Ice cream OK on refeed day??

[nEwSkIn]

Hello

Well, since Ice cream has a considerable amount of fat present (maybe 10% or more), do you consider it to be ok for a refeed, or just too much fat to defeat the purpose?

thanx

 

[Vageta]

Ever heard of lowfat ice cream? Just follow all the fat ladies around the store that are loading up on the fat free items to lose weight... Seriously though fat free items are usually loaded with extra sugar which is usually worse than the regular version. However on a refeed day those fat free items are your biggest weapon as they supply you with plenty of carbs and no to low fat. There are countless non/low fat cookies, cakes, ice cream and various other snacks to fulfill your needs.

Or you can do like me and eat real ice cream anyways. My refeed days are anything I want and it's never stopped me from losing weight before nor will it prevent me in the forseable future. I started my refeed tonight and had an Applebee's BBQ sirloin steak with mashed potatoes and garlic bread followed up by a trip to Coldstone ice cream for a Founder's special. I have no doubt I'll wake up tomorrow looking fuller and leaner than I have all week. Not to mention I have a full day of refeeding to go.

 

[Ceebs]

Fat has no effect on leptin. It is only a caloric ballast on refeed days, and one that is more likely to be stored as bodyfat than protein or carbs when calories are high. Go lowfat or stay away.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

I'm cutting right now, and still losing at least 2 ibs a week. My refeed days tend to be centered around pizza, fajitas and pasta. I seem to lose more weight in a week following a really massive, unhealthy refeed than I do on the days following a 5ooo cal low fat refeed. But everyone is different I. I think for me it can be contributed to the fact that it speeds my metabolism back up. Last weeked I had the most massive refeed during my diet, and ended up loosing 6 ibs this week. Not to mention the fact that 4 people have told me at the end of this week that I "look more muscleular" "look thinner" or "delts and tri's look bigger". I honestly believe that after 5 or 6 days of strict keto type dieting, that it is just about impossible to gain fat in the first day out of keto, regardless of how much or what you eat.

 

[beastboy]

I'm cutting right now, and still losing at least 2 ibs a week. My refeed days tend to be centered around pizza, fajitas and pasta. I seem to lose more weight in a week following a really massive, unhealthy refeed than I do on the days following a 5ooo cal low fat refeed. But everyone is different I. I think for me it can be contributed to the fact that it speeds my metabolism back up. Last weeked I had the most massive refeed during my diet, and ended up loosing 6 ibs this week. Not to mention the fact that 4 people have told me at the end of this week that I "look more muscleular" "look thinner" or "delts and tri's look bigger". I honestly believe that after 5 or 6 days of strict keto type dieting, that it is just about impossible to gain fat in the first day out of keto, regardless of how much or what you eat.

Good info! Do you usually do a 1 or 2 day refeed?

 

[Deleted member 33117]

24 to 36 hours seems to work best for me, I stop at 24 if I start feeling bloated.

 

[nEwSkIn]

Thanx for the replies people!

I´m not doing a ckd diet, I am just restricting calories throughout the week, and then add a high-carb reffed during sunday. The diet is not hardcore though... which makes me wonder if I should risk having some fat here and there!

As for fat free ice creams and such, it´s kinda hard to find them where I live (Portugal). I´ve found out yesterday over the internet that there are fat free fig newtons, for example; how I´d love to have a few of those!! Unfortunately, they are not available near me I believe

By the way, Vageta, I am currently at 14 - 15% bf, and since my diet days are not too restrictive (about 500 below maintenance), should I keep my refeeds at 1 per week or start having them more often, like every 4 or 5 days?? Since this is new for me, I tend to fear that I will get fat for doing more refeeds, which probably would actually be the other way around... I´ve been feeling ok through the week though, maybe because I don´t cut carbs that much, I have about 180 grams every day (mainly low GI)

Thanx

 

[Vageta]

At 15% bodyfat I'd say 1 refeed per week is good enough so long as you do a sufficient one. The trick about refeeding is to not hold back because if you do then the benefits won't be as pronounced. There's been times I've eaten till I almost felt sick, however it makes the next 3-4 diet days easy because I was able to fulfill my cravings. On the refeeds where I don't eat as much or try to count calories I end up hungry by Monday or Tuesday which means I didn't get my leptin levels high enough.

Right now I usually refeed once per week but if by say Wednesday I'm really starving I will do a half day refeed. I usually judge my refeeds by my hunger level. My diet stays consistent all week so if I'm abnormally hungry after a few days then it tells me that my leptin levels are down and need a boost. I posted last night about what I ate for dinner and snack on the start of my refeed. Well I weighed this morning and I was the same weight as yesterday morning so I gained little if any water which means that I hardly filled up any glycogen. Which means I will be refeeding all day today I usually add a good 3-5 pounds of water while refeeding so when I saw no change in the scale it told me I hadn't even scratched the surface of my glycogen stores.

It sucks that you don't have access to low fat items in Portugal. Here in the US there are isles full of the crap in the grocery stores. There are brands of foods that only make low and non fat items. You may consider making your own low fat treats as well since there are about a million low fat recipes on the internet for cookies, cake, pies, etc...

Also I don't follow a CKD either, I usually eat 100-150g of carbs a day during the week. Refeeding isn't dependant on the type of diet really, the fact that you're dieting and dropping leptin levels mean you need to restore them at some point. High carb/low fat is the general rule but many of us do just fine by eating what we want and not counting calories or fat grams. I'd say just go for it one day and see what happens. My guess is you'll hit the gym strong the next week and the weight will still go down.

 

[JG1]

Vageta,

For those on a controlled carb diet...say 170g on workout days (all postworkout), and 0 on non-training days, do you still feel a weekly refeed is necessary?

If so, what would be better, a controlled refeed day, something like this:
meals 1-3: 100g high GI carbs, 50g protein, 200mg r-ALA
meals 4-6: 50g low GI carbs, 50g protein, 200mg r-ALA

Or....perhaps one all out cheat meal once a week to reset the metabolism and keep the thyroid happy?

Or....just diet straight threw without the cheat days or refeeds on this type of diet? Calories about 2350 on training days, 2000 on non-trainign days.

 

[nEwSkIn]

Vageta, thanx for all the good advice!

However I am afraid of going over 3000 cals per day. My maintenance calories are roughly 2500/day, so plus 20% of that would equal 3000. What do you think?

On the last refeed I felt sick at the end of the day, I couldn´t eat one more cookie or whatever that was sweet, which is a good thing, cause it gets you going through the week. I did not eat fatty stuff though.

Right now however, I´m anxiously waiting for tomorrow - refeed day

 

[Vageta]

However I am afraid of going over 3000 cals per day. My maintenance calories are roughly 2500/day, so plus 20% of that would equal 3000. What do you think?

Don't worry about going over maintenance, you are supposed to. Another general rule of refeeds are that the shorter duration of the refeed then the higher % over maintenance you should hit. If you do a full day or less then you should get a good bit over maintenance. If you went 36-48 hours then you would shoot for less calories each day.

What is your weight right now and how are you determining what your maintenance caloric intake is? I think a lot of us underestimate our maintenance due to the kind of foods we eat. If you eat a bad diet then you will put weight on at less than maintenance intake. Whereas a very good diet with proper timing and ratios can allow you to go over maintenance without gaining fat. I mentioned this in another thread already but I went at least 500 calories over what I "thought" was my maintenance for 2 weeks and I put on zero fat. Either my maintenance intake assumptions were wrong, or my eating methods allowed me to eat more. Whatever the reason the fact is I am able to eat more than I imagined when my intake follows some basic guidelines.

On the last refeed I felt sick at the end of the day, I couldn´t eat one more cookie or whatever that was sweet, which is a good thing, cause it gets you going through the week. I did not eat fatty stuff though.

This is exactly what I was saying. If you ate till you felt sick then you ate about as much as you could possible eat. The fact that it helped you get through the next week is proof that it worked because obviously leptin levels were boosted and your cravings subsided. If you weight at the end that week is less than the weight at the end of the previous week then I'd say it's working. Could you lose more weight if you skipped the refeed? No doubt in the short term you could, but in the long term this method is better for overall metabolism, thyroid levels, muscle mass and the ability to keep the weight off in the end.

One last thing as I already mentioned. Simply try eating some fat on your refeed day and see what happens. Some of us are telling you to keep fat low while others are saying don't worry about it. The only way to know for sure is for you to try it yourself. The absolute worst that can happen is that you may overshoot the calories a bit and put back on some of the weight that was lost the previous week which is hardly a long term set back. The best that can happen is that you continue to lose weight and won't have to worry about your refeed plan from now on.

Sometimes we just have to try things for ourselves to get the final answer. I gave up listening to other people's recycled advice long ago and decided if I had a question to be answered then I would find out for myself. I don't care if a so-and-so mod tells me that fat on a refeed day is bad. If I eat like shit one day per week and I'm still losing 2 pounds of fat a week then I'd say it's damn well worth it. I can say with absolute confidence that when I have a full day, unadultered refeed once per week that I experience the best results on my diet. Maybe if I was an aspiring pro or even an amateur bodybuilder dieting down for a contest then perhaps maybe I'd be more scientific with diet. But since I'm just a normal guy that wants to look better than 99% of the population then I think what I'm doing is the best route. I see no need to suffer needlessly for weeks on end when I can get the same results for far less work.

Oh btw you said you lived in portugal. Is it true that you guys eat a lot of salt cod.. er bacalhau?

 

[nEwSkIn]

What is your weight right now and how are you determining what your maintenance caloric intake is? I think a lot of us underestimate our maintenance due to the kind of foods we eat. If you eat a bad diet then you will put weight on at less than maintenance intake. Whereas a very good diet with proper timing and ratios can allow you to go over maintenance without gaining fat.

I will measure my weight tomorrow, however last week I was at 158, and before that as well. I haven´t lost muscle mass, just fat so far! Although I´ve started the diet recently.

I also think that if you control the timimngs and eat clean, that you can eat more without getting fatter, however lately I´ve been thinking more in terms of calories in and out. Nevertheless, I eat only clean stuff during the week. I think that a good maintenance ratio for me is 2500, and diet ratio about 1900 or 2000, what do you think?

One last thing as I already mentioned. Simply try eating some fat on your refeed day and see what happens. Some of us are telling you to keep fat low while others are saying don't worry about it. The only way to know for sure is for you to try it yourself. The absolute worst that can happen is that you may overshoot the calories a bit and put back on some of the weight that was lost the previous week which is hardly a long term set back. The best that can happen is that you continue to lose weight and won't have to worry about your refeed plan from now on.

OK, I will try tomorrow, eat basically whatever I want??? Not controlling calories nor fat? lol

I will only be able to tell if it worked by next week, where I´ll check my weight again (before the refeed).

I can say with absolute confidence that when I have a full day, unadultered refeed once per week that I experience the best results on my diet. Maybe if I was an aspiring pro or even an amateur bodybuilder dieting down for a contest then perhaps maybe I'd be more scientific with diet. But since I'm just a normal guy that wants to look better than 99% of the population then I think what I'm doing is the best route. I see no need to suffer needlessly for weeks on end when I can get the same results for far less work.

We share the same opinion on this, I also don´t aspire to be a body builder or whatever, I simply want to look good for myself. I think being at 10% consistently would be a great achievement for me. I wouldn´t need more than that Well, maybe 8% every now and then! lol

What bf % are you now, Vageta?

Oh btw you said you lived in portugal. Is it true that you guys eat a lot of salt cod.. er bacalhau?

LOL yeah over here Cod (that´s right, bacalhau!) is pretty popular... they say we have 1001 codfish recipes, there are quite a few good ones! Many of those are simple, others are full of cream and cheese (good for refeeds )

during Summer we have a lot of barbecue sardines, I love those, and they´re rich in Omega 3 and/or 6 I believe.

Portugal is pretty popular for its good food I guess, and there´s a lot to try, depending on the region you go to.

On the other hand, I think I would rather have lots of fat free or sugar free products at hand though, lol

 

[palffyfan2]

Heres a suggestion:
No ice cream
No low fat ice cream
Yes frozen yougurt
3grams of fat+23 grams of sugar per serving ) perfect for ckd

 

[Vageta]

My current bodyfat is around 12% give or take. To make a long story short I've been down to this bodyfat and up higher 3 times in the last couple of years due to a stomach condition that requires predisone(ugh!) and a shoulder injury from benching. This time however I've got everything under control and will be finally reaching my goal of 8%. Of course when I hit that I'm sure I'll want to go lower, but for now 8% is what I'm after.

While the yo-yo syndrome sucks, the benefit is that on my many trips down the bodyfat scale I have learned a lot about my body in regards to what works and what doesn't. I've tried just about every type of legitimate diet(no cabbage soup crap) and most all of them worked about the same, so now I stick to what is easiest to follow for an extended period. Which for me is high protein, moderate carbs/fats. I eat about 100-150g of carbs a day, shoot for 300g+ of protein and then about 75g of fat. I get one refeed during the week, usually on Saturday, and if I'm absolutely fiending for food during the week I will do a mini refeed on Wednesday. Right now the weight is falling off so I won't be changing up a thing.

Here is a link to some previous before and after pics and my current condition is very similar to the after pics. I might be a bit higher than 12% as I really don't calculate my bodyfat. I just measure my abdominal skinfold and if it's shrinking consistently then I'm on track.

Before and after pics.

 

[nEwSkIn]

Wow what a difference Vageta, keep it up!

thanx

 

[serge]

Hello

Well, since Ice cream has a considerable amount of fat present (maybe 10% or more), do you consider it to be ok for a refeed, or just too much fat to defeat the purpose?

thanx

NO!!!!!!!!