some interesting commentary form some weapons discussion board:NEVER FORGET
...Six years ago our Hero LAPD Officers saved a North Hollywood neighborhood from further harm during a Terrorist Bank Robbery Shootout that resulted in the Deaths of the 2 heavily armed Shooters...
...after ..44 Minutes.. of nothing but combat that was as real as anything seen during the Vietnam War.
.."44 MINUTES".. airs tonight at 8pm PDT on the Special Effects Cable TV Movie Channel ..'Fx'.. dramatizing the Event.
...The same Civil Rights Attorney STEPHAN YAGMAN, who sued the U.S. Government on behalf of the Al Qaeda Prisoners at our Guantamino Base in Cuba after the Attacks on US on September 11, 2001, also sued these life-saving LAPD Officers on behalf of one of the North Hollywood Bank Shooters who died on the scene.
...Att. STEPHAN YAGMAN, who has been suspended twice from practicing Law in New York and California for his stealing from his clients, also has his own Farm in CASTRO's Communist Cuba, by his own public admission immediately following his being suspended from practicing Law for a 2nd Time, this time in California.
...I wonder if .."44 MINUTES".. will be sharing this with us on National TV..?
watched it,kept wondering why it took the SWAT team to figure out they should shoot the SOB in the legs and feet. But I applaud the LAPD some brave men for sure!
regarding the weapons store
The same weapons store which has since been driven out of business by the city of Los Angeles and the state of California.....Weren't the perps wearing much more armor than was depicted in the movie? I seem to remember them having heavy leg and head protection.
It is amazing that no good guy died. My hat is off to you and the others.
...Actually MARY LOU HOLTE is the one to really show apprecitation to here.
...MARY LOU HOLTE was the Organizer of the North Hollywood Bank Shootout's 5 Anniversary Ceremonies (The 5th was the Last One held)...
...that honored our LAPD and LAFD Heroes of that Shootout. Heroes who have been sued by Att. STEPHAN YAGMAN ...resulting Hero LAPD Officer Suicides, Medical Problems and financial ruin.
...MARY LOU HOLTE is known as the "Scanner Lady" and was the first to alert Los Angeles TV Stations about an ongoing Shootout outside North Hollywood's BANK of AMERICA Branch = Enter TV Helicopters.
...MARY LOU HOLTE is also the Founder of the 'Townkeeepers Against Crime' that supports our LAPD and LAFD Heroes.
Los Angeles Heroes all around.
Yah, where they went to pick up a couple of AR-15s. When I saw the documentry on this I kept yelling at the TV "GET A F'ING DEER RIFLE YOU STUPID @#$% @#$%S!"
My Fiance wasn't impressed, but niether was she with the cop that kept babling about "We were out gunned, we had to match the fire power of these assualt rifles". What a load of crap, they should have put a .308 in the jacka$$es heads from 100 yards out..game over in less then 15 minutes..
The LAPD has my respect for bravery under fire, however, their incompentence in selecting a counter-weapon is an excellent example of what happens when the Gun Culture dies.
Bonnie and Clyde both used BA freaking Rs, what the heck would the officers had done then? The show would be called Gone is 60 Seconds and we would be morning the death of 18 or 20 officers. That is unacceptable.
I would like to have seen what a .338WM would have done to Tubby and his body armor from a couple hun yards.
Fortunately, Yagman lost, but I don't think the officer(s) named as individual defendants have ever been made whole. A couple of years ago, I lived in a city victimized by Yagman and his ACLU buddies. Those of us who'd seen the circus before tried to graft some spine on the civic leaders, but we failed. They rolled-over to the tune of a million and a half
The issue in the North Hollywood case involved a failure to provide care to one of the suspects. Those who witnessed the incident, or who overheard the radio traffic (some of which is still available on the web), are aware of the level of chaos that day. There was believed to be a third suspect in the area, there was another report of a man with a gun on a nearby roof (ultimately determined to be a SWAT member), and there was a report of a man wearing clothing identical to the suspects having entered a nearby restaurant. The fire department was staged several blocks away, as well they should be, and was dealing with large amounts of civilian and law enforcement wounded. Los Angeles is short on paramedic units on a good day, let alone in that kind of circumstance. Once the jury grasped all this, it didn't take them long to figure it out.
When I first moved to L.A., I lived in an apartment not far from the bank, and banked there, so (knowing the scene), the really scarey thing was the location of the wounded. This wasn't a situation where bullets are bouncing off the car you're behind and the damage is confined to one building on each side, there were people shot inside stores across Lankersham on the far side of that block-wide parking lot. These guys were perforating every thing in sight.
I'll watch with interest the portrayal on the show, but in the real world, that "charge of the light brigade" the SWAT team did on the second suspect took enormous huevos, gallons of adrenelin, or both.
I am still pissed. At the end they state that 12 "brave" officers risked their lives(and were injured)....They were hiding behind their cars! The SWAT team was stuck in traffic? Then they didn't have the needed weapons?? No one could make a head shot while the bad guys were reloading??
Ineptitude is no excuse for getting their asses kicked by a couple of thugs with semi-autos.
The two bank robbers were running machine guns, not semi-autos. And I can tell you without a doubt, that if I were in that situation, I would damn sure be behind the biggest chunk of American automobile I could find.....And let us never forget that the Hollywood gun store to which the LAPD turned in order to get adequate weaponry was repaid its generosity by getting shut down by the Kalifornia government two years ago.
Seems that Kalifornia passed enough draconian anti-gun laws that the gun store could no longer remain solvent. The Liberals hailed the closure, of course.
Nevermind that the LAPD's butt would have been swiss cheese had it not been for the arsenal at that "oh so horrible" gun store in Hollywood...
Yes, just saw the scene where the cops go to get AR-15s. "I can't believe they let people buy things like this". "Good credit, 10 day waiting period, no criminal record ....."
I would say it was damn good for the good guys there *was* a well stocked gun store near by.
Ronnie I saw the movie
That piece of revisionalist crap I ever saw I saw whole thing DOWN LIVE ON LOCAL TV
HELLO
Hey Rupe love the revisionalist story dude
PLEASE everybody know that the gun man were arm to TILT
If you don't know how to shoot well, an AR-15 is a better choice than a deer rifle.
made tapes of the news footage and watched them for refreshing my memory.
A couple of years ago, I worked on a pilot for Fox, and had some dealings with some of their "executives". One of their favorites was a gal whose claim to fame was that she'd staged news coverage for another network. Most of the rest of the group was cut from the same mold. I kept wondering if Rupert actually knew these people were working for him. From the looks of the "slant" on "44 minutes", they're still there.
Although I watched the incident live while listening to the LAPD radio system at the same time, I didn't tape the coverage, so I have only memory to rely on. I'd be interested in your observations about the most obvious disparities you spotted.
What stood out to me was primarily the sort of time distortions that happen in the course of trying to turn a real-life event into a dramatic piece, and they involved:
1. The number of units on scene when the duo first exited was much lower than depicted.
2. The firefight at the bank, and at the end, played-out far faster than depicted, with the time between SWAT crashing the car and Emil going down being just seconds.
3. SWAT was there sooner than depicted.
4. Instead of being a whiney ditz, the RTO in question did one of the most amazing dispatching jobs in history, at times actually taking command to try to bring order to the chaos. There were actually several RTO's involved, and a number of them were recongnized for their performance
5. The B&B guns were actually were scene sooner and some were employed.
And finally: Probably the greatest distortion was inadvertent and due to the problems that come from just trying to frame an interesting shot. In the course of doing so, the distances involved were thrown off. These guys were in what would be a perfect defensive position, with clear fields of fire and a lot of open space with little or no cover. The combination of the loss of that perspective and the dimishment of intensity caused by the time-stretching involved really watered-down just how intense an experience it was. Almost all the second-guessing messages on this thread are based on the fictional depiction, and most of them would not have been posted had their authors lived through the actual experience.
I lived only a few miles south at the time of the North Hollywood bank robbery, and had been a customer of B&B Sales on several occasions.
They did loan the police a few AR-15s (Bushmaster clones, I think) as well as a .458 Remington Magnum.
In combat you secure the Area first while treating your wounded in order to SURVIVE and save the Lives of your "Friendlies."
...The ones with the AK-47's that dark morning of the North Hollywood Bank Shootout were not "Friendlies" and there were more Enemy possibly lurking around out there ..and THIS WAS COMBAT.
...Thus the delay in getting Medical Aid to a wounded Shooter. (Apparently Atty. STEPHAN YAGMAN didn't care about any LAPD "Friendlies" ...as he quickly sued them instead)
...The morning after the Bank Shootout then KCBS-TV (Now KTLA-TV) Reporter BILL SMITH interviewed a witness, appearing on TV as a shadow only, who saw 2 others outside helping the Shooters put on with their protective gear just before the Robbery. At least one Shooter helper was a woman.
...No follow thru came on this TV interview from the Media or from LAPD Homicide Investigators.
NEVER FORGET
1) The Shootout Scenes we saw in what I thought was a well told and scarey TV Story in '44 MINUTES,' as incomplete as it was, were not filmed on the Story's actual Shootout locations.
2) The Actual Shootout Scene on Laural Canyon Blvd had the Shooters controlling everything from the Bank of America's North Parking Lot ...holding the LAPD at bay in a hail of automatic weapons fire ...across the Blvd and a neighborhood side street, thus no Police Car ramming attempts were ever made.
3) L.A.'s Police "Scanner Lady" MARY LOU HOLTE was the on who called in the "Shots Fired" Shootout Call into L.A.'s Media, which brought in the TV Helicopters.
4) The Dentist across the street from the Bank was a true hero who braved withering AK-47 Fire to come down from his 2nd story office to rescue wounded LAPD Officers cringing at the botton of exposed stairway. (Not depicted in '44 MINUTES') This Dentist is a real sweetheart of a man.
I lived only a few miles south at the time of the North Hollywood bank robbery, and had been a customer of B&B Sales on several occasions.
Then I'm sure you noticed that a significant number of their customers were police officers... which makes the gratuitousness of the "I can't believe they sell these to just anybody" line even more obvious, huh?
I immediately thought, "well, there's our sermon for the evening".
Darn near everybody in the old 15th division was in B&B at one time or another.
Cops loved B&B Sales. Several of the guys that worked there part-time were LAPD or LASO. Same went for the Orange County location, which I think was the better store.
B&B Sales was magnificent. The customer service wasn't so hot, but it depended on which guy you got assigned in the 'Take A Number' drill.
In the mid to late 1980s, B&B was like a wonderland
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They dont use rifled barrels and slugs. Why didnt someone score a HS with a Beretta?
