HGH naked?

[SUST-MAN]

If i did a cycle WITHOUT steroids.....and only used 6iu of HGH.....would there be any benefit?

Would i still get the body fat % decrease?

And lean muscle mass?

 

[Zyglamail]

yes and yes, but it would be very slow. GH use invariably slows IGF-1 release many AAS increase IGF-1 and why the two work so well together. As an aside, before you jump on 6IU, I hope you take my advice and work up to that dose or you may find yourself quiting the GH cycle long before 3 months are up.

 

[SUST-MAN]

i am taking your advise 100%!!!!!!!!!

I will not be doing 5days on \ 2 of.....i'd rather do it all 7 days.

I will do 2iu per day for 1 month....the 3iu per day the next month.....see how it goes.....then do 4.5 iu per day

SOUND GOOD?

 

[PursuitOfShredded]

What little bit I've read..

I don't think 2iu will be enough, as our bodies naturally produce 1 - 1.5 iu per day from what little bit I've read....if you're trying to be conservative, maybe 3 is enough to start with and 6 days on, 1 off...........my .02 cents!

 

[SUST-MAN]

after all my research, i have come to the conclusion that there is absolutly NO reason to take any days off.....other than saving your wallet

Why do you think that 6 on 1 off is better than 7 days on?

 

[PursuitOfShredded]

Haven't read much

but, it seemed you are trying to be conservative (a good thing) and since I suggested increasing your projected dose, I figured you may want to take a day off......Huck and Zyg can probably provide the best insight to this.

 

[Lumberg]

Does injecting HGH inhibit your natural production?

 

[Zyglamail]

Does injecting HGH inhibit your natural production?

I beleive it does, but some will argue otherwise. Just like with many hormones there are various feedback mechinsisms. GH itself, IGF-1 etc.

 

[C-Steele]

Re: What little bit I've read..

i think it is less than .5 per day naturally... also... depending on what you are looking to do... 2 to 3 iu a day is a good start for the first month. You won't see anything for a while... your hands might hurt or tingle...

After about 3 months, you can notice good fat loss... ease up a little more on the diet and still stay ripped up... and you probably will sleep like a baby.

just my .03

Steele

I don't think 2iu will be enough, as our bodies naturally produce 1 - 1.5 iu per day from what little bit I've read....if you're trying to be conservative, maybe 3 is enough to start with and 6 days on, 1 off...........my .02 cents!

 

[PursuitOfShredded]

C-steele,

you're probably right. I searched a little on PUBMed right now, but could not find a study to say what natural production is...I did however, find the study on GH and test enanthate....they don't say, unless I missed it, how much enanthate was given. They do say GH was 20 microg/kg BW....anyone know how to convert that?!

Here's the study:

J Clin Endocrinol Metab 2001 Aug;86(8):3604-10 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut


Effects of GH and/or sex steroid administration on abdominal subcutaneous and visceral fat in healthy aged women and men.

Munzer T, Harman SM, Hees P, Shapiro E, Christmas C, Bellantoni MF, Stevens TE, O'Connor KG, Pabst KM, St Clair C, Sorkin JD, Blackman MR.

Endocrine Section, Laboratory of Clinical Investigation, Intramural Research Program, National Institute on Aging, National Institutes of Health, Baltimore, Maryland 21224, USA.

Aging is associated with reduced GH, IGF-I, and sex steroid axis activity and with increased abdominal fat. We employed a randomized, double-masked, placebo-controlled, noncross-over design to study the effects of 6 months of administration of GH alone (20 microg/kg BW), sex hormone alone (hormone replacement therapy in women, testosterone enanthate in men), or GH + sex hormone on total abdominal area, abdominal sc fat, and visceral fat in 110 healthy women (n = 46) and men (n = 64), 65-88 yr old (mean, 72 yr). GH administration increased IGF-I levels in women (P = 0.05) and men (P = 0.0001), with the increment in IGF-I levels being higher in men (P = 0.05). Sex steroid administration increased levels of estrogen and testosterone in women and men, respectively (P = 0.05). In women, neither GH, hormone replacement therapy, nor GH + hormone replacement therapy altered total abdominal area, sc fat, or visceral fat significantly. In contrast, in men, administration of GH and GH + testosterone enanthate decreased total abdominal area by 3.9% and 3.8%, respectively, within group and vs. placebo (P = 0.05). Within-group comparisons revealed that sc fat decreased by 10% (P = 0.01) after GH, and by 14% (P = 0.0005) after GH + testosterone enanthate. Compared with placebo, sc fat decreased by 14% (P = 0.05) after GH, by 7% (P = 0.05) after testosterone enanthate, and by 16% (P = 0.0005) after GH + testosterone enanthate. Compared with placebo, visceral fat did not decrease significantly after administration of GH, testosterone enanthate, or GH + testosterone enanthate. These data suggest that in healthy older individuals, GH and/or sex hormone administration elicits a sexually dimorphic response on sc abdominal fat. The generally proportionate reductions we observed in sc and visceral fat, after 6 months of GH administration in healthy aged men, contrast with the disproportionate reduction of visceral fat reported after a similar period of GH treatment of nonelderly GH deficient men and women. Whether longer term administration of GH or testosterone enanthate, alone or in combination, will reduce abdominal fat distribution-related cardiovascular risk in healthy older men remains to be elucidated.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Randomized Controlled Trial

PMID: 11502785 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Looks like 6 months is a good low-dose time period.
POShredded

 

[Zyglamail]

Well, 1 mg is 1000mcg and 1lb is 2.2 kilos. So if your 220 thats 100 kilo's x 20mcg = 2000mcg's or 2mg. Knowing that an 18IU vial makes 1cc and 2mg is 1/3 of a 6mg(18IU) vial we can conclude that 1/3 of a 1cc slin dart will be 33.3333 units divide that by ~5.5 units per IU and you get a dose of approx 6IU of serostim.

 

[DrJMW]

If i did a cycle WITHOUT steroids.....and only used 6iu of HGH.....would there be any benefit?

Would i still get the body fat % decrease?

And lean muscle mass?

The anabolic effects of HGH (hyperplasia, not hypertrophy) are increased in the presence of insulin, but the anabolic effects of AAS (hypertrophy) are much greater. As I have said many times, HGH is great for fat loss. Low carb dieting along with HGH is a potent combination to lose fat.

 

[PursuitOfShredded]

Re: Re: HGH naked?

The anabolic effects of HGH (hyperplasia, not hypertrophy) are increased in the presence of insulin, but the anabolic effects of AAS (hypertrophy) are much greater. As I have said many times, HGH is great for fat loss. Low carb dieting along with HGH is a potent combination to lose fat.

This is correct......HGH stimulates the fat cells to let go of their energy. I also found that GH is secreted when blood glucose is low!

As for resting levels (Zyg, can you convert this?!...sorry terrible at math!)......two different Exercise Physiology texts I have show on a graph that resting GH levels to be about 1 ng/ml (yes, ng, Both texts show that).

Looks as if natural growth hormone secretion is actually Less in trained subjects during exercise. And, both trained and untrained individuals show a substantial linear increase in GH production as exercise intensity increases.

 

[PursuitOfShredded]

Bump

for more on this. Mods/Vets, what are your feelings on first HGH cycle. What should first doses be, how long, when do you increase, what should the total cycle length be?

Thanks!

 

[Zyglamail]

Re: Bump

for more on this. Mods/Vets, what are your feelings on first HGH cycle. What should first doses be, how long, when do you increase, what should the total cycle length be?

Thanks!

Havent been able to do the math yet, actually had to work while at work today. GH is not so much a dose dependant hormone. I got the same sides on 4IU that I did on 6IU. After having experienced the sides myself I would recommend a guy start at 2IU and run it for a month to see how things go. If sides occure but are tolerable stay at that dose and see if they subside. If they subside then consider upping it by an IU or two and monitor it again for another 4 weeks. I dont really see a point of going over 5-6IU myself, especially if not on a cycle.

 

[ironmaster]

Here are some facts:

Growth hormone (GH) is a 191-amino acid protein or peptide that's naturally released from the pituitary gland. GH, much like Testosterone, is released in a pulsatile or episodic manner. The GH pulse occurs every 2-3 hours so each and every day we get about 8-12 big doses of all-natural growth hormone (Hartman et al 1991). The sum of these GH peaks amounts to about 0.5 mg of GH produced per day.

GH alone is useless at increasing muscle mass while a combination of GH and IGF-1 may be effective if protein anabolism and increased contractile protein is the goal (Kupfer 1993, Snyder 1988).

So what about GH and fat mass? Most studies have shown modest decreases in body fat and skinfold measures with GH treatment (Jorgensen 1989, Salomon F, Tagliaferri 1998). Decreases in fat mass of about 16% and decreases in thigh adipose mass of about 7% have been reported. Testosterone was shown to decrease fat mass by 5% and 6% (Anawalt 1999, Blackman 1999). In one of the same studies, GH was also administered and decreased fat mass by 12%.

The best stack, then, would be GH, insulin (to counter desensitivity), test, and an oral like dbol (to stimulate IGF-1 release).

Exogenous GH does surpress natural production for a matter of several hours.

Even 2 iu's more than doubles natural GH production if taken well before bedtime....when 70% of natural release occurs.

Sust-Man, Pursuit.......if you go to the search function here and enter "GH" and "ironmaster" in the fields, you will get well over 100 informative posts on GH supplementation. Personally, I love the stuff.

 

[ironmaster]

Yes, winny works......needs a first pass through the liver to stimulate IGF-1, so drink it. Are you thinking ALA as an insulin alternative?

 

[PursuitOfShredded]

Thanks IRON and ZYG

very nice, both of you! Iron, from the looks of your avatar, you know what you're talking about! Zyg, I'm not platinum, but I'm sure you're ripped, too.....especially since you like FINA!...I'd like to use it, but, I want to do a triathlon and am convinced I'll lose my wind!

What about?

GH: 2 IU/day
EQ: 400/week
ALA: 600 mg/meal (I don't know how to use insulin!)
Test: 300/week

to get ripped and compete in Tris?

 

[SUST-MAN]

iron and zyg are fuckin awesome...

sk* is great too!

 

[Sassy69]

I've heard people say to load glucosamine or MSM to help deal w/ the wrist joint pain you get at higher doses (e.g. 6 iu/day). The pain supposedly lasts for a couple of weeks, then you are home free.

IronMaster -- is the above true? I've only heard stories....

 

[ironmaster]

Sassy, girl where you been? I need an update on your career. You boys will be seeing Sassy in the mags and on the TV....absolutely first rate bb'er.
I'm sure those products would help the wrist pain.......only a few get this, though. Do you? I always pump in the deca for any kind of joint pain, but then I have more options than a lady does in the gear department.
You might try DMSO rubbed into the problem areas....cover with neo wrap. This is the # one item for race horses with sore joints.
You won't like the smell, but it works.

 

[SUST-MAN]

i love using horse steroids and horse remedies to fix myself...

This is the funniest part of AS

 

[Zyglamail]

Re: Thanks IRON and ZYG

very nice, both of you! Iron, from the looks of your avatar, you know what you're talking about! Zyg, I'm not platinum, but I'm sure you're ripped, too.....especially since you like FINA

Im a decent sized guy, but Im not ripped, been to busy to concentrate on a proper diet. Ironmaster though, now that man should be an inspiration to us all, I only hope I look that good at his age.

 

[SUST-MAN]

iron looks like a god

 

[DrJMW]

Here are some facts:

Growth hormone (GH) is a 191-amino acid protein or peptide that's naturally released from the pituitary gland. GH, much like Testosterone, is released in a pulsatile or episodic manner. The GH pulse occurs every 2-3 hours so each and every day we get about 8-12 big doses of all-natural growth hormone (Hartman et al 1991). The sum of these GH peaks amounts to about 0.5 mg of GH produced per day.

GH alone is useless at increasing muscle mass while a combination of GH and IGF-1 may be effective if protein anabolism and increased contractile protein is the goal (Kupfer 1993, Snyder 1988).

So what about GH and fat mass? Most studies have shown modest decreases in body fat and skinfold measures with GH treatment (Jorgensen 1989, Salomon F, Tagliaferri 1998). Decreases in fat mass of about 16% and decreases in thigh adipose mass of about 7% have been reported. Testosterone was shown to decrease fat mass by 5% and 6% (Anawalt 1999, Blackman 1999). In one of the same studies, GH was also administered and decreased fat mass by 12%.

The best stack, then, would be GH, insulin (to counter desensitivity), test, and an oral like dbol (to stimulate IGF-1 release).

This is a great summary but I beg to differ. The site of insulin resistance is at the peripheral tissues. Adding Insulin will not improve insulin sensitivity--a drug like Glucophage will. IGF-1 is important in an anabolic-desired situation, not so much in a fat loss situation. There is enough IGF-1 released to maintain muscle mass without the AAS (test or Dianabol).

The typical athlete or geentically gifted individual has low, detectable HGH and IGF-1 levels. The half-life of HGH is 20 minutes anyway; this is why testing for actual HGH levels is foolish. The half-life of IGF-1 is also low because, in these, individuals, they have high levels of binding proteins (IGFBP-2 and IGFBP-3) that allow usage of the IGF-1. High IGF-1 levels means that the body isn't using it.

For true anabolic effect, try stacking AAS with HGH and glucophage. High Protein, mod carb, low fat and heavy training. For someone with low BF%, this is a great stack. Most of the gains will be muscle.

 

[ironmaster]

Holy shit....now I have to argue with a doctor!!! These studies, along with anecdotal evidence from the pro's, along with my personal experience SEEM to support my statements.
The new generation of bodybuilders swear by a combination of Testosterone, GH, IGF-1, Insulin, and Thyroid drugs. There is quite a bit of indirect evidence suggesting that, in theory, there may be a synergistic response to a polypharmacy of this type. See these reports: Mani Maran 2000, Painson 2000, Demling 1999, Grinspoon 1998 and 1999, Juul 1998, Keenan 1996.
Back to personal experience.....and I have 3 decades in the gym. Glucophage is not comparable to actually supplementing insulin in terms of gains. Insulin is very anabolic on it's own, amd with GH and steroids, it's killer. I have used both, so this isn't a guess.
Kupfer's study, mentioned above showed greater protein synthesis and increased lean muscle mass when IGF-1 was supplemented with GH. Since obtaining lab grade, properly handled IGF is next to impossible for the layman.....there is no harm in using an oral steroid like dbol which has been shown in many studies to increase IGF-1 release on the first pass through the liver.
All that said, however, there is a real parcity of science involving GH as used by bodybuilders. What little there is often conflicts. Maybe DRJ will do the comprehensive study for us one day, he is one smart guy, and I sure won't try to claim superior knowledge.
Then again, my results speak for themselves, so I must be doing something right.
OK, doc....be gentle here....no proctology exam today please.

 

[SUST-MAN]

yes.....i trust IRON just by his pics.....more than some scrawny doctor in a lab coat experimenting on rats.