOT in demand right now) and you went to a second tier or lower school
3. How can you save any real money if your cost of living is high? Many people here assume that it is acceptable to live in a slum so you can save money

By poor, I mean over 25 and making $30K or less.

1. not everyone is smart enough to do college either.
3. there are ways.
4. people don't understand that there is a psychology behind a person too. some people have had their spirits broken, and can't contemplate a better life.

minimum wage is $5 an hour. that is 10k a year for a 40 hour workweek. where did you get the 30k mark? i know a guy who supports himself, his wife, his wife's college & a $525 a month rent on 24k a year (they have no car though).

 

[HappyScrappy]

as with many things, there are people that work very hard, are good people, and yet still don't get out ahead due to the way things fall.
then there are the people that also do jack shit and then whine that they need help and that they can't get by, etc etc. That attitude bothers people (rightfully so), so they start to notice that and associate it with the poor - and disregard the exceptions to what they see (not that they really are exceptions).

anyway, having grown up with my mom for the first half of my life, she was a single mom making no money, and we were poor. she worked hard, she got her masters, and still got the shaft. then I went to school with ignorant rednecks whose parents dropped out of high school, had 8 kids in 3 years, and spent thier days scamming the system and illegally hunting.
neither of us had any money, but my mom was trying, yet we all got lumped in as "the poor"

fuck that. anyway, I agree with strongchick on this one.

 

[Big Brother Val]

Of course it is your fault

If you peel away all the layers of excuses, right at the bottomr of it is motivation and desire

with these two key elements alone, almost anyone can achieve a degree of "success"

simple

Disagree in some cases.

My mother, for example, lost her job after 15 years with a company, and they were bought out, and they did a shitload of layoffs. She was one of them. Many companies are laying people off right now... she's been unemployed for 4 months now, and has almost totally drained her bank account be able to keep her house. She'll soon have to tap into her retirement money.

To top that off, her husband walked out on her about 2 weeks before the layoff... and he was the real money maker of the house. She now has a house she can't afford anyway...

Not sure how any of that is her fault.

 

[HappyScrappy]

Re: Re: if you are poor, is it your fault?

minimum wage is $5 an hour. that is 10k a year for a 40 hour workweek. where did you get the 30k mark? i know a guy who supports himself, his wife, his wife's college & a $525 a month rent on 24k a year (they have no car though).

depends on where in the country you are - in Boston with that much money, you couldn't live at all. you'd be homeless.
maybe where you are that works.
it is what she said, the cost of living.

and night fly's friend - yes, if you are poor, you can even get a free ride if you work hard enough academically and/or in sports - which is great, you get an education, hopefully at a good school - but that does jack and shit for the family - it only helps the person going through school.
and the concept that even the poor could go to college is a new thing - very recent, so you can't use that to explain everything.

 

[saint808]

personally i think if i ever become poor it will be your fault.

 

[HappyScrappy]

I agree with BBV - there are so many factors at play.

is it possible that the whole thing can up to your own sorry lazy worthelss fucking ass? hell yeah.
but it isn't always - there are times when you just keep repeatedly getting kicked to the ground, and it isn't your fault.

so due to that exception, you can't say it is the rule that poor people are lazy.

you can say some are, some aren't (the same goes for the successful and their kids) - but to generalize is simply retarded.

 

[needleboy]

Stop trying to blame others for what you have failed to do for yourself- or what you have done to yourself.

My father went to college when my brother and 6 and 4. He worked 40+ hours per week from 11-6am, went to class from 8am to 4pm, was the only bread wimnner and graduated in 4 years with a 3.6 GPA. We were dirt poor, lived in a trailer, and barely made ends meet.


Because of his hard work and efforts my family was able to attain a signifigantly better social status than I was born into.

You want it- WORK FOR IT!!

 

[WODIN]

I was into poverty, grew up in poverty and have clawed my way to a relativley obscure middle class life style. Oh joy....

 

[Lao Tzu]

Stop trying to blame others for what you have failed to do for yourself- or what you have done to yourself.

My father went to college when my brother and 6 and 4. He worked 40+ hours per week from 11-6am, went to class from 8am to 4pm, was the only bread wimnner and graduated in 4 years with a 3.6 GPA. We were dirt poor, lived in a trailer, and barely made ends meet.


Because of his hard work and efforts my family was able to attain a signifigantly better social status than I was born into.

You want it- WORK FOR IT!!

you just quoted verbatim happyscrappy's story, minus the last part. i don't know when his family got things straightened out financially.

i still think that psychology is the main reason people are poor.

and the issues behind poverty are probably too complex for peopel with selfish agendas (conservatives who want to cut public funding) to grasp. physical illness, mental illness, psychological barriers, social barriers, economic instability, etc.

 

[BO-CEPHUS]

and the issues behind poverty are probably too complex for peopel with selfish agendas (conservatives who want to cut public funding) to grasp. physical illness, mental illness, psychological barriers, social barriers, economic instability, etc.

Does public funding even work? How is it selfish to believe that the government has no right to steal almost half of my income. Where is the logic?

I am sorry, but welfare does not work. Have you seen the places that these people live. Would you want to live in public housing? No matter what the govt does, these people will still live in a shithole and still have very little money.

Because of welfare laws, you have people who cannot get fulltime jobs because they will lose some of their benefits and more money is given for more kids. Where is the incentive to actually get out there and try to make your life better?

Are there people who can truely benefit from the system? Yes, but most only want to abuse it. Maybe some of them should stop spending money on alcohol, drugs, and lottery tickets and try getting a couple jobs so that their family can have a somewhat decent life.

BTW, I have a cell phone bill due today. Will you pay it for me? If not, I guess you are simply selfish.

 

[HappyScrappy]

needleboy - your father worked hard - fantastic - but during that time - you were poor. was that his fault? he isn't poor now - my parents aren't poor now either - but we just went through the biggest economic boom the world has ever seen.

have you been through a recession? the last one was 1989 I think... until 90-something... 92, 93?

we are raised to believe that we can do anything we want. but in reality, it takes hard work (as you've said), and then some chance in there.

 

[gymnpoppa]

Disagree in some cases.

My mother, for example, lost her job after 15 years with a company, and they were bought out, and they did a shitload of layoffs. She was one of them. Many companies are laying people off right now... she's been unemployed for 4 months now, and has almost totally drained her bank account be able to keep her house. She'll soon have to tap into her retirement money.

To top that off, her husband walked out on her about 2 weeks before the layoff... and he was the real money maker of the house. She now has a house she can't afford anyway...

Not sure how any of that is her fault.

Sorry to hear that story, unfortunately, greed by companies is the common denominator in stories like this.

Funny how no one denounces the obvious poor planning by corporations, or horrible accounting practices (dishonest in a lot of cases) which lead to layoffs, etc.
Look at baseball, because of greedy-ass owners, baseball wants to ax two teams, because the smart, rich owners, overpaid. Also, these same owners want cities, and taxpayers to pay for their stadiums, and arenas, so they can make more money. I hope that Jerry Jones does not succeed in swindling the Metroplex with his billion dollar dreams.

I agree with Strongchick on this.

 

[Your_Moms_Kneepads]

well? A lot of folks would have us believe that people are poor because they fucked up somewhere along the way. ..it's all their fault.

I don't believe it.

1. Not everyone can afford college, even community college
2. If you pick a field of study that isn't in demand, such as computer science (it is NOT in demand right now) and you went to a second tier or lower school
3. How can you save any real money if your cost of living is high? Many people here assume that it is acceptable to live in a slum so you can save money

By poor, I mean over 25 and making $30K or less.

Community College here is $12 a credit hour. If you cant afford that then you arent trying. Even if you cant its FUCKING FREE. Cant afford books? They are free too.
People make excuses because they are pathetic and lazy.

 

[dballer]

This is'nt Night Fly, but a friend of hers. These are some of the most ludacris comments, and I hear them regularly. If a poor fool wants to go to college they can. No ifs ands or buts. The richest people I know did'nt go to college, including myself. Realize this: You can become financially stable and successful without college.
If a person can't save money, then it is their own fault and it is due to poor planning. I accept no excuses.

Soo true!!!

You should get your own handle here and start posting!!!

 

[dballer]

No.. guys.. hang on a minute...

Strongchick is right....

Let's all just stand out by the mailbox and wait for that federal aid check. Life is sooo much easier when we sit at home in our public housing and wait for that dumb working mans money.

SEND ME A CHECK AND SOME STAMPS!!! I'LL BE POOR WITH YA!!!

(I tired O all dis work)

 

[HappyScrappy]

Re: Re: if you are poor, is it your fault?

Community College here is $12 a credit hour. If you cant afford that then you arent trying. Even if you cant its FUCKING FREE. Cant afford books? They are free too.
People make excuses because they are pathetic and lazy.

but once you go to community college, will that really help you get a job in today's market?
I have friends from MIT that are having trouble getting jobs - they are resorting to "regular" minimum wage jobs to try to scrape by, and they are lucky enough to have their parents front money.

now say you go to the same job with a community college on the resume, if MIT guys aren't getting in - I hate to say it, but there is no chance in hell that person is.

so they are going to have to look for the lower jobs, which means less money... so they are back where they started.

granted - once you go to community college, you can frequently use that as leverage after a year or two to transfer to a better school.

 

[Gilbyag]

This is'nt Night Fly, but a friend of hers. These are some of the most ludacris comments, and I hear them regularly. If a poor fool wants to go to college they can. No ifs ands or buts. The richest people I know did'nt go to college, including myself. Realize this: You can become financially stable and successful without college.
If a person can't save money, then it is their own fault and it is due to poor planning. I accept no excuses.

good post.

not much college here, not good when comes to lurn'n frum buks n'stufff... growed up po (but I never knew it till I was older) I make a damn good living. No excuses, YOU have the power to make yourself.

 

[gymnpoppa]

I'm not in favor of giving a dime to greedy ass corporations that over pay employees, then lay them off, forcing them towards the poverty level.


That's welfare as well.

And the weak-ass argument that it will destroy the economy is bullshit. These (airlines) were failing before Sept 11th, and even with the welfare checks, they're still about to go bankrupt.....so that was taxpayer money just wasted....poof, gone. If anybody loses business, no matter how big, you should suffer just like us small businesses.....you wither up and die....no bailouts with my money. No more welfare, for supposedly rich, smart, people.

And change the procedures for poor people.

 

[WODIN]

Well said Gymnpoppa.

 

[Lao Tzu]

most conservatives just assume off the bat that poor people choose voluntarily to be poor. which is true in a way. but psychology is a powerful thing.
if you give person A a small dose of adderall and put him in a soundproof room with a book about a subject he likes he will learn about 20x faster than person B who has a learning disability, mental illness, has to listen to distracting noise outside while he studies a subject he can't stand.
comparing those 2 is like comparing a self made millionaire like jay gould with a stereotypical welfare mom (not that those exist, i don't think they do). some people have their minds working for them, some have their minds working against them. that issue isn't addressed when it comes to poverty. people just assume everyone has the same mental abilities and those who don't have motivation or success are lazy.

Does public funding even work? How is it selfish to believe that the government has no right to steal almost half of my income. Where is the logic?

I am sorry, but welfare does not work. Have you seen the places that these people live. Would you want to live in public housing? No matter what the govt does, these people will still live in a shithole and still have very little money.

Because of welfare laws, you have people who cannot get fulltime jobs because they will lose some of their benefits and more money is given for more kids. Where is the incentive to actually get out there and try to make your life better?

Are there people who can truely benefit from the system? Yes, but most only want to abuse it. Maybe some of them should stop spending money on alcohol, drugs, and lottery tickets and try getting a couple jobs so that their family can have a somewhat decent life.

BTW, I have a cell phone bill due today. Will you pay it for me? If not, I guess you are simply selfish.

 

[HappyScrappy]

I just thought of something. I'm in a city where the cost of living is sky high. so I'm biased in that direction.
the minimum salary you'd have to make here is insane - at the very least $24K and then you'd have to live with 5 other people and do nothing other than pay for rent and your food.

now if these same people could go to a small town, then the cost of living is lower - and if they could pulling that same $24K, then they could live very nicely.

the problem is - once you are poor, it is very hard to move since there is a large cost associated with that - and it is very hard to save up to do that...

so consider that in some of your areas, yes, maybe the poor are lazy - maybe they aren't.... but that is your area - be aware that there are many diverse areas other than wherever you are and that the circumstances are very different there.

 

[MP5]

If you are black or mexican and poor it is society's fault.

I don't have a lot of money and it is my fault. I should not have gone to college and borrowed so much money, but...I am smart enough to budget my money.

The pooreer you are, and the darker you are, the easier it is for you to go to college. And if you think you are too dumb to make it through college then you are too dumb to make it in this world. Fucking democrats, since they are lazy they want to tax the shit out of the hardworking and make them poor too.

 

[rudedawg]

well? A lot of folks would have us believe that people are poor because they fucked up somewhere along the way. ..it's all their fault.

I don't believe it.

1. Not everyone can afford college, even community college
2. If you pick a field of study that isn't in demand, such as computer science (it is NOT in demand right now) and you went to a second tier or lower school
3. How can you save any real money if your cost of living is high? Many people here assume that it is acceptable to live in a slum so you can save money

By poor, I mean over 25 and making $30K or less.

Yes it is your fault if you don't have enough sense and ambition to make enough money so that you aren't considered "poor".

1. Not everyone has to go to college to be successful. And even if you do decide to go to college....... their are lots and lots of people that WORK so they can afford college.

2. Well if you picked a field that isn't in demand then you fucked up. You should have done your homework better when you decided what you wanted to be.....IF>>> IF money is the reason you are choosing a career path.

3. Roommates, be frugal, don't eat out, use coupons, sell your car and ride a bike, bus,etc... or here is a novel idea......WALK. My sis and bro - in - law get by on one income with 5 kids. He averages 35K per year. They don't have lots of "toys" but they are still happy.

Get the hell off of the internet and get to work.

 

[Lao Tzu]

in the 3rd world some kids work 14 hours a day in manual labor jobs for a few cents an hour. what can they do? they work harder than any of us ever will at an age when we were busy playing video games all day.

there are barriers. not everyone is equal geographically or mentally. these barriers need to be addressed logically for poverty to be dealt with.

 

[MP5]

pack up and move, and if you cannot, then quit fucking all the time, having more kids, thus increasing your poverty.

 

[HappyScrappy]

it is impressive to me the number of people on there that attribute their success to their own hard work.

it is much more self gratifying to sit back and pat yourself on the back for how much better you are and how hard you worked - than it is to sit back and look at all the great breaks you were dealt.

I'm the first to admit - I was extremelly fortunate to have good genetics to run well, and I have the ability to learn - so I was smart and an athlete and got to go to a great school. from there that opened doors to me for interview - I look normal and I happen to speak well - so I get the job.
fantastic - did I work for it - some - but a lot of it was controlled by things that I had no bearing on at all other than being there.

 

[BO-CEPHUS]

I'm not in favor of giving a dime to greedy ass corporations that over pay employees, then lay them off, forcing them towards the poverty level.


That's welfare as well.

And the weak-ass argument that it will destroy the economy is bullshit. These (airlines) were failing before Sept 11th, and even with the welfare checks, they're still about to go bankrupt.....so that was taxpayer money just wasted....poof, gone. If anybody loses business, no matter how big, you should suffer just like us small businesses.....you wither up and die....no bailouts with my money. No more welfare, for supposedly rich, smart, people.

And change the procedures for poor people.

Agree with this also, but just a couple comments.

The money that was given to the airlines was essentially the same money that the govt stole from them in taxes. Recently, I read where approx 60% of the price of an airline ticket goes to pay the cost of taxes.

So instead of bailing them out with their own money, maybe the govt should get rid of the ridiculous taxes. That would help the airlines much more and the price of tickets would probably be a little cheaper in the end.

 

[dballer]

pack up and move, and if you cannot, then quit fucking all the time, having more kids, thus increasing your poverty.

MP5... just think.. we could spend all day chewing the fat.. slapping eachoter five.. waiting by the mailbox... smokin some high ball.. eatin some honey buns... drinkin some Schlitz Malt Liqour Bull.... and driving around in a old Ford Granada with $5000 wheels.

Sound good??

 

[gymnpoppa]

in the 3rd world some kids work 14 hours a day in manual labor jobs for a few cents an hour. what can they do? they work harder than any of us ever will at an age when we were busy playing video games all day.

there are barriers. not everyone is equal geographically or mentally. these barriers need to be addressed logically for poverty to be dealt with.

I agree.

You're right BOCEPHUS, stop taxing the hell out of EVERY thing that exists.......things were alot cheaper years ago.....before the government put their greedy ass hands all over it.

 

[Lao Tzu]

the average slave works harder than any of us ever will. even if you take the greatest success story in this thread, i bet that person didn't face as much suffering or work as hard as a slightly above average slave did 200 years ago. but slaves made nothing.

 

[rudedawg]

pack up and move, and if you cannot, then quit fucking all the time, having more kids, thus increasing your poverty.

 

[MP5]

hell yeah, we could also watch a lot of talk shows, bang underaged chicks. Put a weight bench in the front yard, and salute our homies that are on lockdown, Fucking racist judicial system! (had nothing to do with the gun he pulled at the liquor store)

granada!!!! That is funny shit.

 

[HappyScrappy]

hell yeah, we could also watch a lot of talk shows, bang underaged chicks. Put a weight bench in the front yard, and salute our homies that are on lockdown, Fucking racist judicial system! (had nothing to do with the gun he pulled at the liquor store)

granada!!!! That is funny shit.

LOL - nice generalization. I don't think anyone on this thread is arguing that those people aren't the ones we are talking about.

you are saying that all poor people are like that. maybe there are some like that - maybe there are many like that. but not all are like that.
not all poor people are that way due to things they can control.

just the same way that, as much as you'd like to believe it, you are the way you are due to very much control - hell - you are racist, yet did you have any choice or control in that you were born white? nope - just chance really in the grand scheme of things.

 

[dballer]

THE WEIGHT BENCH IN THE FRONT YARD!!!!

holy shit... I about pissed my pants!!!!

 

[HappyScrappy]

OK, my take on slavery:

1801: We fed the black man, clothed them, provided them medical care, housed them and got them to work for us.

2001: today we feed them, clothe them, provide them medical care, house them, yet we don't get any work out of them!

you forgot the beatings, the rape of the women, the killing, the fact that we stole them from another country.

it is so easy for you to say as long as it isn't you - but what if India decided that they were going to come over here and just start grabbing whitey's and making them work in their country? you would hate that right?

you are so close minded that is really funny - I enjoy your posts just because it makes me feel smarter.

 

[Lao Tzu]

true. based on what MP5 said in another thread on this board, he learns shit almost instantly. if he had been born with an IQ of 50 right now he would be in a group home living off a diet of oatmeal & milk.

LOL - nice generalization. I don't think anyone on this thread is arguing that those people aren't the ones we are talking about.

you are saying that all poor people are like that. maybe there are some like that - maybe there are many like that. but not all are like that.
not all poor people are that way due to things they can control.

just the same way that, as much as you'd like to believe it, you are the way you are due to very much control - hell - you are racist, yet did you have any choice or control in that you were born white? nope - just chance really in the grand scheme of things.

 

[rudedawg]

it is impressive to me the number of people on there that attribute their success to their own hard work.

it is much more self gratifying to sit back and pat yourself on the back for how much better you are and how hard you worked - than it is to sit back and look at all the great breaks you were dealt.

I'm the first to admit - I was extremelly fortunate to have good genetics to run well, and I have the ability to learn - so I was smart and an athlete and got to go to a great school. from there that opened doors to me for interview - I look normal and I happen to speak well - so I get the job.
fantastic - did I work for it - some - but a lot of it was controlled by things that I had no bearing on at all other than being there.

Fuck that......... I believe you make your "breaks". That whole luck thing is bullshit. I made a shitload of money playing pro ball.....then guess what I was as poor as any MOFO ever has been. Money was gone and I didn't know what I was going to do. Didn't have a degree and didn't get a "JOB". I decided I was going to make what I was worth and if it worked it worked. Had to live with my parents for 2 years before I could pull myself out of the pit that I dug for myself and my family. Talk about humility......live with your parents with your 2 adolescent kids when you are 30. Did I get any breaks.......only fucking break I got was being able to live in my parents house (which I paid rent, bills, etc...)

 

[dballer]

LOL - nice generalization. I don't think anyone on this thread is arguing that those people aren't the ones we are talking about.

you are saying that all poor people are like that. maybe there are some like that - maybe there are many like that. but not all are like that.
not all poor people are that way due to things they can control.

True.. not all poor people are like that... but these are the folks who make us wish we did not have to give money to the lazy shitbags.

 

[rudedawg]

the average slave works harder than any of us ever will. even if you take the greatest success story in this thread, i bet that person didn't face as much suffering or work as hard as a slightly above average slave did 200 years ago. but slaves made nothing.

and your point is???????

 

[HappyScrappy]

Fuck that......... I believe you make your "breaks". That whole luck thing is bullshit. I made a shitload of money playing pro ball.....then guess what I was as poor as any MOFO ever has been. Money was gone and I didn't know what I was going to do. Didn't have a degree and didn't get a "JOB". I decided I was going to make what I was worth and if it worked it worked. Had to live with my parents for 2 years before I could pull myself out of the pit that I dug for myself and my family. Talk about humility......live with your parents with your 2 adolescent kids when you are 30. Did I get any breaks.......only fucking break I got was being able to live in my parents house (which I paid rent, bills, etc...)

okay - so then you got a break.

when you see poor people - you are saying it is their fault.

yet many people on here are saying that they were poor for some period of time - and then got out of it. okay.
so say you walk into some neighborhood and you point out who you see as poor. you say it is their fault.
how do you know they aren't in the process of pulling out of it?

what if someone saw you during the time that you were poor and said it was your fault? was it?
how is that different than other people?

 

[Big Brother Val]

it is impressive to me the number of people on there that attribute their success to their own hard work.

it is much more self gratifying to sit back and pat yourself on the back for how much better you are and how hard you worked - than it is to sit back and look at all the great breaks you were dealt.

I'm the first to admit - I was extremelly fortunate to have good genetics to run well, and I have the ability to learn - so I was smart and an athlete and got to go to a great school. from there that opened doors to me for interview - I look normal and I happen to speak well - so I get the job.
fantastic - did I work for it - some - but a lot of it was controlled by things that I had no bearing on at all other than being there.

I especially love to hear people born into a wealthy family say things like that. "it's not that hard, quit being lazy".

Yet, I could say the same thing about them in the gym, right? The gym is hard work... so why is it that most wealthy people are overweight?

Wait a minute...

fat=lazy.
poor=lazy.
fat+poor=lazy.
in shape=not lazy.
wealthy= not lazy.
in shape + wealthy=not lazy.

So, by mathematical proof we say that the only people in life who aren't lazy are people who are wealthy AND in shape. What's that... about .05% of the world's population?

Just depends on how you look at it?

Do I have a lot of money?

No.

Am I in good shape?

Damn right.

So am I lazy? Or am I not?

Is it really that cut and dry?

It's easy for me to say, now that I am where I am physically, to people who are fat, and just starting out in the gym, that it just takes time and effort and to stick with it, and not be lazy. Just like wealthy people say to poor people, right?

What if someone has a thyroid problem? Or an "eating disorder" or doesn't have enough money to afford a gym payment... well damn them all to hell... because if they weren't "lazy", their lives would be different.

If it truly was easy, then there would be a lot more wealthy people. Just like if going to the gym was easy, there would be a lot less fat people.

There are a LOT of factors that come into play... not just "get off your ass."

 

[dballer]

you forgot the beatings, the rape of the women, the killing, the fact that we stole them from another country.

it is so easy for you to say as long as it isn't you - but what if India decided that they were going to come over here and just start grabbing whitey's and making them work in their country? you would hate that right?

you are so close minded that is really funny - I enjoy your posts just because it makes me feel smarter.

well suggestion in this case to their problem of being Free.. is go back ot Africa and be cannibals like they used to be then they can spend the rest of their lives throwing coconuts, chasing eachother and swinging from a tree.

 

[HappyScrappy]

True.. not all poor people are like that... but these are the folks who make us wish we did not have to give money to the lazy shitbags.

not arguing there - the people like that suck - but to say they are all like that is wrong.
the lazy fucks - annoying as hell - fuck, I know lazy people my age that are rich, but living off their parents money - were they from a different family, they'd be just like the lazy fucks you are complaining about.

just b/c someone is poor, that doesn't mean they are always automatically bad and/or lazy.

 

[Lao Tzu]

and your point is???????

i honestly can't remember. fucking nootropics. i'm dumber now actually.

i think it was about how everyone just assumes

hard work = success

w/o taking into account the 100 or so variables that determine how effective hard work is. if you take a mentally & physically disabled slave & compare how hard he worked & how much shame/suffering he put up with compared to someone born with an IQ of 180 who breezed through yale business school & now makes $120 an hour the slave would have worked harder & put up with more shit but have less to show for it in the end.

 

[Big Brother Val]

Fuck that......... I believe you make your "breaks". That whole luck thing is bullshit. I made a shitload of money playing pro ball.....then guess what I was as poor as any MOFO ever has been. Money was gone and I didn't know what I was going to do. Didn't have a degree and didn't get a "JOB". I decided I was going to make what I was worth and if it worked it worked. Had to live with my parents for 2 years before I could pull myself out of the pit that I dug for myself and my family. Talk about humility......live with your parents with your 2 adolescent kids when you are 30. Did I get any breaks.......only fucking break I got was being able to live in my parents house (which I paid rent, bills, etc...)

So what would have happened if you didn't have your parents to live with? What would have happened to your kids? Was that luck? Did you make that "break" yourself? Or was it given to you by your parents?

 

[MP5]

I have never seen a single person with a steady job, with no children that has an excuse for being poor. If you don't have any money don't;

buy a vehicle you cannot afford.
put a $1000 stereo in your car.
have children.
rack up a credit card.
use tobacco.
use drugs.

 

[HappyScrappy]

well suggestion in this case to their problem of being Free.. is go back ot Africa and be cannibals like they used to be then they can spend the rest of their lives throwing coconuts, chasing eachother and swinging from a tree.

by far one of the more educated responses I've ever seen.

cannibals? coconuts? trees? have you been to Africa - fuck - have you seen pictures of africa?

that was fucking hilarious...

 

[dballer]

I am just tired of these people who WILL NOT work.. they are just waiting for us to earn it, bring it in the house, put it on the table and feed'em.

 

[HappyScrappy]

I have never seen a single person with a steady job, with no children that has an excuse for being poor. If you don't have any money don't;

buy a vehicle you cannot afford.
put a $1000 stereo in your car.
have children.
rack up a credit card.
use tobacco.
use drugs.

one of my friends girlfriends works a 10 hour shift at a juice factory. she has no car. no stereo. very few clothes. no kids. can't get credit cards. doesn't smoke, and doesn't use drugs.

yet she might have to move back with her parents b/c she can't get by on how little she is making.

again - your thinking is more close minded than you even know

 

[gymnpoppa]

well suggestion in this case to their problem of being Free.. is go back ot Africa and be cannibals like they used to be then they can spend the rest of their lives throwing coconuts, chasing eachother and swinging from a tree.

This is so far from the topic, it's ridiculous. Is it really that difficult to offer constructive comments without it degenerating into derogatory racist comments?

 

[OMEGA]

the poor are at a competitive disadvantage for success in the US.

we have been indoctrinated in this country to believe that we all start on the same "starting line" in the race that is capatalism.

we do not. people with inherited wealth, and huge coorporations have used their influence in the political process, to "fix" the game, and assure a permament lead in the race.

from massive tax breaks, to free resource allocation, to tax shelters, that the "common " folk have no access too.

Sure this country is great, but if you really think that we have a "fair game" here you are mistaken.

Are things really that great.....ask your self?

americans work more than any other industrialized society on earth.

amercan work 160 more hours a year than they did 10 years ago alone

americans only needed one person from a 4 member family to work outside the home 40 years ago, to sustains a "middle class" lifestyle. NOW tey need both parents, (if present) and kids working to sustain that life style........

well freinds what happened.....am I wrong???????? NO.

this country is great.....but little by little it is being stolen from us, from our rights being taken away, through RUBY RIDGE< WACO< GUN LAWS........ and ECONOMIC thievery..we a re truly being screwed.

and the most unfortunate thing of all...is those who deem themselves as "conservative" only recognize the withering away of our civil liberties, while largely ignoring or denying the economic thievery that is going on.......

and the "liberals" somewhat recognize..the economic thievery...yet don't recognize the violation of our rights........


???? accident or fixed party politics?

 

[dballer]

by far one of the more educated responses I've ever seen.

cannibals? coconuts? trees? have you been to Africa - fuck - have you seen pictures of africa?

that was fucking hilarious...

I thought someone would laugh at that one.

 

[rudedawg]

okay - so then you got a break.

when you see poor people - you are saying it is their fault.

yet many people on here are saying that they were poor for some period of time - and then got out of it. okay.
so say you walk into some neighborhood and you point out who you see as poor. you say it is their fault.
how do you know they aren't in the process of pulling out of it?

what if someone saw you during the time that you were poor and said it was your fault? was it?
how is that different than other people?

What break was that? That I had some place to live.

I am saying that if they didn't want to be poor they wouldn't be poor.

Fuck yes it was my fault. I was a dumb fuck and didn't save any money. I spent it and spent it well. Had 2 very nice cars that were costing a shitload in gas, insurance, and payments, way too many toys (big screen tv's, vcr's, video cameras, latest fashion clothes, watches, cell phones, etc)...... all the shit that you don't NEED.

Same way I see these dumb fucks shopping for supper at the convenience store or eating out every fucking day because they are too lazy to make some food. Or buying that 12 pack of beer for the night. Or the 2 packs of cigarettes at a time thing.

 

[gymnpoppa]

I especially love to hear people born into a wealthy family say things like that. "it's not that hard, quit being lazy".

Yet, I could say the same thing about them in the gym, right? The gym is hard work... so why is it that most wealthy people are overweight?

Wait a minute...

fat=lazy.
poor=lazy.
fat+poor=lazy.
in shape=not lazy.
wealthy= not lazy.
in shape + wealthy=not lazy.

So, by mathematical proof we say that the only people in life who aren't lazy are people who are wealthy AND in shape. What's that... about .05% of the world's population?

Just depends on how you look at it?

Do I have a lot of money?

No.

Am I in good shape?

Damn right.

So am I lazy? Or am I not?

Is it really that cut and dry?

It's easy for me to say, now that I am where I am physically, to people who are fat, and just starting out in the gym, that it just takes time and effort and to stick with it, and not be lazy. Just like wealthy people say to poor people, right?

What if someone has a thyroid problem? Or an "eating disorder" or doesn't have enough money to afford a gym payment... well damn them all to hell... because if they weren't "lazy", their lives would be different.

If it truly was easy, then there would be a lot more wealthy people. Just like if going to the gym was easy, there would be a lot less fat people.

There are a LOT of factors that come into play... not just "get off your ass."

Anybody care to refute the logic of this? I mean with constructive rebuttal. thanks......

Omega, what's up? Nice post bro, but you're beating a dead horse.

 

[OMEGA]

the poor are at a competitive disadvantage for success in the US.

we have been indoctrinated in this country to believe that we all start on the same "starting line" in the race that is capatalism.

we do not. people with inherited wealth, and huge coorporations have used their influence in the political process, to "fix" the game, and assure a permament lead in the race.

from massive tax breaks, to free resource allocation, to tax shelters, that the "common " folk have no access too.

Sure this country is great, but if you really think that we have a "fair game" here you are mistaken.

Are things really that great.....ask your self?

americans work more than any other industrialized society on earth.

amercan work 160 more hours a year than they did 10 years ago alone

americans only needed one person from a 4 member family to work outside the home 40 years ago, to sustains a "middle class" lifestyle. NOW tey need both parents, (if present) and kids working to sustain that life style........

well freinds what happened.....am I wrong???????? NO.

this country is great.....but little by little it is being stolen from us, from our rights being taken away, through RUBY RIDGE< WACO< GUN LAWS........ and ECONOMIC thievery..we a re truly being screwed.

and the most unfortunate thing of all...is those who deem themselves as "conservative" only recognize the withering away of our civil liberties, while largely ignoring or denying the economic thievery that is going on.......

and the "liberals" somewhat recognize..the economic thievery...yet don't recognize the violation of our rights........


???? accident or fixed party politics?

trying to avoid this getting trapped in between quibiling

 

[rudedawg]

So what would have happened if you didn't have your parents to live with? What would have happened to your kids? Was that luck? Did you make that "break" yourself? Or was it given to you by your parents?

If it wouldn't have been them it would have been someone or I would have rented a cheap ass apt and dealt with it.

What I am saying is this....... If I didn't have them, I would have MADE something happen. I might have worked a night job, deliverd newspapers in the early morning hours......something to make enough money to support my family.

 

[dballer]

hell yeah, we could also watch a lot of talk shows, bang underaged chicks. Put a weight bench in the front yard, and salute our homies that are on lockdown, Fucking racist judicial system! (had nothing to do with the gun he pulled at the liquor store)

granada!!!! That is funny shit.

I am still laughing at this one!!!!

 

[HappyScrappy]

Same way I see these dumb fucks shopping for supper at the convenience store or eating out every fucking day because they are too lazy to make some food. Or buying that 12 pack of beer for the night. Or the 2 packs of cigarettes at a time thing. [/B]

as I've said before - I'm not going to disagree on this point.
I'm with you 100% on hating the people that leech off of the system, that are too lazy or whatever it is to get out.

but what I'm trying to say is that a lot of you are saying that all of the poor are lazy simply b/c they are poor - whereas I'm trying to say that some are - but there are lazy wealthy people too.

BTW - that is cool that you are aware that it was your fault and you got it back together. takes time.

 

[MP5]

dballer, you are my hero! That was some funny shit!

I love how since I am intelligent, and have listened to both side's arguements, and come up with a conclusion that I am close minded. I have listened to the monorites whine and moan, and I just don't see it.

it is true there are people out there not making shit for money such as the broad in the juice factory, but how common is that? Maybe she has no skills or and education that she should have gotten.

a stereotype= a common conclusion from several people.

 

[Big Brother Val]

If it wouldn't have been them it would have been someone or I would have rented a cheap ass apt and dealt with it.

What I am saying is this....... If I didn't have them, I would have MADE something happen. I might have worked a night job, deliverd newspapers in the early morning hours......something to make enough money to support my family.

I hear you, and I agree with you. For people like us, we have to MAKE it happen. But it's a slow, gradual process. Just like bodybuilding.

I'm just sick of people with a shitload of money, who forgot what it was like to struggle, to say: "Get off your ass and stop being lazy."

We are not all at the same starting point financially... just as we are not the same genetically.

The people who leech of the system suck. I agree.

But there are some out there with problems that were given to them, not problems they caused.

 

[Train Harder]

well? A lot of folks would have us believe that people are poor because they fucked up somewhere along the way. ..it's all their fault.

I don't believe it.

1. Not everyone can afford college, even community college
2. If you pick a field of study that isn't in demand, such as computer science (it is NOT in demand right now) and you went to a second tier or lower school
3. How can you save any real money if your cost of living is high? Many people here assume that it is acceptable to live in a slum so you can save money

By poor, I mean over 25 and making $30K or less.

My Father grew up dirt poor, whet to a tech school for high school. He then got a job drafting for a civil engineering firm. He spent eight years in Hopkins night school earning his professional engineering degree. All the while raising four kids and making house payments on his meager income. 16 years ago he opened his own civil engineering firm and makes a very respectable living. His brothers and sisters never went to college and it shows. I'm sure my father didn't make it on hard work it was mostly luck.
Quit crying abouit the situation and start doing something about it. Perhaps your poor because your to busy whining about how good everybody else has it, instead of going after it yourself

 

[rudedawg]

What if someone has a thyroid problem? Or an "eating disorder" or doesn't have enough money to afford a gym payment... well damn them all to hell... because if they weren't "lazy", their lives would be different.

If it truly was easy, then there would be a lot more wealthy people. Just like if going to the gym was easy, there would be a lot less fat people.

There are a LOT of factors that come into play... not just "get off your ass."

You do not have to have a gym to be in shape. But you can't be lazy to be in shape. Push-ups, sit-ups, leg lifts, jumping jacks, wall squats, etc...... etc........ don't take one penny to do.....but they do take some ambition and motivation.

 

[HappyScrappy]

dballer, you are my hero! That was some funny shit!

I love how since I am intelligent, and have listened to both side's arguements, and come up with a conclusion that I am close minded. I have listened to the monorites whine and moan, and I just don't see it.

it is true there are people out there not making shit for money such as the broad in the juice factory, but how common is that? Maybe she has no skills or and education that she should have gotten.

a stereotype= a common conclusion from several people.

lol - "several people" - let me guess, you were a stats major.

just out of curiosity - if you are so intelligent, why does your debating style largely consist of insults?

and that girl that works in a juice factory went to a well known engineering school and is extremely bright.

mp5, have you ever lived anywhere else in the country?
in the world? have you travelled? have you been around people of different types?

 

[rudedawg]

by far one of the more educated responses I've ever seen.

cannibals? coconuts? trees? have you been to Africa - fuck - have you seen pictures of africa?

that was fucking hilarious...

ROFLMAO

 

[rudedawg]

I have never seen a single person with a steady job, with no children that has an excuse for being poor. If you don't have any money don't;

buy a vehicle you cannot afford.
put a $1000 stereo in your car.
have children.
rack up a credit card.
use tobacco.
use drugs.

I totally agree with this.

 

[Big Brother Val]

You do not have to have a gym to be in shape. But you can't be lazy to be in shape. Push-ups, sit-ups, leg lifts, jumping jacks, wall squats, etc...... etc........ don't take one penny to do.....but they do take some ambition and motivation.

Very true... but then you have to worry about diet as well. You know from experience it costs more to eat healthy than it does to eat the shit food.

Granted they can jog, do crunches, and pushups, and use water jugs, or milk jugs for weight...

I'm just saying, as you have, that it takes determination, time, and effort. Just like money.

So how can wealthy people who are fat not be considered lazy also?

It's the same as calling the poor "lazy" for being poor.

We don't know why they are. We don't know what happened. People are too busy making generalizations about the poor to even think that something just might have happened to them that they haven't been able to recover from financially... let alone get back on their feet and become successful again.

 

[rudedawg]

one of my friends girlfriends works a 10 hour shift at a juice factory. she has no car. no stereo. very few clothes. no kids. can't get credit cards. doesn't smoke, and doesn't use drugs.

yet she might have to move back with her parents b/c she can't get by on how little she is making.

again - your thinking is more close minded than you even know

BULLSHIT!!!!!!! What the fuck does she spend her money on??????

 

[needleboy]

needleboy - your father worked hard - fantastic - but during that time - you were poor. was that his fault? he isn't poor now - my parents aren't poor now either - but we just went through the biggest economic boom the world has ever seen.

have you been through a recession? the last one was 1989 I think... until 90-something... 92, 93?

we are raised to believe that we can do anything we want. but in reality, it takes hard work (as you've said), and then some chance in there.

Happy, my point is being poor should not be a perminent thing!
Recession- Bro I'm 32 I saw Jimmy Carter almost destroy the economy, and lived thru it!

Why was my family poor- my dad made some bad decisions after the Marines- LIKE NOT GETTING HIS DEGREE BEFORE HAVING KIDS! So he made up for those mistakes woth hard work.

I also worked my way thru college. I HAVE NO TRUST FUND, AND NO MONEY TO FALL BACK ON! At one point I delivered appliances 45-50 hours per week, and took classes at night.

BEING POOR CAN BE A DECISION NOT TO MAKE THE NECESSARY EFFORT TO MAKE YOURSELF SUCCESSFUL!

 

[HappyScrappy]

Re: Re: if you are poor, is it your fault?

My Father grew up dirt poor, whet to a tech school for high school. He then got a job drafting for a civil engineering firm. He spent eight years in Hopkins night school earning his professional engineering degree. All the while raising four kids and making house payments on his meager income. 16 years ago he opened his own civil engineering firm and makes a very respectable living. His brothers and sisters never went to college and it shows. I'm sure my father didn't make it on hard work it was mostly luck.
Quit crying abouit the situation and start doing something about it. Perhaps your poor because your to busy whining about how good everybody else has it, instead of going after it yourself

several people are using this as an arguement that poor people are lazy. by stating that they know someone close to them that was poor, this person worked hard, and is no longer poor.
but they are saying for that time they were indeed poor.

your father grew up poor, then a tech high school. so let's say he graduated when he was 18, that was 18 years so far of being poor. then let's say straight from there he went to Hopkins, and that is 8 more years - 26 years have passed... still poor.

so 26 years he was poor as you said above.

then let's say that the instant he started his own business, he started doing well and was no longer poor - that means he has had 16 years of not being poor.

so as I see it, he has had more years being poor than he has as being not poor.

and you are saying the poor are lazy.

so does that mean that your dad was lazy for 26 years?


sure doesn't sound like he was to me - but how can you say any other poor person was/is.

sure, we all agree there are people that leech off the system.

but not everyone.

wake up, look around.

 

[HappyScrappy]

BULLSHIT!!!!!!! What the fuck does she spend her money on??????

rent. it is crazy here. boston has some of the best jobs in the world - but in order to work at them, you have to live in the area, and in order to live here - you have to pay entirely too much.

she lives with 6 other people, and he share of that rent is $450 - and that is the cheapest apt I've ever heard of here. she lives with her boyfriend and he pays half of that rent.

she also has school loans that she needs to pay for.

and food.

what city do you live in?

 

[rudedawg]

as I've said before - I'm not going to disagree on this point.
I'm with you 100% on hating the people that leech off of the system, that are too lazy or whatever it is to get out.

but what I'm trying to say is that a lot of you are saying that all of the poor are lazy simply b/c they are poor - whereas I'm trying to say that some are - but there are lazy wealthy people too.

BTW - that is cool that you are aware that it was your fault and you got it back together. takes time.

No I am saying that they are poor because they are not so much lazy but they lack ambition or motivation to change their circumstances.

 

[Lao Tzu]

BEING POOR CAN BE A DECISION NOT TO MAKE THE NECESSARY EFFORT TO MAKE YOURSELF SUCCESSFUL!

true. but the reasons behind that need to be addressed logically instead of just saying 'poor people are all black people who can work but don't want to'.

 

[Big Brother Val]

Re: Re: Re: if you are poor, is it your fault?

several people are using this as an arguement that poor people are lazy. by stating that they know someone close to them that was poor, this person worked hard, and is no longer poor.
but they are saying for that time they were indeed poor.

your father grew up poor, then a tech high school. so let's say he graduated when he was 18, that was 18 years so far of being poor. then let's say straight from there he went to Hopkins, and that is 8 more years - 26 years have passed... still poor.

so 26 years he was poor as you said above.

then let's say that the instant he started his own business, he started doing well and was no longer poor - that means he has had 16 years of not being poor.

so as I see it, he has had more years being poor than he has as being not poor.

and you are saying the poor are lazy.

so does that mean that your dad was lazy for 26 years?


sure doesn't sound like he was to me - but how can you say any other poor person was/is.

sure, we all agree there are people that leech off the system.

but not everyone.

wake up, look around.

I agree.

Also.. if someone wins 1,000,000 on a slot machine... can they boast to the poor about being lazy because they aren't motivated enough to get their asses in front of a slot machine for 10 hours a day?

No.

The pieces fell together for that person.

That doesn't make them a financial guru, or someone who worked their ass off for their money.

The poor are classified as a generalization.

Poor=Lazy. Get off your ass and change it. It's your own fault... no matter what.

I totally disagree.

Yes there are poor people who live off the system. That's fucked up, I'll admit.

But people who legitimately try, and are not making millions aren't necessarily "lazy". There could be MANY factors that the wealthy don't consider.

 

[rudedawg]

But there are some out there with problems that were given to them, not problems they caused.

But I still believe if they want to get "out" bad enough they will make "IT" happen.

 

[rudedawg]

Re: Re: if you are poor, is it your fault?

My Father grew up dirt poor, whet to a tech school for high school. He then got a job drafting for a civil engineering firm. He spent eight years in Hopkins night school earning his professional engineering degree. All the while raising four kids and making house payments on his meager income. 16 years ago he opened his own civil engineering firm and makes a very respectable living. His brothers and sisters never went to college and it shows. I'm sure my father didn't make it on hard work it was mostly luck.
Quit crying abouit the situation and start doing something about it. Perhaps your poor because your to busy whining about how good everybody else has it, instead of going after it yourself

Hear Hear. He didn't cry about the "breaks" the life had dealt him. He said "I am going to make something of myself" and he did it.

 

[HappyScrappy]

I went to school with guys that had $50 million dollar trust funds.
They sit around and play video games all day, drinking, snorting coke, and generally having fun and not going to classes.
They had really nice cars, dated lots of girls, and they were pretty much going to get to do whatever they wanted, but they sure as hell didn't need to work.

their parents worked their asses off to get that money, or perhaps their grandparents... but not them.

they are just as lazy as the people you hate, yet they have more money than most of the people in the world...

do you hate them just as much as the poor? I'll suspect not for the very good arguement that the poor that are lazy are then living off of our money.
but were those rich kids not rich, would they still be lazy? would they be one of the lazy poor?
does it matter?

 

[casavant]

I'm pretty fucking poor right now and it's my own goddamn fault. It would be easier for me to make excuses for myself and blame others or the system, but the fact is that I have made choices in life that put me where I am right now. However, I'm poor by American standards, but I'm not really poor. I have a straight vehicle, a place to live, and my bills are paid. I'm working on my situation right now, and a lot of my motivation comes from knowing that i am responsible for me. Period.

 

[Big Brother Val]

I went to school with guys that had $50 million dollar trust funds.
They sit around and play video games all day, drinking, snorting coke, and generally having fun and not going to classes.
They had really nice cars, dated lots of girls, and they were pretty much going to get to do whatever they wanted, but they sure as hell didn't need to work.

their parents worked their asses off to get that money, or perhaps their grandparents... but not them.

they are just as lazy as the people you hate, yet they have more money than most of the people in the world...

do you hate them just as much as the poor? I'll suspect not for the very good arguement that the poor that are lazy are then living off of our money.
but were those rich kids not rich, would they still be lazy? would they be one of the lazy poor?
does it matter?

VERY good point.

 

[Big Brother Val]

I don't think they'd be looked down upon like the poor because they have money, Scrappy.

I honestly don't think they would.

Who cares if they are LAZIER than poor people.

Lazy no longer becomes the issue.

What becomes the issue then is simply social status.

Wealthy is more socially acceptible than poor.

 

[Lao Tzu]

But I still believe if they want to get "out" bad enough they will make "IT" happen.

not everyone does. hence the fact that i always bring up motivation.

as a comparison, compare poverty to abusive relationships.

in abusive relationships, the abused wife usually doesn't leave until the abuser starts attacking the kids. before that time, she didn't have enough motivation to leave.

so between the start of the relationship & the time the abuser starts attacking the kids, the wife is stuck in a form of limbo where she doesn't have enough motivation to leave. this psychology needs to be addressed to help her better her life instead of jumping headfirst into stereotypes of 'she must be a masochist', etc.

please note that i am not comparing hard asses with people who endorse spousal abuse. i am just making a point that issues need to be addressed for progress to happen.

 

[HappyScrappy]

But I still believe if they want to get "out" bad enough they will make "IT" happen.

I used to really want to believe that. I grew up poor, hated every second of it. worked my ass off at jobs all of my life, and have been around many other people that were poor and trying to get out as well.
I'm doing fairly well for myself now and plan on doing better yet.

but I'm fully aware of the breaks that have come along the way.
am I whining about them? no. do I appreciate them - sure!
does everyone get those breaks - no.

so just b/c you have the breaks, and you aren't willing to allow the fact that they might be there, doesn't really give you the authority to hand out who is wrong and right, give them the benefit of the doubt.

and blame the dutch.

 

[needleboy]

Aha, But the rich kids don't want to tax me so they... I mean I can pay their bills!!

 

[rudedawg]

rent. it is crazy here. boston has some of the best jobs in the world - but in order to work at them, you have to live in the area, and in order to live here - you have to pay entirely too much.

she lives with 6 other people, and he share of that rent is $450 - and that is the cheapest apt I've ever heard of here. she lives with her boyfriend and he pays half of that rent.

she also has school loans that she needs to pay for.

and food.

what city do you live in?

She lives with 6 other people and she lives with her boyfriend and he splits the rent so her portion is $225/mo?

What is minimum wage? $5 - $6 per hour. At $5/hour working 10 hours a day she is making $250/week. What the fuck is she spending the other 3 weeks worth of pay on????? Student loan is what per month? $100 - $200. Food for one person can't be that much unless she eats out all the time...

I live in the Phoenix area.

 

[OMEGA]

the poor are at a competitive disadvantage for success in the US.

we have been indoctrinated in this country to believe that we all start on the same "starting line" in the race that is capatalism.

we do not. people with inherited wealth, and huge coorporations have used their influence in the political process, to "fix" the game, and assure a permament lead in the race.

from massive tax breaks, to free resource allocation, to tax shelters, that the "common " folk have no access too.

Sure this country is great, but if you really think that we have a "fair game" here you are mistaken.

Are things really that great.....ask your self?

americans work more than any other industrialized society on earth.

amercan work 160 more hours a year than they did 10 years ago alone

americans only needed one person from a 4 member family to work outside the home 40 years ago, to sustains a "middle class" lifestyle. NOW tey need both parents, (if present) and kids working to sustain that life style........

well freinds what happened.....am I wrong???????? NO.

this country is great.....but little by little it is being stolen from us, from our rights being taken away, through RUBY RIDGE< WACO< GUN LAWS........ and ECONOMIC thievery..we a re truly being screwed.

and the most unfortunate thing of all...is those who deem themselves as "conservative" only recognize the withering away of our civil liberties, while largely ignoring or denying the economic thievery that is going on.......

and the "liberals" somewhat recognize..the economic thievery...yet don't recognize the violation of our rights........


???? accident or fixed party politics?

hi BRI

me beating a dead horse

 

[Lao Tzu]

and blame the dutch.

everyone knows the jews are responsible for the economic conditions today.

 

[Warik]

what if India decided that they were going to come over here and just start grabbing whitey's and making them work in their country? you would hate that right?

Different story. Whitey didn't walk into Africa and say "gimme slaves." Africa asked Whitey: "HEY, WANT SOME SLAVES?"

They sold their own people into slavery. Unfair to solely blame whitey, although he was wrong in some respects.

Oh, and to answer the question this thread poses, yes, if you are poor it's your fucking fault. My dad used to be poor as fuck way back before I was born and he first came to this country. He didn't spend his whole day going: "fucking government... fucking conservatives... fucking rich people... fuck this fuck that." He knew it wasn't their fault that he was poor. He always tells me: "if you have a problem get up and fix it." Well shit, he got up and fixed it and now his only response when my sister says: "Can we go to Disney World for my birthday?" is "Ok."

It's not impossible - for anyone.

-Warik

 

[rudedawg]

I went to school with guys that had $50 million dollar trust funds.
They sit around and play video games all day, drinking, snorting coke, and generally having fun and not going to classes.
They had really nice cars, dated lots of girls, and they were pretty much going to get to do whatever they wanted, but they sure as hell didn't need to work.

their parents worked their asses off to get that money, or perhaps their grandparents... but not them.

they are just as lazy as the people you hate, yet they have more money than most of the people in the world...

do you hate them just as much as the poor? I'll suspect not for the very good arguement that the poor that are lazy are then living off of our money.
but were those rich kids not rich, would they still be lazy? would they be one of the lazy poor?
does it matter?

I don't HATE anyone for being poor or lazy for that matter. I do have serious disrespect for people that lack motivation or ambition to make things better for themselves and their families.

 

[Lao Tzu]

Oh, and to answer the question this thread poses, yes, if you are poor it's your fucking fault. My dad used to be poor as fuck way back before I was born and he first came to this country. He didn't spend his whole day going: "fucking government... fucking conservatives... fucking rich people... fuck this fuck that." He knew it wasn't their fault that he was poor. He always tells me: "if you have a problem get up and fix it." Well shit, he got up and fixed it and now his only response when my sister says: "Can we go to Disney World for my birthday?" is "Ok."

It's not impossible - for anyone.

-Warik

psychologists have found a mental illness called 'learned helplessness'. if you strap a dog down in an electrified box, then electrocute it, it will suffer badly. if you then put the dog in another box, but don't strap it down, when you turn on the juice the dog will whimper & sit in the corner whereas the dog that hadn't been strapped down 10 minutes before will jump out of the box. basically, if you stress someone who has found himself unable to cope, they will give up much faster.

psychological tricks like that are important in issues like poverty. what if your dad didn't have strong mind & no one to teach him how to develop one? then he would sit around all day & whine about being poor.

 

[Warik]

do you hate them just as much as the poor? I'll suspect not for the very good arguement that the poor that are lazy are then living off of our money.
but were those rich kids not rich, would they still be lazy? would they be one of the lazy poor?
does it matter?

I hate them just as much as I hate the poor, but for different reasons.

I don't hate the poor because they are poor. I hate the poor who are poor AND who attempt to live off others' tax money instead of making a living for themselves and escaping poverty.

I don't hate the rich because they have more money than I do. I hate the rich who are rich AND do things that I find deplorable such as getting fucked up all day long and being lazy. $50 million is a lot of money, but you think it's going to last these snot-nosed brats all their lives? Lol... by the time I retire they'll be leeching off of me - I guarantee it.

-Warik

 

[Big Brother Val]

Different story. Whitey didn't walk into Africa and say "gimme slaves." Africa asked Whitey: "HEY, WANT SOME SLAVES?"

They sold their own people into slavery. Unfair to solely blame whitey, although he was wrong in some respects.

Oh, and to answer the question this thread poses, yes, if you are poor it's your fucking fault. My dad used to be poor as fuck way back before I was born and he first came to this country. He didn't spend his whole day going: "fucking government... fucking conservatives... fucking rich people... fuck this fuck that." He knew it wasn't their fault that he was poor. He always tells me: "if you have a problem get up and fix it." Well shit, he got up and fixed it and now his only response when my sister says: "Can we go to Disney World for my birthday?" is "Ok."

It's not impossible - for anyone.

-Warik

I'm sorry, but I think saying "It's not impossible - for anyone." is like saying "Being Mr. Olympia is not impossible - for anyone. You just have to hit the gym and start lifting." Ummmmmm.... no. As you know by this game we play there is a LOT that goes into play... and even though we lift our ASSES OFF, and take compounds to help us get bigger, 99.9% of us will NEVER be that big... why? If we're training, eating, and taking steroids? Why won't we be?

Aren't we all doing the same thing?

No.

There are MANY factors involved in each.

 

[rudedawg]

I'm pretty fucking poor right now and it's my own goddamn fault. It would be easier for me to make excuses for myself and blame others or the system, but the fact is that I have made choices in life that put me where I am right now. However, I'm poor by American standards, but I'm not really poor. I have a straight vehicle, a place to live, and my bills are paid. I'm working on my situation right now, and a lot of my motivation comes from knowing that i am responsible for me. Period.

Hats off to not making excuses and knowing that you have to answer to yourself.

 

[Train Harder]

Re: Re: Re: if you are poor, is it your fault?

several people are using this as an arguement that poor people are lazy. by stating that they know someone close to them that was poor, this person worked hard, and is no longer poor.
but they are saying for that time they were indeed poor.

your father grew up poor, then a tech high school. so let's say he graduated when he was 18, that was 18 years so far of being poor. then let's say straight from there he went to Hopkins, and that is 8 more years - 26 years have passed... still poor.

so 26 years he was poor as you said above.

then let's say that the instant he started his own business, he started doing well and was no longer poor - that means he has had 16 years of not being poor.

so as I see it, he has had more years being poor than he has as being not poor.

and you are saying the poor are lazy.

so does that mean that your dad was lazy for 26 years?


sure doesn't sound like he was to me - but how can you say any other poor person was/is.

sure, we all agree there are people that leech off the system.

but not everyone.

wake up, look around.

My father was 34 when he recieved his degree. I'm just pointing out he didn't accept his situation and busted his ass to change it.

 

[rudedawg]

not everyone does. hence the fact that i always bring up motivation.

as a comparison, compare poverty to abusive relationships.

in abusive relationships, the abused wife usually doesn't leave until the abuser starts attacking the kids. before that time, she didn't have enough motivation to leave.

so between the start of the relationship & the time the abuser starts attacking the kids, the wife is stuck in a form of limbo where she doesn't have enough motivation to leave. this psychology needs to be addressed to help her better her life instead of jumping headfirst into stereotypes of 'she must be a masochist', etc.

please note that i am not comparing hard asses with people who endorse spousal abuse. i am just making a point that issues need to be addressed for progress to happen.

I would call her not leaving a lack of sense or self esteem or something but not motivation.

 

[Lao Tzu]

I would call her not leaving a lack of sense or self esteem or something but not motivation.

if that is the cause it needs to be addressed in a logical way to help her better her life instead of just assuming 'she is a masochist' or 'she deserves it' or some other stereotype that only applies to 5% of the situations and doesn't make anyone's life better.

 

[rudedawg]

I used to really want to believe that. I grew up poor, hated every second of it. worked my ass off at jobs all of my life, and have been around many other people that were poor and trying to get out as well.
I'm doing fairly well for myself now and plan on doing better yet.

but I'm fully aware of the breaks that have come along the way.
am I whining about them? no. do I appreciate them - sure!
does everyone get those breaks - no.

so just b/c you have the breaks, and you aren't willing to allow the fact that they might be there, doesn't really give you the authority to hand out who is wrong and right, give them the benefit of the doubt.

and blame the dutch.

I didn't claim to be an authority and I don't believe I said anyone was right or wrong.....I gave my opinion just as you are. Yet you are bringing in all of the trust funds and friends and etc..... as if you are an authority.

Like I said I don't believe I got the "breaks".... I MADE the breaks. If the situation would have been different I would have made a different "break"