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How long on PROVIRON?
- Thread starter plex1500
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Whacked said:
Wrong. It is a 17-alpha-alkylated steroid. It is heptoxic.
Cut/Paste from Bodybuilding.com - Peter "Big Cat" Van Mol - In Depth Proviron Profile:
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Mesterolone is an oral alkylated steroid. If used primarily as an anti-aromatase drug, using it throughout a longer cycle (10-12 weeks) of injectables may elevate liver values a little bit, though much, much less than one would expect with a 17-alpha-alkylated steroid. Eventhough instead of inhibiting gains, mesterolone may actually contribute to gains. So that's a bit of a shame. Its not quite as toxic since its not alkylated in the same fashion, but at the 1 position, which reduces hepatic breakdown, but not like 17-alpha alkylation. The reason for the change of position I assume, is because alkylating at the 17-alpha position has been shown to reduce affinity for sex hormone binding proteins. This would in turn decrease its ability to free testosterone. Nonetheless the delivery rate is quite good. Its taken daily in 50-100 mg doses.
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I would not take it for longer then a normal cycle but a little longer then other orals should be fine. Say 8-12 weeks...
Whacked
New member
Nice post........however:
According to the package insert it's well tolerated by the liver and to treat Hypogonadism it requires a continuous maintenance dose of 50-75mg/day (after several months of "front loading" at 75-100mgs/day)
PHARMACOLOGICAL ACTION
Proviron balances a deficiency of androgen formation which begins to fall gradually with increasing age. Therefore, Proviron is suitable for treatment of all conditions caused by deficient endogenous androgen formation. In the recommended therapeutic dosage, Proviron will not impair spermatogenesis. Proviron is especially well tolerated by the liver.
Hypogonadism requires continuous therapy
For development of secondary male sex characteristics 1 Proviron tablet of 25 mg 3-4 times daily for several months. As maintenance dose 1 Proviron tablet of 25 mg twice or three times daily will be sufficient.
According to the package insert it's well tolerated by the liver and to treat Hypogonadism it requires a continuous maintenance dose of 50-75mg/day (after several months of "front loading" at 75-100mgs/day)
PHARMACOLOGICAL ACTION
Proviron balances a deficiency of androgen formation which begins to fall gradually with increasing age. Therefore, Proviron is suitable for treatment of all conditions caused by deficient endogenous androgen formation. In the recommended therapeutic dosage, Proviron will not impair spermatogenesis. Proviron is especially well tolerated by the liver.
Hypogonadism requires continuous therapy
For development of secondary male sex characteristics 1 Proviron tablet of 25 mg 3-4 times daily for several months. As maintenance dose 1 Proviron tablet of 25 mg twice or three times daily will be sufficient.
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Whacked said:
It may be well tollerated but it is a 17-AA and therefore heptoxic. Combine this with the fact that around here guys stack it with other AAS. Hypogonadism was not the question or use around here.
Nice post but you are wrong.
doublebicep said:
The issue was if long term use of Proviron can be tolerated by the body. According to Schering, in the treatment of Hypogonadism, continuous therapy can not only be well tolerated but is required. If the issue for you is whether or not we are talking about Hypogonadism then just remove that term entirely and read it as: Continuous therapy can be well tolerated and, if necessary (for whatever reason: hypogonadism, looking hard, binding to SHBG), required. Also, according to United Pharmacy:
Proviron® is also not a 17 alpha alkylated compound, an alteration commonly used with oral anabolic/androgenic steroids. Not using this structure in the case of Proviron® removes the notable risk of liver toxicity we normally associate with oral dosing. We therefore consider this a "safe" oral, the user having no need to worry about serious complications with use. This steroid in fact utilizes the same 1-methylation we see present on Primobolan® (methenolone), another well tolerated orally active compound. Alkylation at the one position also slows metabolism of the steroid during the first pass, although much less profoundly than 17 alpha alkylation. Likewise Proviron® and Primobolan® are resistant enough to breakdown to allow therapeutically beneficial blood levels to be achieved, although the overall bioavailability of these compounds is still much lower than methylated oral steroids.
this is getting good!!!
Whacked
New member
Singleton said:
Yup......BIG difference in the way it is metabolized in the liver. With all the ridiculously absurd exagerrated WARNINGS a drug company is forced to put on their "warning disclaimers" that we know happen to only .oo1% of the population but are required to list (FDA rules); what's that tell you that "hepatotoxicity" is NOT listed as one?? BINGO!!
Funny, not quite as toxic? It is a 17-AA oral steriod. The same rules that apply to dianabol apply to it if you are using it in a stack. You are kidding yourself if you think it is safe to take longer then any other 17-AA.
With that being said, good luck to you and your liver if you want to take it for decades. I have no problem with that. It seems that Darwin was right...
doublebicep said:
How many times does it have to be stated that Proviron is NOT 17-AA?
Proviron® is also not a 17 alpha alkylated compound, an alteration commonly used with oral anabolic/androgenic steroids. Not using this structure in the case of Proviron® removes the notable risk of liver toxicity we normally associate with oral dosing.
mt said:
1 alpha-methyl-17 beta-hydroxy-5 alpha-androstan-3-one
You are correct, it is not 17-AA. It is alkylated in the 1 position. This REDUCES liver toxicity. It does not eliminate it. So again, add it to a stack of other steriods (which around here it is always the case) then you are playing with fire to stay on the for longer then a "normal" cycle. Do you really think anyone around here is doing a Proviron only cycle?
It will elevate liver values. I just do not get your argument.
How long do you think some one who is probably not (in this case) a professional bodybuilder should take proviron? That is the question. 10 years? Forever? My take is somewhere around 6-12 weeks.
My brother-in-law who is on HRT under a doctors care has been on 200 test cyp/wk and 50mg Proviron going on 8 years now. Gets a blood test twice a year and is doing fine. It may be true that most on this board are on other 17AA orals and therefore putting their liver at risk if done long term. But the risk is from the 17AA orals not Proviron. The question was if long term use of Proviron is harmful to the liver. It probably is in the sense that all orals put some stress on your liver. Being on anti-depressants or blood pressure medications put some stress on your liver. Eating puts some stress on your liver. As far as oral steroids go, Proviron is relatively mild. There are many reasons why some may want to stay on it indefinitely. The binding of the SHBG to free up more test is a good reason. It's anti-aromatase effect. Some people like to walk around with boners all the time. Some may like the dry look you get from Proviron.
If the issue is primarily health, then one should avoid unneccessary use of drugs all together. There's always going to be some kind of side effect. More for some than for others. My doctor takes an aspirin a day simply for it's blood thinning effects. I do agree with you that it's more prudent to keep Proviron use limited to when you are on a cycle and a few weeks after that to prevent any estrogen rebound and make the most use of your body's testosterone (binding to SHGB to free up more test). But I would think that taking Proviron (say for sex drive) when not on a cycle is less stressful to the liver than when on a cycle (and sex drive is high due to all the test one is on).
If the issue is primarily health, then one should avoid unneccessary use of drugs all together. There's always going to be some kind of side effect. More for some than for others. My doctor takes an aspirin a day simply for it's blood thinning effects. I do agree with you that it's more prudent to keep Proviron use limited to when you are on a cycle and a few weeks after that to prevent any estrogen rebound and make the most use of your body's testosterone (binding to SHGB to free up more test). But I would think that taking Proviron (say for sex drive) when not on a cycle is less stressful to the liver than when on a cycle (and sex drive is high due to all the test one is on).
..... 
I love this shit!!
mt said:
Agreed. Even Tylenol (Acetaminophen) is heptoxic.
doublebicep said:
Of course, but as you pointed out, the issue is duration. If you stay on Tylenol indefinitely problems are sure to arise. Advil works wonders for me and ends all stiffness and joint pain. I'd like to feel like that all the time. But I'm careful and only use it when needed and never more than 1-2 weeks. Coincidently, I spoke with a friend last night whom I know to be a big proponent of Proviron. I asked him how he cycles and he told me that he's been on constantly for about four years. He does it because it keeps him dry and he likes the high sex drive. He's 33 years old and says he hasn't had any problems. He rarely uses (maybe about 2-3 times a year) any oral anabolics (winny) and doesn't stay on for more than six weeks. He likes test, Eq and fina. Because he also likes to dabble in rec drugs (GHB, Vicodin, other pain killers) I think he's asking for trouble. People make trade offs but they should just be aware of the consequences before making those decisions.
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