Halotestin Questions

[NorCalBdyBldr]

Any thoughts on how toxic it would be to the liver to combine up to 20 mg/day of Anavar and 20 mg/day of Halotestin as part of a cutting cycle? What if the Halotestin was used two weeks on/2 off, etc.? I would also be using clenbuterol up to 5 tabs per day for 2 weeks on 2 off, etc. and T3 up to 50 mcg/day for one month on and one off, etc. at the same time plus HCG throughout as needed to keep my nuts from shrinking.

I would appreciate any thoughts/comments/suggestions. Thanks.

 

[MikeyG]

Well first off, I've used Stenox Halo 2.5mg tabs for 15mg a day for 3.5 weeks and noticed no sides, but with some aggressivness and good strength gains and very impressive hardness of the muscles. I really don't think it's that toxic as compared to other orals-- just take plenty of ALA, Liver detox, milk thistle, and you should be allright. Just dont take it any longer than 4 weeks max and keep it under 20 or 15mg a day.

As far as anavar, i want to note that taking only 20mg a day will be a waste of money IMO. Read up on some threads on 'Var bro. You should throw in some test or something.

HCG is not needed throughout cycle bro-- and I doubt that anavar nor halo would shrink your balls. sure it'll shut you down, but not as much as fina or deca would.

 

[NorCalBdyBldr]

Thanks bro. I just wasn't sure about combining Halotestin with Anavar as both are orals and I have never used halostestin before so I am not sure how I'll react to it. I have used Anavar up to 50 mg/day stacked with Deca and Test without any liver enzymes or PSA elevations or any noticeable problems--I do get my blood checked regularly on and off cycle. I have also never used an anti-e as I have only had moderate water retention when using dbol with test and deca and no history or even the slightest symptoms of gyno even at doses of test backed with deca of 1.2 grams of each per week and my physician was not particularly concerned with my on cycle estrodiol levels although they were elevated. I am currently off cycle and have been dieting down to cut in. I am just throwing around ideas of how to put together a good cutting cycle with what I can get readily get my hands on which includes test-c, test-enanthate, deca, anavar, HCG, HGH, T3, Clenbuterol and possibly halotestin and possibly proviron and keep things as hard and lean as possible. I usually consider test and deca bulking drugs so was considering leaving them out of the mix. I am currently ramping off of my first month of T3 post cycle and will begin clenbuterol again in another week (doing two weeks on and two weeks off on a continuing basis between bulking cycles). I am tending to keep the T3 at no more than 50 mcg/day instead of going higher to 100 mcg/day as I would prefer to err on the side of safety than screw up my thyroid hormone levels. I am also doing the T3 one month on and one month off, etc. while in between actual bulking cycles. I don't plan on doing another bulking cycle until fall and want to keep it lean and hard throughout the summer. So any additional insights would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Fukkenshredded]

Uh...halo is much more toxic than other orals. Much more. Do a search for the thread about halo vs. other orals...it was posted aobut a month or so ago, and I outlined in detail the chemistry of halo and why it is toxic.

 

[MikeyG]

fukkenshred: I agree that halo is quite toxic-- but hell, any oral steroid is quite toxic to your liver bro. I would think each person would react to it differently by dosage and taking proper liver protectants as well. I honestly think keeping it a min of 15mg and maximum of 3 or 4 week span-- will somewhat slightly elevate liver values-- but once again-- protectants are important.

I do think there's other orals out there that are even more toxic than halo. It's been debated in EF as well.

NorCalBdyBldr: man bro.. you've got alot on your mind don't ya I'll just say that just keep reading up on some cutting agents and I'd keep halo out of the mix for now because it's really purely used for contests IMO. Extreme hardness and mainting stregth on a low calorie diet while cutting. But, I want to add that you've got to have a low bodyfat to see max effects on halo.
I wish i could help you out on T3, clen topic-- I've never used them so I'm not going to say anything about 'em

 

[gilly6993]

due to it's toxicity I would stay away from halo unless you're doing a show, then I'd run it the last 3-4 weeks.....

 

[Fukkenshredded]

Okay, here it is again...from now on you guys need to search for this kind of stuff--I've posted this a minimum of four times here, so this is the last.

A little insight about relative toxicity...

(I reworded this slightly for clarification))

All oral steroids have the 17 alpha alkylation, a chemical bond that must be broken before the drug becomes bioavailable.

Now, some steroids, like winstrol, have an additional bond that adds to its toxicity. Most orals have either one or two chemical bonds that need to be broken down in order to render the steroid bioavailable.

The reason why Halotestin is the harshest on the liver is because halo incorporates a combination of three chemical bonds that are all toxic features. These include a 17-a methyl group, a 9-a fluorine, and a 11-OH group.

Halotestin alone has all three of these bonds.

The chemical name for fluoxymesterone is androst-4-en-3-one, 9-fluoro11,17-dihydroxy-1,7-methyl-,(11b,7b)-. So we see that it has 17A methyl(17alpha alkylated), which is indeed toxic. This is the bond that gives us the name 17aa, and the one that is common among all orals.

The second arrangement that Halotestin contains is 9-alpha fluorine (fuorine is used to protect substances from breaking down, as with sodium fluoride, etc). This version of Fluorine is also very toxic.

Lastly, halotestin contains some of the 11-Hydroxyl Group which is must be enzymatically reduced to the corresponding 11-hydroxy derivative before becoming biologically active. This reaction is carried out by a distinct 11-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase isozyme in the liver that operates in a reductive capacity.

This process alone is very toxic, not just to the liver, but to the kidneys.

These are, specifically, the three bonds that Fonz has repeatedly referred to in his posts about tis drug's toxicity. He unfortunately one time used the phrase 'triple bond', which led to some dispute because it is not actually a triple bond, but three seperate chemical bonds (which is what he already knew, but others misunderstood).

The idea that all orals are equally toxic is a dangerous one. They are not. Do your research to understand the differences.

With halotestin, andronergic activity is increased 10 times and anabolic activity increased 20 times over that of 17-a methyl testosterone. This gives you an idea of its efficacy, and why it is such a favorite for those looking for added strength.



Last edited by Fukkenshredded on 18-Mar-2003 at 04:00 AM

 

[animal B]

halo is not as bad as you think..was doing 50mg/day for 6 weeks for my last show...of the american floroxmethsterone...anavar is the most toxic mg for mg

 

[NorCalBdyBldr]

Thanks Fukkenshredded for the information. I was vaguely aware of the three different bond issues with regards to Halotestin and know that it is very toxic. That was part of my concern with stacking it with Anavar, another 17aa drug. I am concerned about the added effects of both together regarding liver toxicities since I have never stacked two 17aa drugs together. Normally I stack only one 17aa drug with a stack of non 17aa injectibles. Based on blood testing, I have not shown liver toxicity to be a problem with Anavar on doses of up to 50 mg/day stacked on top of Test-C and Deca. Since I have never used Halotestin before I am not sure how I would react to it. I have never had aggression problems with AAS except when "off cycle" and Test levels are low (feel like crap and am irritable and can snap easily...LOL...so I consciously make an effort to control it).

If it is too risky to stack Halotestin with another 17aa drug, then would it be just as effective and safer to use Oxandrin in a cutting cycle and then replace it with the Halotestin for the remaining four weeks at up to 20 mg/day (four doses 5 mg each spread throughout the day)?

I am trying to get harder and more ripped than last year. Normally my bodyfat is in single digits even when I am on a bulking cyckle and force feeding to gain--9.5% according to both hydrostatic tank weighing and dexascan while on full bulking cycle. Obviously, since I have been off cycle for a month and am dieting down, I am quite a bit leaner than that now. I am trying to get leaner and harder than last year where I bottomed out at 5.9% bodyfat without using anything except diet (four months straight) plus the CAE stack for one month on and one off, etc.

With the use this year of the clenbuterol and T3 combined with diet, I have gotten to about the point I was last year in a month instead of taking four months. However, I do find it very tough to break below this point in terms of leaness. So what are your thoughts on alternating the two, four weeks of Anavar then finishing the cycle with four weeks of Halotestin and what would you stack them with to maximize cuts?

Again, I appreciate any thoughts and input.

 

[junk]

When people say they didn't get the sides this or sides that. I wonder how many of them really went through the trouble of actually making blood tests for Liver Enzymes?

You don't always 'get the sides' until it's too late. A blood test will reveal which of the 17AA orals are the worest.