help on how to work in cutting cycle

[bullcocky]

I am running testE (shanghia) at 500mg & deca (Zencall) at 300mg ew, & liquidex at .5mg eod. I have been bulking since late July and plan on continuing this cycle until the end of Oct.

Nov, Dec, Jan, & Feb is going to be a strict diet and tons of cardio. I want to get shredded for spring break. During the cutting months, I plan on running either primo or eq (still deciding) along w/ 50mg winny eod. If I have the extra $, I will throw in some var.

My question is how do I come off the test and work into the other components without having a drastic loss of muscle, strength, and sex drive. I do not want to crash as I switch compounds.

1.) Would I tapper off the test, lowering the dosage to 250mg ew toward Oct?

2.) or.......would I use a post cycle therapy (clomid) during the beginning of the cutting cycle?

...........any help on this and I will send karma.....thanks guys. This bulking cycle is going real well; strength is up majority and muscles are getting fuller and fuller by the day. The diet is tough though; it is getting harder and harder to work in the meals. Some days I miss meals and shakes but the gains are still amazing. I gained 15lbs in the first month (some of course is water). I took some pics yesterday, you can see them in my gallery. I have more fat than I want right now from my diet so I wore a shirt. My bis look kind of small in the front shot cause I just broke em down in the gym before the pic was taken.

 

[Apexx]

1st, tapering the test doesn't work. You can inject a gram or 250mg, it's still going to got through your body in the exact same amount of time.

2nd, you're basically going to be on one big 7 month cycle. I wouldn't recommend that unless you're planning stepping on stage in March, but it's your body. Anyway,
there's no sense in starting pct if your still going to be on. The primo and winny aren't as hard on your own nat test, but they will still hinder it. Definitely get some HCG and run that throughout along with the lidiquex. You could also add some proviron to keep from crashing.

You're going to lose some size and strength, but doing this will minimize the damage.
Also, I don't know how long you plan on running the winny and var, if it's winny tabs, I don't think your liver will appreciate running two orals back to back. Do 6wks winny, 4wks off then 6wks of the var

just my opinion, hope it helps.

 

[bullcocky]

I am not going to compete, but I want to be cut to the max when spring break & summer comes. I will be using the injectible winny, I don't care for the tabs. More than likely, I will be leaving the var out due to the price of it. I ruled primo out due to the price and availability. I will be running eq instead.

Is there anything that could take the place of HCG? It is just hard for me to find as opposed to most substitutes. I will check on the proviron. I have used it before and loved it.

 

[Apexx]

if you're going to be "on" for that long than HCG is a must. If not you're gonna have trouble gettin' your boys in proper working order when you're done.

I don't know of any substitutes for it, but I'll do some digging and see what I come up with. I'll let you know what I come up with.

BTW, how do you plan on running the eq & winny

 

[bullcocky]

I am checking on the hcg right now. I am pretty sure it is available for me. how often and at what dose should the hcg be at? I will start it as soon as it arrives.

I plan on using 400mg eq ew (starting nov.) until the end of feb. I will start the winny at 50mg eod in mid jan, giving me the recommended 6 weeks; I will leave the var out.

Do you have a better setup on it that would be bore effective? I have heard that under 500mg of eq is a waste, but I see no problem w/ 400mg. What is your opinion on this?

 

[Apexx]

I am checking on the hcg right now. I am pretty sure it is available for me. how often and at what dose should the hcg be at? I will start it as soon as it arrives.

I plan on using 400mg eq ew (starting nov.) until the end of feb. I will start the winny at 50mg eod in mid jan, giving me the recommended 6 weeks; I will leave the var out.

Do you have a better setup on it that would be bore effective? I have heard that under 500mg of eq is a waste, but I see no problem w/ 400mg. What is your opinion on this?

check out the pct sticky. There are a few different trains of thought on how to run it, but at least this will give a good handle on at least one way. BTW, I follow what the post says about hcg and have never had any problems. You might want to get some nolv to run with it though.....just as a precautionary measure.
As far as the eq is concerned, my last cycle was almost 3 mths ago which consisted of 100mg eod of prop and 400mg/wk of eq along with a dbol kickstart. It was my 1st time using eq, so I kept it at 400mg just to see how I would react. If I had it to do over again, I would definitley bump it up to 600mg/wk.

 

[Izzman]

Hey bro, congratulations on the gains, looking thick, mean and....hairy! Lol, just messing with you. Anyhow in all seriousness, I would run PCT right after your bulker for atleast and maintain for atleast 1-2 months time to let your body adjust or else the muscle you worked so hard for these last passing months will dissipate right before your eyes. Plus you still have plenty of time to cut if you start around Jan-Febish, thats still alot earlier than when most start and you have a good 3-4 months headstart before spring. My 2 cents.

 

[bullcocky]

thanks, that pic was taken in jan 2003. I was bloated with water on test cyp. The pics with the black sleeveless shirt was taken yesterday.

my bf is @ around 20%. I will need at least 3 month to cut. I am not going to be off for two months, I might as well stay on and worry about pct in march. I will run eq @ 600mg ew nov,dec,jan,& feb.; winny will start in mid jan.

There has got to be something that can be done to help with crashing off the test and switching to EQ only. I will be starting HCG here soon; I'm about to get some.

WHAT IS A GOOD DOSAGE OF HCG WEEKLY? WOULD (3)5000iu kits LAST UNTIL OCT, AT A DECENT DOSAGE?.... OR WOULD I NEED MORE?...... ANY HELP IS APPRECIATED. KARMA TO ALL!!!

IF ANYBODY HAS ANY ADVICE FROM EXPERIENCE, PLEASE SHARE YOUR KNOWLEDGE...THANKS GUYS!!!

 

[DIVISION]

My question is how do I come off the test and work into the other components without having a drastic loss of muscle, strength, and sex drive. I do not want to crash as I switch compounds.

1.) Would I tapper off the test, lowering the dosage to 250mg ew toward Oct?

2.) or.......would I use a post cycle therapy (clomid) during the beginning of the cutting cycle?

@ Bullcocky..

You would be best served by tapering down the Test to a basic maintenance level while you bridge over to your cutting cycle. Use the clomid, HCG as part of your bridge and throw in some Winny or Halotestin to retain as much LBM as you can while you shift in to your cutter. The length of your bridge all depends on you, what you think you can afford and how much time you want between the bulker and the cutter.......

Hope this helps.

DIV

 

[bullcocky]

@ Bullcocky..

You would be best served by tapering down the Test to a basic maintenance level while you bridge over to your cutting cycle. Use the clomid, HCG as part of your bridge and throw in some Winny or Halotestin to retain as much LBM as you can while you shift in to your cutter. The length of your bridge all depends on you, what you think you can afford and how much time you want between the bulker and the cutter.......

Hope this helps.

DIV

Thanks for the help. I have read that lowering the test dose by half doesn't make any difference; but is there truth to this?

are you saying that when I start the 600mg of eq, I also need to continue the hcg and use clomid at the start of cut cycle? or are you saying that I must give a period of time between the bulk and cut cycle. I would prefer to say on. I have had previous post that say I should wait a few months before cutting but I disagree. what do you think guys?

 

[DIVISION]

Thanks for the help. I have read that lowering the test dose by half doesn't make any difference; but is there truth to this?

are you saying that when I start the 600mg of eq, I also need to continue the hcg and use clomid at the start of cut cycle? or are you saying that I must give a period of time between the bulk and cut cycle. I would prefer to say on. I have had previous post that say I should wait a few months before cutting but I disagree. what do you think guys?

Of course it will make a difference......that's why you need to taper it down to half or 1/3 while you bridge to your cutter.

Yes, I would continue use of the Clomid/HCG while you work in to your cutter. You don't need to have 3 months persay between your bulker and cutter, IF YOU BRIDGE!!!! The purpose of a bridge is to keep maintenance test levels intact while you shift from your bulker to your cutter. I would recommend at least a ONE MONTH bridge......no less between the two cycles. Ideally you want a 45-60 day bridge between a bulker and a cutter, but you may get by with 30 days if you play your cards right and your diet is on point. It on you Bullcocky......any more questions?

DIV

 

[Apexx]

Tapering will help your body acclimate to the lower test as far as your stength is concerned, but does nothing for your natural test levels......which is what I thought your question was. Bridging is just staying on at lower doses. IMO if you're gonna stay on, you might as well be taking advantage of it.

I was under the impression that you wanted to get stop using the test in favor of the other compounds. If that's not the case, then 250mg/wk of test-e would keep you from crashing and it's inexpensive. Also, there wouldn't be much bloat at that dose, so you could still gauge your cutting pretty easily. I would still run the HCG throughout.

 

[bullcocky]

I am considering stay on 250mgs of testE during the cutting phase unless it is going to hinder my cutting. This would more than likely help with my strength and boost my energy during these months. At the completion of the cycle (end of Feb.) I can start pct two weeks from the last shot of test. I will stay on hcg throughout the rest of the cycle along with .5mg liquidex eod.

This will be the layout starting mid oct. (PLEASE CRITIQUE)

eq 600mg ew / weeks 1-19
testE 250mg ew / weeks 1-19
winny 50mg eod / weeks 13-19
hcg - from now though until the end of Feb.
liquidex .5mg eod - from now though until the end of Feb.
liquid clomid pct starting two weeks after week 19

If anything should be changed, please give me some feedback. and as always....karma to all. I know this is a super long cycle, which is criticized by most people, but if you're going to be on......my opinion is BE ON. Long term cycles are the most effective in my opinion. I've had better results with long cycles; although this is by far the longest. I will post pics once a month and keep everybody posted on my progress.

I got my winny now and I plan on starting it mid Jan. I got Tonix-Vet, a new brand that is micronized in water. It is suspended really well and does not look like the average winny. It is almost clear looking. When it sits all of the stanozolol falls to the bottom of the bottle. The other brand I have is PharmaGene. It looks like the average wistrol brands. It is made in Albany, NY. You can see all the different bottles by going to: http://www.intense-training.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15624&highlight=pharmagene .They aren't Zambons, but who wants to order internationally and pay that kind of dough for the shit???

 

[Apexx]

I am considering stay on 250mgs of testE during the cutting phase unless it is going to hinder my cutting. This would more than likely help with my strength and boost my energy during these months. At the completion of the cycle (end of Feb.) I can start pct two weeks from the last shot of test. I will stay on hcg throughout the rest of the cycle along with .5mg liquidex eod.

This will be the layout starting mid oct. (PLEASE CRITIQUE)

eq 600mg ew / weeks 1-19
testE 250mg ew / weeks 1-19
winny 50mg eod / weeks 13-19
hcg - from now though until the end of Feb.
liquidex .5mg eod - from now though until the end of Feb.
liquid clomid pct starting two weeks after week 19


If anything should be changed, please give me some feedback. and as always....karma to all. I know this is a super long cycle, which is criticized by most people, but if you're going to be on......my opinion is BE ON. Long term cycles are the most effective in my opinion. I've had better results with long cycles; although this is by far the longest. I will post pics once a month and keep everybody posted on my progress.

I got my winny now and I plan on starting it mid Jan. I got Tonix-Vet, a new brand that is micronized in water. It is suspended really well and does not look like the average winny. It is almost clear looking. When it sits all of the stanozolol falls to the bottom of the bottle. The other brand I have is PharmaGene. It looks like the average wistrol brands. It is made in Albany, NY. You can see all the different bottles by going to: http://www.intense-training.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15624&highlight=pharmagene .They aren't Zambons, but who wants to order internationally and pay that kind of dough for the shit???

Looks good to me. As long as your diet is in check your last two months of this cycle are going to be NICE.

 

[bullcocky]

Looks good to me. As long as your diet is in check your last two months of this cycle are going to be NICE.

I was thinking chicken, fish, sweet potatoes, mixed veggies, wheat bread, oatmeal, eggs, some fruit, lite protein powder, multi-vitamin & 1g vit.C ed. The last two months will probably be just fish and veggies, certain low glycemic carbs, tons of cardio, sauna, & water.

I will more than likely look up a good cutting diet. If you guys have any good cutting diet links.....pass it on...thanks

 

[bullcocky]

I was reading a FAQ page about HCG which said that the average dose is 500iu ed. That sound pretty extreme. How much are you guys using ew and when are you taking it?

Here is the link to the profile: http://www.mesomorphosis.com/steroid-profiles/human-chorionic-gonadotropin.htm