HCG - Who is right?

[Harleymarleybone]

I know there is a PCT board, but la lot more people read this one. Need some advice. I know, not another PCT question!!!

Jenetic's protocol overlaps HCG with Nolva, Comid, but Fat Sumo's sticky says since HCG is suppressive of HPTA, taking Clomid, Nolva with it is a waste. So who is right? Any ideas?

Next time I am running HCG during my cycle, but this time, I finished it (two weeks ago), and started HCG. Should I finish up the HCG, and then start the Nolva, Clomid, or start them now along with it?

 

[Ulter]

What you used for your cycle is one thing that is important when considering how to do PCT. If you use Deca you don't want to use Nolva. Nolva is a poor choice in any circumstance but may actually work against you if you used Deca.
Finish your HCG with AIFM and when you're done start clomid.

 

[solidspine]

However if you did not use Deca, and you are doing HCG

Take the Nolvedex with the HCG so you don’t get gyno from the HCG

AIFM will work fine too.


Do not do the Clomid and HCG at the same time, actually if you do one, it may be over kill to do both.

If you have both then go ahead and do both, just not at the same time.

 

[Harleymarleybone]

However if you did not use Deca, and you are doing HCG

Take the Nolvedex with the HCG so you don’t get gyno from the HCG

AIFM will work fine too.


Do not do the Clomid and HCG at the same time, actually if you do one, it may be over kill to do both.

If you have both then go ahead and do both, just not at the same time.

I did 12 weeks 500 cyp, 500 EQ (my 1st cycle). It's been two weeks since my last injection. Okay, so I am thinking I'll run the 10,000iu's of HCG over two weeks, and at the same do 25 Mg of Nolva every day for 4 weeks. Sound solid?

Next time I'll try the AIFM, sorry Ulter.

 

[Makavelli]

WTF? I always use Nolva, clomid, and HCG together. I recover nicely even after a cycle where I used tren.

 

[dline]

I agree with harley bone but, what i do know is that next time, no Arimidex. I'm gonna use AIFM @ 2 pumps a day for the entire cycle.The following two weeks after the cycle @ 4 pumps a day (if gyno prone) otherwise, stay @ 2 pumps a day, right?

I read another post that frontloading Clomid can really mess with your emotions. Also i do know the more you use and the longer you're on the easier it is to have your emotions mess around with you. So dont frontload just use the same amount throughout?

HCG can be used mid cycle to help with atrophied testicles on longer cycle but should be used after said cycle. Seems like standard protocol is 1000i.u.'s M+W+F for 2 wks.


Hypothetical Cycle:

Wk 1 - 10 Test Prop @ 500mg/Wk
Wk 5 - 11 Winny @ 50mg ED

PCT ?

 

[Ulter]

Mak you can mix them all together. It's just more effective to let clomid act on it's own.
dline You're right. It's silly to front load clomid. You're not going to get any better results while increasing the chance of sides.

 

[Makavelli]

Mak you can mix them all together. It's just more effective to let clomid act on it's own.
dline You're right. It's silly to front load clomid. You're not going to get any better results while increasing the chance of sides.

Yeah I mainly just keep it in there for cholesterol reasons, along with preventing gyno from the HCG.

 

[Hylander]

...so I am thinking I'll run the 10,000iu's of HCG over two weeks, and at the same do 25 Mg of Nolva every day for 4 weeks. Sound solid?

Next time I'll try the AIFM, sorry Ulter.

NO!

That's way too much HCG w/in a 2wk period.
Your looking at over 713 iu ED...that's nuts IMO.

FYI...HCG is not always needed on a cycle depending on length
and also on atrophy.Too much HCG is not better,not at all.

Not preching....BUT...
You really should have had this all planned out before you
even started your cycle bro,your in PCT and planning it out
now...not a good way to recover quickly,good luck.

 

[dline]

so basically for the Test Prop and Winny cycle run the AIFM thru and then 2+wks
HCG wk 11 - 13? 1000i.u.'s M+W+F
Clomid wk _ - _? 50mg ED

 

[lartinos]

I like nolva, don't care for clomid

 

[Harleymarleybone]

NO!

That's way too much HCG w/in a 2wk period.
Your looking at over 713 iu ED...that's nuts IMO.

FYI...HCG is not always needed on a cycle depending on length
and also on atrophy.Too much HCG is not better,not at all.

Not preching....BUT...
You really should have had this all planned out before you
even started your cycle bro,your in PCT and planning it out
now...not a good way to recover quickly,good luck.

I had it planned out - I was going to use Jenetic's protocol (his sticky on the PCT board), but then I read a lot more and began to question it. There is lots of contradictory information about PCT, especially about whether to run Nolva/Clomid during HCG or after - as well as the amounts. Do you think 1000iu's MWF is better? - That's Jenetic's advise. I ran a longish cycle - 12 weeks, test/ EQ. Testicle began to ache week 14. Thought I better start the HCG to stop my nots from imploding.

 

[Hylander]

I had it planned out - I was going to use Jenetic's protocol (his sticky on the PCT board), but then I read a lot more and began to question it. There is lots of contradictory information about PCT, especially about whether to run Nolva/Clomid during HCG or after - as well as the amounts. Do you think 1000iu's MWF is better? - That's Jenetic's advise. I ran a longish cycle - 12 weeks, test/ EQ. Testicle began to ache week 14. Thought I better start the HCG to stop my nots from imploding.

What doses have you been taking with the HCG?? ..you said you started in your 1st post.Yes,nolva should be taken with the HCG,and yes you can take it now.So you know...PCT is not run for a certain duration,run it until you come back fully.That could vary from person to person,situation to situaiton.

I understand on the advice,there is alot to sort through out there,especially for PCT.I run long cycles,20+wks in a few cases.BUT...I take precaution with that type of length,no..I dont condone it either.I would run HCG during my cycle,every 6-7 wks for 250iu ED for 20 days or so,using up a 5000iu amp.Ive learned what my boys like and what they need to stay nice and plump,which aids in recovery time.

I would break it down to 500iu EOD if you dont want to run 250iu ED. Personally,I dont think 12wks is long,and sometimes HCG is not always needed in many cases,not that you dont...only you can tell with that duration cycle,and aching is not always a good thing.Im also a firm believer that HCG can easily be over abused,which would hurt you on ever coming back.

 

[petalpusher]

Excellent thread. I was contemplating the same question myself. I did clomid and hcg together last time, and like Mak, I recovered nicely.

 

[Harleymarleybone]

What doses have you been taking with the HCG?? ..you said you started in your 1st post.Yes,nolva should be taken with the HCG,and yes you can take it now.So you know...PCT is not run for a certain duration,run it until you come back fully.That could vary from person to person,situation to situaiton.

I understand on the advice,there is alot to sort through out there,especially for PCT.I run long cycles,20+wks in a few cases.BUT...I take precaution with that type of length,no..I dont condone it either.I would run HCG during my cycle,every 6-7 wks for 250iu ED for 20 days or so,using up a 5000iu amp.Ive learned what my boys like and what they need to stay nice and plump,which aids in recovery time.

I would break it down to 500iu EOD if you dont want to run 250iu ED. Personally,I dont think 12wks is long,and sometimes HCG is not always needed in many cases,not that you dont...only you can tell with that duration cycle,and aching is not always a good thing.Im also a firm believer that HCG can easily be over abused,which would hurt you on ever coming back.

I was using Jenetic's first protocol 1000iu's MWF. So far I've done two shots M and W 1000 each. Maybe, I'll taper it down to 500 EOD for about 3 weeks I know about the potential for over use and abuse, but I thought the problem was with higher doses over long periods of time. Next time, I'll definitely run it during the cycle - then no worries about when to do the anti- E's.

 

[basskiller]

I'm going to really screw with ya on this one.. The hell with the HCG for use only at the end of a cycle.
people are doing longer cycles with a combination of gear that shuts you down very hard.

Run the HCG about every third week 500iu's ed throughout the week or EOD depending.. This should keep you from the "hard shut down" that most are complaining about ..
Then use the nolva/clomid for PCT.

If your a 10 week ccyle it times out quite nicely

week 3 hcg
week 6 hcg
week 9 hcg




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[Harleymarleybone]

I'm going to really screw with ya on this one.. The hell with the HCG for use only at the end of a cycle.
people are doing longer cycles with a combination of gear that shuts you down very hard.

Run the HCG about every third week 500iu's ed throughout the week or EOD depending.. This should keep you from the "hard shut down" that most are complaining about ..
Then use the nolva/clomid for PCT.

If your a 10 week ccyle it times out quite nicely

week 3 hcg
week 6 hcg
week 9 hcg

QUOTE]

Seems reasonable. From now on HCG during cycle.

 

[Qphoton]

hey guys, i seems to me you "everybody" have his own experience with pct .....ulter ...IMO....i am still insisting on frontloading clomid ......

 

[Zircon]

for me...

500iu eod for last 3 weeks total of 3 weeks. I'd time it to stop the hcg 1 week before my pct starts.

Gyno prone, 20mkg nolva ed during hcg.

for pct...I dno. heavy cycle i'd run 20mg nolva 5-6 weeks and clomid 50mg ed somewhere in the middle. I prefer to keep low dose pct meds but for longer time.

for easy cycle I'd say 3-4 weeks 20/50 nolva clomid

 

[bigmodean]

What you used for your cycle is one thing that is important when considering how to do PCT. If you use Deca you don't want to use Nolva. Nolva is a poor choice in any circumstance but may actually work against you if you used Deca.
Finish your HCG with AIFM and when you're done start clomid.

Ulter,just to clarify,you suggested for my test e. 500mg/wk for 8 weeks cycle,14 days after last inject,do 10 days HCG @ 500iu's a day,and starting at the same time,14 days after last inject,run 50mg CLomid daily for 21 days,with AIFM,so I would be running HCG(10 days) and Clomid(21 days) at the same time?

 

[Zircon]

if so, why run hcg after cycle (during pct - and messing with lh suppression) when you can do it at the end of cycle (lh supressed anyway, so it deosnt' matter)?

I would think run hcg up until last week of cycle?

 

[Knights2]

hmm

 

[Ulter]

Ulter,just to clarify,you suggested for my test e. 500mg/wk for 8 weeks cycle,14 days after last inject,do 10 days HCG @ 500iu's a day,and starting at the same time,14 days after last inject,run 50mg CLomid daily for 21 days,with AIFM,so I would be running HCG(10 days) and Clomid(21 days) at the same time?

I love these, when they start out "just to clarify" and then ask so many question I'm get confused.

No. You can but that's not the best way.

Week 8 start 1000iu/day for ten days HCG - Because it's a test cycle you can cut this in half. In fact you can leave it out if you want.
Week 10 start clomid at 100mg/day
Week 11 start clomid at 50mg/day
Use AIFM through week 12

 

[Ulter]

hey guys, i seems to me you "everybody" have his own experience with pct .....ulter ...IMO....i am still insisting on frontloading clomid ......

Go ahead, knock yourself out. Have you read ANY of the clinical research on using clomid for hypoG? No one uses those high doses. It's a body building myth that you need more. There is nothing to suggest that you would in any clinical study done. Clomid has a half life of about 5 days so your blood levels are going to be stupid high if you front load it.

 

[Ulter]

so basically for the Test Prop and Winny cycle run the AIFM thru and then 2+wks
HCG wk 11 - 13? 1000i.u.'s M+W+F
Clomid wk _ - _? 50mg ED

See Above

 

[gettinripped]

in my research I've come to learn that there is no right or wrong. only trial and error will tell you what is right or wrong for you.

In looking for the right answer, you must look to someone you trust. For me that was Ulter. He gave the PCT regimen for my light test cycle and I recovered very well.

Here's a rundown:

1-14 Test E 250mg's ew
60 mg's ED var ran 8 weeks towards end of cycle.

Tried running HCG e3d during and developed itchy nips. Dropped the HCG during and opted to run it PCT only.

The day before my last injection I began running 500iu's HCG ED for 10 days straight. Upped the AIFM to 4 sprays ed. waited 2 weeks after last injection and began clomid, 100mg's ed for 1 week and 50mg's ed for 3 weeks(no sides, i was worried about them too). continued with AIFM @ 2 sprays per day throughout.

I had about 3 weeks with little or no motivation for the gym. Gained 25lbs. during cycle and kept 15-18lbs to this day. It's been since september, I am still using AIFM 1 spray every 2-3 days. I feel great, look great, been hitting the gym every day. Strength is about the only thing I've lost much of but still not too bad.

This was my 1st cycle and I loved it.

Currently planning my next for March of '07. It will consist of 700 mg's ew Primo. 125mg's ew Test. Might kickstart with some T-Bol or Var, I have both on hand.

 

[get456]

I personally like Anthony Roberts protocol, which is very similar to what Ulter suggests.

Its a combination of Nolvadex, Aromosin/AIFM, HCG and Vit E
http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/anthony-roberts/post-cycle-therapy.htm

 

[dline]

Good Look Ulter, i was just looking over 'Radars PCT Stickey' with the correct timing of HCG and Clomid. Thanks

 

[mm107]

great thread...gotta fav this one..

 

[Harleymarleybone]

in my research I've come to learn that there is no right or wrong. only trial and error will tell you what is right or wrong for you.

Yep. That seems to be the moral of the story. I'm going to do something like your protocol this time, and see how it goes. In theory it seems better to do the HCG during cycle and then let all the suppressive compounds clear out before doing the anti E's. I might do that next time, depending on how this goes. Thanks a lot for the input.

 

[gettinripped]

Yep. That seems to be the moral of the story. I'm going to do something like your protocol this time, and see how it goes. In theory it seems better to do the HCG during cycle and then let all the suppressive compounds clear out before doing the anti E's. I might do that next time, depending on how this goes. Thanks a lot for the input.

keep us posted.