I took a moral stand that hurt

[OMEGA]

Hi guys I am about to type some stuff, and I don't consider my self righteous, holier than though, or above it all, far far from it.......

I am somewhat of an anomaly where I live, I am pretty religiuos, and what would be considered to be morally conservative.

but my conservatisim is not foisted on others, nor do I try to legislate morality......


however I do testify, when people ask me what I think, and I don't waiver my message relative to what I think might get me ahead faster........


I used to ride the fence alot and always use my meager capabilites for MY best advatage, but that was an exercise in manipulation, deceit, and ultimatley futile, for I was never happy with my "advatage"...............

I only did this for a short time, but it felt like an eternity, being cought in my own prison of vanity, lust, greed, and what I could only describe as a hollow existance of living one pleasure toanother and each pleasure bcame less pleasurable, the end result was just contamination of spirit.....

this is how I felt......


My conservatism stems from what I see around me.
People seem to be caught in a destructive sytmem of chasing greed, vanity, vice, and power and slef worship and worship of image. People try to use there "talent' as a comodity, so they can sell it for money, and then inturn buy goods, happness thew purcchase if you will,
and then people use their unque capabilities and use it over others, instead of helping others.
I see people stabbing each other in the back, stabbing "freinds" or people that they are mrried to or dating in the back and ingnoring the true needs of the less fortunate, and ignoring the unversal principals of life that should bind ud all, soley for there own gains and vice......


A girl I ran into for all intent and purpose was swept of her feet by me.......this was at my University, she said she never met any one like me, and needed to be around me.

I saw traits in her that were so wonderfull, I never met a girl with SUCH potential.......

any way we had been dating and I liked her more than any other girl, really close to a girl that I loved ( the only one I loved) who was a german opera singer.............

so any way she told me how one of her freinds had a one night stand, and then she told me how she had one a couple of times but only as a reaction to breaking up or some sort of stress,

I told here that I thought it was wrong. She asked why with some anger in her voice but also respect.......wierd combo....

I told her I though it is wrong for when you do things like that be it male or female you use them "as a means to an end" and that means to an end is just your own pleasure.

And to do that is to just use part of a person and to treat them as an Object, and to do that is wrong for you are just using them and they you............
I also said that I believe part of your soul or your essence brushes up against the other, and that usually when we do this act our natural inclination is o do it in love and part of our internal natural affection couples on or trys to mesh with that other person in a loving union.

but do just "do it" for sheer heathen pleasure is to shut out that part of our soul and actually contaminate it.......

and thats dangerous.........

I told her that i am not judging you or any one else but this is HOW I feel naturally inside of me.

I cannot intellectualize it nor do I need to for its a natural response in me.......and that natural response tells me it wrong....


She was not as angry when I said that.
then I asked her "hey when you had a one night stand how did you feel the day after"

she said " I felt hollow"

and then I said "why becuase he got his pleasure and you got your and you were spent in that avenue so you lost interest, becuase you got what you wanted?

and she said "no I felt alone"

and I said "examine that........"

we did not talk for a day two and were suppost to go out SAT night, she called Fri and said a freind was coming to town " a guy Freind" and then she said we should all hang out.

I said no don't worry about be live it up and have fun.......

she then called me Sat night and said she cancelled with her freind, and wanted to pick me up and take me out 50 miles away form where she lived.

she said "I feel like after I told you about my belief about one night stands and living by pleasure principle, that you Judged me. and that makes me sad for you liked me so much just before that and I don't want you to think less of me. I wnat to hug you and kiss you"

I said " it does not matter what I think, had you said your past experiece was a mistake that should not be repeated that would have been a step in the right direction, but then you also tested me and tried to play some give and take games with me challenging my honesty

I would of hung out, but since you said you believe there to be nothing wrong with going from one partner to another, and living a life of just "girl fun"

I am sorry but I cant be around that. It hurts me to say this

but I have to object for your actions are beneath you and your better than that, I don't wan't you to think I am judging you, or think less of you, but I can't be around that I am sorry and it makes me very sorrowfull that I can't see you.........good luck

 

[Mandinka2]

I did something not too dissimilar a short while ago... although she was not so enchanting to me as you describe this person but u are in this as in all things correct. Sex sucks - I have heard it from the most whorish of women , love is great.

 

[OMEGA]

it really scaring me how bad it getting these days

everything once perverse is now acceptable, and showing care and natural affection is almost scorned these days.......


I go to a Jesuit University and even my ideas are not too poular but we are IN SF as well

 

[Dial_tone]

I don't see how you call that not judging her.

 

[OMEGA]

becuse I did not limit her option or choice

I just revealed to her what I thought, and said that my moral objection as a result of the responce forces me to depart

therefor me departing is my choice, that did not force her to do anything excpet maybe "think" why I did that


to judge woud be to condemn, label, and actually attept to limit a persons options or freedom by forcing your own belif on them

I on the other hand shared and then departed, both non violent acts, and unimpsosing

it was my choice, which was compelled by belief unobstructed

 

[Fonz]

it really scaring me how bad it getting these days

everything once perverse is now acceptable, and showing care and natural affection is almost scorned these days.......


I go to a Jesuit University and even my ideas are not too poular but we are IN SF as well

Thats why you need a 5 week vacation to Europe to charge your batterries.

I am VERY burned out.

Fonz

 

[OMEGA]

ps I could be a freind, but I could never waiver from what I think to be true. And ultimatly helpfull

I just cannot offer "love" or intamacy.......

 

[OMEGA]

Thats why you need a 5 week vacation to Europe to charge your batterries.

I am VERY burned out.

Fonz

Merry Christmas Fonz

 

[Fonz]

Merry Christmas Fonz

Thanks. Likewise to you. I don't think I'll be back on the baords in at lesat a good 2months. Just too much work

FOnz

 

[big_bad_buff]

we caught suddam early this morning, you guys here

 

[OMEGA]

Thanks. Likewise to you. I don't think I'll be back on the baords in at lesat a good 2months. Just too much work

FOnz

I understand

My GPA and other University requirments are still in very good standing but this semeter due to new budding constraints I was a bit comprimised

and I am not taking a hit again like that.............

take good care Fonz and have a safe trip

 

[Fonz]

I understand

My GPA and other University requirments are still in very good standing but this semeter due to new budding constraints I was a bit comprimised

and I am not taking a hit again like that.............

take good care Fonz and have a safe trip

Thanks. And good luck with yiur gades.

FOnz

 

[OMEGA]

Thankyou, they are Good just not the A standard this semester

and I hate that

 

[Raina]

I don't think there's anything wrong with choosing what you do and do not want in your life. If you feel like you don't click on a deeper level with someone and you disagree with how they live their life, then you have every right to not want to get involved. I've had more than one friendship in my life that got to a point where our paths diverged and I opted to move on rather than welcome the conflict into my life. Does that even make sense? I don't feel like I can write out what I'm thinking.

 

[OMEGA]

the thing is is that we did click, more so than any other girl......

which saddens me deeply



thanks for the words Raina its good to get a female perspective

 

[Raina]

I think it would have been more judgemental to tell her something along the lines of "I'm right, you're wrong, if you change to what I want you to be we can get closer". But instead you chose to respectfully disagree and let her go one way while you go another.

 

[OMEGA]

also I could be a freind to her but not more , something inside me just can't.............

also

I want to point something out


in the Real world if I were ever in a position professionally or academically speaking where I held influence over another

I would never have it cloud my evalation in the professional......

that above all I detest
there is nothing worse than zelots desciminating on those that are different........

we are talking about undo influence on peoples freedom and lively hood....and no one shoudl ever has such power if you want to call it that

 

[atlantabiolab]

becuse I did not limit her option or choice

I just revealed to her what I thought, and said that my moral objection as a result of the responce forces me to depart

therefor me departing is my choice, that did not force her to do anything excpet maybe "think" why I did that


to judge woud be to condemn, label, and actually attept to limit a persons options or freedom by forcing your own belif on them

I on the other hand shared and then departed, both non violent acts, and unimpsosing

it was my choice, which was compelled by belief unobstructed

Judgements do not have to limit the freedoms of another, they simply discern the validity of a statement or proposition. You judged her actions/beliefs, which implied a judgement on her character (good vs. bad).

Before you start to backstep and rationalize how you really weren't judging her, realize that there is nothing wrong with judgements, we all do it, we are forced to do it to survive. Modern society demonizes judgements, since it thrives on irrationality, a world where all choices are equal. You have every right to judge those who will affect your life personally and by making sound judgements you ensure a greater chance at happiness. Few would say that you have no right to judge a man if he were a pedophile, but when it comes to less "criminal" matters, say a friend, or acquaintance the world wishes to close its eyes.

 

[OMEGA]

Judgements do not have to limit the freedoms of another, they simply discern the validity of a statement or proposition. You judged her actions/beliefs, which implied a judgement on her character (good vs. bad).

she asked me for my opinion therefor wanted me to reveal what I thought ( a voluntary act)

Because I felt an aversion to being inimate with her based on the information she gave

She asked me what I thought about it, and If I chose not be initmate with her that is my choice

And further my thougth and action (or lack of action rather) on the matter was not intended to do INTENTIONAL harm

Judgement is a casting throw, and gavel swinging down that condems and forces another into a position that their free will objects to, a limiting of options that may inflict some type of harm.

Me departing is a volunatry act based on me feeling uncomfortable and that is my perogative.

Since she asked what I thought rather than hide the information I chose to testify what I thought for truths sake to be honest to her, if my testimony, voids out the possibilty of freindship then that is her choice, if it is my decision no to be intimate that is my choice...


also you dont need to go there with the "Before you start to backstep and rationalize how you really weren't judging her"
sounds kinda mean and consedcending imho


sounds a little

 

[atlantabiolab]

she asked me for my opinion therefor wanted me to reveal what I thought ( a voluntary act)

But you hold this opinion, because you consider it to be true. There is no value in holding an opinion of something that you know is false.

She asked me what I thought about it, and If I chose not be initmate with her that is my choice

No one is arguing that it is not your choice. In fact, I am arguing that because it personally affects your life, then you have a moral claim to make sound judgements concerning this situation.

And further my thougth and action (or lack of action rather) on the matter was not intended to do INTENTIONAL harm

Everyone understands that every opinion that we express has the ability to "harm" others, such as in this case, albeit a very minor harm. People wish others to accept or express the same opinions that we share, it massages our ego. You were not intending to hurt with your words, but you have to realize that contradicting another's opinion places them on the defensive.

Judgement is a casting throw, and gavel swinging down that condems and forces another into a position that their free will objects to, a limiting of options that may inflict some type of harm.

This is incorrect. This is what society and modern ideologies have corrupted "judgements" into. Judgements are simply the affirmation of a proposition or discerning truth from falsity. There is no implication of maliciousness in this idea.

Moral relativism and subjectivism have corrupted this word to place an emphasis on oppression and condescension. Judgement is the basis of law. How can one determine right or wrong if he cannot judge?

also you dont need to go there with the "Before you start to backstep and rationalize how you really weren't judging her"
sounds kinda mean and consedcending imho


sounds a little

You validated my decision to make my statement. It was insinuated in your post that you hold disfavor to the idea of judgement, as evidenced in your follow up, where you define it improperly. It is a sad sign of society when it feels immoral to make value judgements. Value judgements are the basis of morality.

 

[Dial_tone]

I gathered from your post that in so many words you determined she was not worthy of your company because of her past behavior. That is clearly a judgement. If you wanted to be NON-judgemental you would have said "you know I disagree vehemently with what you've done, but it's your choice to do it...now let's go out".
Like Atlantabiolab I didn't want to imply that you're wrong for being judgemental, only that you're incorrect in thinking that you're not.

 

[ZKaudio]

bro.. dont worry, I do NOT date sluts either... i'm way too picky about my girls' history...

 

[OMEGA]

1) Judgement is the basis of law. How can one determine right or wrong if he cannot judge?



2) People wish others to accept or express the same opinions that we share, it massages our ego.



3) Moral relativism and subjectivism have corrupted this word to place an emphasis on oppression and condescension. Judgement is the basis of law. How can one determine right or wrong if he cannot judge?

1) Judgment is the basis of law in the legal sense yes where qualitative data or facts can be scrutinized by said parties to relieve a contention .

My feelings are not intended to Judge or legislate morality, and further my feelings are not a point of contention where I must be right, I simply choose to tetisfy my belief in openess.

it is not MY postition to Judge as humans we are much to flawed for that......and frankley not entitled to it

legal secular judging based on fact yes, but morality you simply testify.........and hold your ground, and then make the corresponding choices relative to your own beliefs


2) people that I know like me don't care to much if people irrationally don't like what we say,
however rationally We listen to them and care for their point of view as much as our own, Frankley I feel that I am a nothing, but at the same time I have an overlapping urge to share what I think to be Universal principals that are rooted in the non exploitation of man, nature, and Earth
therefor when I see something opressive and ultimatly demeaning like using people for quanititaive or qualitative characteristics simply as a use item to be discraded I usually keep to my self, but when asked or when someone cries out for help I stand my ground.......

again I am nothing and really don't care about the ego part or self adulation or external.....

3) again Moral judgements are different from secular ones or ones that have to do with data that is pretty unbiased when exposed to scrutiny

however when we come out and and share the moral judgment we have we should indeed testify, but to take it a step further and tell other what to do is touchy territory for even the best of us can be corruptable

so yes say what you feel and choose to exit, this is fine and good, wear it on your sleeve like I choose but legislating is different

 

[Lumberg]

I could not make head or tail of that story. Sounds like you may have been a little dogmatic to the poor girl.

So was she unrepentant for having th eone night stand or what?

 

[OMEGA]

I gathered from your post that in so many words you determined she was not worthy of your company because of her past behavior. That is clearly a judgement. If you wanted to be NON-judgemental you would have said "you know I disagree vehemently with what you've done, but it's your choice to do it...now let's go out".

everyone is worthy of care and comfort, but she wanted to be intimate and I cannot do that becuase something internal says no,
freindship sure......but more no

also it was not past behavior......that limited it.

if you acknowledge the past mistake as mistakes then wonderfull, that is the point of life..I have made plenty

but when you do something in the past and then would do it again in the present or future based on the relative "popular norm" of the act, then I am sorry thats what I think to be wrong.

I did not say this before but:

she was willing to change here story under duress striclty just to see me, in other words she was going to forsake her own opinion to appease me and what I belived,
I am not worthy of that, nor do I deserve that
also her changing of opinion based on my opinion suggest a depper seeded problem that I thought before and that makes me sad as well.........

One time I dated a ex-groupie who only changed when the law stepped in.........never mind God (yes I believe )

her heart never changed inside and only externally she did to fit the mold of popular sentiment and that is something I don't like to be in the company of those people.....

again I am not better, just differnent,

so it is in sense "better" to me and those I love and most important GOD

 

[Lumberg]

I'm still confused

 

[OMEGA]

hey thanks guys for partcipating I really appreciate it,
it helped me out

 

[Dial_tone]

I bet you're one of those damn Republicans too. LOL

 

[Fonz]

hey thanks guys for partcipating I really appreciate it,
it helped me out

When all the words have been spoken, the only one left standing is you.

Fonz

 

[b fold the truth]

I had a girlfriend who had been around A LOT!!!! She also liked using rec drugs, lying to me a lot, women, other men, etc...etc...etc... Whenever I said anything to her about it (or caught her in a BIG lie) she just kept saying that I was JUDGING her.

I don't think that it is judging when I was correct in my statement.

B True

 

[Pamela]

Omega

I don't think you were wrong or your girlfriend was wrong.

Everyone goes through different stages in their life; of growth
and development.
You are just above the realm of development of most people.
You live a spiritual life. And you see things that way.
You tell how you feel, what you see (and believe that's wrong)!


I only wonder if you "REALLY" loved this girl? I mean really?

I believe Love, Understanding and Acceptance is what a relationship and life is all about.

Pamela

 

[OMEGA]

Dial tome I think its a toss up between a VERY! liberal Republican or a VERY! conservative Democrat..............

I sed to think I was a social democrat, but there was a little too muscj interferance with the affairs of Business.......


Fonz thanks

B Fold wow , you were VERY patient and forgiving thats a strength my bro .......I wish I had more of it sometimes......

 

[OMEGA]

I only wonder if you "REALLY" loved this girl? I mean really?

too soon to have been able to tell, however the door was open for it, and it was only open for one other ( the opera singer)

but she left on good circumstances

and we were both too young.......

 

[Fonz]

Dial tome I think its a toss up between a VERY! liberal Republican or a VERY! conservative Democrat..............

I sed to think I was a social democrat, but there was a little too muscj interferance with the affairs of Business.......


Fonz thanks

B Fold wow , you were VERY patient and forgiving thats a strength my bro .......I wish I had more of it sometimes......

You can have my moderator staus when I leave OMEGA

Fonz

 

[OMEGA]

what?

youre leaving???

I thought it was just for vacation!?!!?!?!

 

[Fonz]

what?

youre leaving???

I thought it was just for vacation!?!!?!?!

I just do't think I'll have time to juggle EF and the massive amount of work necessary for grad school.

Fonz

 

[OMEGA]

when you Earn your Nobel Prize please don't forget the little people


you will do great things I am sure of it.......

 

[b fold the truth]

B Fold wow , you were VERY patient and forgiving thats a strength my bro .......I wish I had more of it sometimes......

I had no problem with the number of people that she had been with... The mistake was one that I made...believing that she was going to change when she met me.

The past is the past...as long as it stays there. So many times, though, it doesn't. The past is often a trend.

Think about when you asked her how she felt in the morning after the one night stand. Didn't she say that she felt empty? I think that is because she left a little bit of HER with that person. Many times when a woman does this many times, she has nothing left of herself to give. She doesn't have anything to give to herself and the only road that she really knows is the empty one.

Many times this if followed by a long time of not giving anything to anyone (emotionally, mentally, or physically) so that they can relearn who they are and fill themselves back up with who they are and want to be. Only then can they often really love again...themselves or someone else.

B True

 

[havoc]

Good post, great actions. peace

 

[KA-BAR]

Hmmm Intellectually I don’t think I am worthy of posting on this thread but IMO you are judging her. ON a side note if you really liked her you should have just hit it.

 

[OMEGA]

B-fold I could NOT agree with every word more bro, thansk for sharing that

Havoc thanks Bro, its good to know I am not alone

 

[OMEGA]

damn it really does hurt.........argh

I actually am having somewhat of a physiological respons out of all this

I share this not for my own counseling purpose, but more for sharing, i think its helpfull in some odd way

 

[Fragadelic]

Hey OMEGA - check your PM's, bro

 

[OMEGA]

Hey OMEGA - check your PM's, bro

thanks bro

the words offered alot to contemplate thankyou and I will get back to you

 

[OMEGA]

Hmmm Intellectually I don’t think I am worthy of posting on this thread

sure ya are