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greatest. country. ever.

Lao Tzu

Lao Tzu

New member
Whats the greatest country ever? i'd say england for a variety of reasons.

1. England largely gave birth to the modern world. They had direct & indirect influence in creating Canada, the US, Australia, England, Ireland, Scotland, Hong Kong & New Zealand. They also helped rebuild Japan & Germany after WW 2.

2. They were a major player in the reformation, industrial revolutions and scientific revolutions of the last 1000 years.

3. England is currently a developed nation with a good domestic & foreign human rights/political rights record.

2nd best would probably be France for the same reasons.

Show me why i'm wrong.
 
:)

to be fair we have done a lot of evil shit, ran an empire funded by unscrupulous means in many cases and killed an insurgences. we also invented concentration camps and were the first people to gas the kurds (screw u saddam! :D)

the only reason our empire fell apart was because after WW2 we didnt have enouhg troops to stop people declaring independance.



though it fills me with pride everytime i see something our people did that was fucking badass....we really made an impact on the world as a whole. medical, science, culture, art (probably), literature.....all from such a tiny country.
 
4. helped to fight and eliminate the nazis, the italian fascists, the japanese fascists and the soviets. then tried to help rebuild the countries afterwards.
 
danielson said:
:)

to be fair we have done a lot of evil shit, ran an empire funded by unscrupulous means in many cases and killed an insurgences. we also invented concentration camps and were the first people to gas the kurds (screw u saddam! :D)

the only reason our empire fell apart was because after WW2 we didnt have enouhg troops to stop people declaring independance.



though it fills me with pride everytime i see something our people did that was fucking badass....we really made an impact on the world as a whole. medical, science, culture, art (probably), literature.....all from such a tiny country.
Click to expand...

I know england did evil shit, but they've done good too. Besides, finding a country w/o blood on its hands is almost impossible, esp. considering how little respect was given to human rights up until 20-50 years ago. In america, where (according to americans at least) promoting human rights & democracy abroad are considered laudable goals, our foreign policy didn't even incorporate the idea until post-vietnam. I think German concentration camps and the Soviets had an effect on the worlds view of promotion of human rights.

Are you sure lack of troops is the main reason England decolonized? Even if so, Its not like they were hellish shitholes. Hong Kong was very free under British rule, and one of the standards of turning Hong Kong over to China was to guarantee the freedoms of the people there.

The fact that England was a major player in creating the modern world is really striking when you think of it. Many developed countries which now power the world financially, morally & technologically were started as English colonies. And England has been a major factor in every major revolution which benefited the world (scientific, humanistic, technological, military).
 
nordstrom said:


I know england did evil shit, but they've done good too. Besides, finding a country w/o blood on its hands is almost impossible, esp. considering how little respect was given to human rights up until 20-50 years ago. In america, where (according to americans at least) promoting human rights & democracy abroad are considered laudable goals, our foreign policy didn't even incorporate the idea until post-vietnam. I think German concentration camps and the Soviets had an effect on the worlds view of promotion of human rights.

Are you sure lack of troops is the main reason England decolonized? Even if so, Its not like they were hellish shitholes. Hong Kong was very free under British rule, and one of the standards of turning Hong Kong over to China was to guarantee the freedoms of the people there.

The fact that England was a major player in creating the modern world is really striking when you think of it. Many developed countries which now power the world financially, morally & technologically were started as English colonies. And England has been a major factor in every major revolution which benefited the world (scientific, humanistic, technological, military).
Click to expand...

it is utterly awesome when you think how much we contributed to the development of other countries and the world as a whole. there are whole museums filled with the contributions we made to modern science

but dont underestimate how evil we were. churchil was a racist fuck who's interfering killed many a soldier and who gassed kurds merely for a revolt. hong kong may have been free but its creations was promoited by the shipping of opium

every country we colonised was done with blood being spilt and raping their natural resources.
 
supernav said:
England *was* a good country.

but just like the US. Millions of foreigners from africa, india, china, philippines, israel, etc. have moved themselves in. So if you go to England, it's a lot less the England you're raving about. But a mix of many countries now.

I went to England thought i'd find all kinds of English people, all fit and proper. And instead, i kept bouncing into Jamaicans, and chinese and French. I felt like i was in New York. Go figure.

-= nav =-
Click to expand...

try devon england. its a great place to live and visit.
 
danielson said:


it is utterly awesome when you think how much we contributed to the development of other countries and the world as a whole. there are whole museums filled with the contributions we made to modern science

but dont underestimate how evil we were. churchil was a racist fuck who's interfering killed many a soldier and who gassed kurds merely for a revolt. hong kong may have been free but its creations was promoited by the shipping of opium

every country we colonised was done with blood being spilt and raping their natural resources.
Click to expand...

yeah i know. What i'm saying is no country was any different from that back then though. Even the Scandanavians, who are now considered by some to be the most liberal, humanistic countries on earth started out as Vikings, raping & pillaging defenseless people.
 
nordstrom said:


yeah i know. What i'm saying is no country was any different from that back then though. Even the Scandanavians, who are now considered by some to be the most liberal, humanistic countries on earth started out as Vikings, raping & pillaging defenseless people.
Click to expand...

difference is we did this shit when the world was supposedly civillised.....puts some perspective on todays actions and the fragility of our way of life when 50 something yrs ago the standard response to a demonstration was to lob mustard gas at them from some bi-plane
 
nordstrom said:
Whats the greatest country ever? i'd say england for a variety of reasons.

1. England largely gave birth to the modern world. They had direct & indirect influence in creating Canada, the US, Australia, England, Ireland, Scotland, Hong Kong & New Zealand. They also helped rebuild Japan & Germany after WW 2.

2. They were a major player in the reformation, industrial revolutions and scientific revolutions of the last 1000 years.

3. England is currently a developed nation with a good domestic & foreign human rights/political rights record.

2nd best would probably be France for the same reasons.

Show me why i'm wrong.
Click to expand...

England is a country? Who knew?
 
danielson said:


difference is we did this shit when the world was supposedly civillised.....puts some perspective on todays actions and the fragility of our way of life when 50 something yrs ago the standard response to a demonstration was to lob mustard gas at them from some bi-plane
Click to expand...

the gassing of the kurds by the English was about 75 years ago, not 50. The world is changing. i was watching a prison documentary a few weeks ago and they talked about how in America 70 years ago people were given 20 year jail sentences for belonging to socialist or communist parties. In todays world, only the most repressive dictators do things like that (ie Castros giving 28 year sentences to political dissidents). Its interesting that the worst actions of modern dictators of today were considered acceptable actions of civilized countries 70 years ago but again, that was normal at the time. in 100 years we will be looked at as monsters but right now its considered normal.
 
Re: Re: Re: greatest. country. ever.

nordstrom said:


i'm american actually.
Click to expand...

off topic. how did you get the finances to move out of the country? im trying to move out of state but its hard if you dont know anyone from wherever you want to move to
 
nordstrom said:


the gassing of the kurds by the English was about 75 years ago, not 50. The world is changing. i was watching a prison documentary a few weeks ago and they talked about how in America 70 years ago people were given 20 year jail sentences for belonging to socialist or communist parties. In todays world, only the most repressive dictators do things like that (ie Castros giving 28 year sentences to political dissidents). Its interesting that the worst actions of modern dictators of today were considered acceptable actions of civilized countries 70 years ago but again, that was normal at the time. in 100 years we will be looked at as monsters but right now its considered normal.
Click to expand...

churchils time. i still think im in the early90's, not 2003 :D

i agree its amazing how far we've come, and frightening to think how quickly we could degenerate into the tyranny of the mccarthy style justice
 
nordstrom said:

1. England largely gave birth to the modern world. They had direct & indirect influence in creating Canada, the US, Australia, England, Ireland, Scotland, Hong Kong & New Zealand.
Click to expand...
THAT'S the modern world? And ENGLAND (as much as it's not a country) did that? I think it's wrong to say that England had much to do with creating the US. The US was created by a vast variety of immigrants from a large number of countries. According to the 2000 census, only 10% of Americans are of English descent. The British ruled the US as a colony for a period, but I just don't think it's accurate to say that they "created" the US. A much more diverse group "created" the US.

Canada, maybe. Australia, sure. England, duh, Ireland, questionable. Scotland (happens to be part of the COUNTRY called the UK). Hong Kong, sure. New Zealand, sure. But all of those countries together represent no more than 150 million people (so half of the US, or roughly 2% of the world population). The "modern world" is a lil bit bigger than that...

nordstrom said:

They also helped rebuild Japan & Germany after WW 2.
Click to expand...
That was mainly done by a country called the US of A....
 
Re: Re: greatest. country. ever.

hellorhih2o said:

THAT'S the modern world? And ENGLAND (as much as it's not a country) did that? I think it's wrong to say that England had much to do with creating the US. The US was created by a vast variety of immigrants from a large number of countries. According to the 2000 census, only 10% of Americans are of English descent. The British ruled the US as a colony for a period, but I just don't think it's accurate to say that they "created" the US. A much more diverse group "created" the US.

Canada, maybe. Australia, sure. England, duh, Ireland, questionable. Scotland (happens to be part of the COUNTRY called the UK). Hong Kong, sure. New Zealand, sure. But all of those countries together represent no more than 150 million people (so half of the US, or roughly 2% of the world population). The "modern world" is a lil bit bigger than that...
Click to expand...
and all of them are 1st world countries who are incredibly developed. Britain helped shape america no matter how much you protest....look at the cities....look at the language....

hellorhih2o said:

That was mainly done by a country called the US of A....
Click to expand...

the U.S. was worth twice what it was when it went to war. they could afford it

Britain had no econimic reasons for war it was essentially altruistic for them. they suffered financial losses worse than any other country (other than maybe the losers) and still compensated the enemies and helped rebuild them. this is admirable, whicever way u spin it.
 
Re: Re: greatest. country. ever.

hellorhih2o said:

THAT'S the modern world? And ENGLAND (as much as it's not a country) did that? I think it's wrong to say that England had much to do with creating the US. The US was created by a vast variety of immigrants from a large number of countries. According to the 2000 census, only 10% of Americans are of English descent. The British ruled the US as a colony for a period, but I just don't think it's accurate to say that they "created" the US. A much more diverse group "created" the US.
Click to expand...


Hmmm. England was the leader of America as it developed itself, and america was started as a colony to provide raw material for england. England oversaw america for 170 years.


hellorhih2o said:

Canada, maybe. Australia, sure. England, duh, Ireland, questionable. Scotland (happens to be part of the COUNTRY called the UK). Hong Kong, sure. New Zealand, sure. But all of those countries together represent no more than 150 million people (so half of the US, or roughly 2% of the world population). The "modern world" is a lil bit bigger than that...
Click to expand...

I'm talking about the modern scientific, military, technological & moral world of today, not the population world (3/5 of the world population lives in Southern & south east asia, but they are generally minor players in the going ons of the world at large scientifically, politically or militarily). alot of the countries which are leaders in these fields are countries that started as English colonies. Plus England played a large role in the revolutions which created todays world. The reformation, the scientific revolutions and the industrial revolutions.

And i keep forgetting which geographic region is the UK and which is england. dammitalltohell.

And even though the US is populated by a variety of immigrant the nation was started and built as an English colony.

hellorhih2o said:

That was mainly done by a country called the US of A....
Click to expand...

Yes, and England helped. And America was started as an english colony.
 
^

I would say China was the greatest country until the UK rose to power. China did not start the industrial revolution, but before that they had an amazingly stable empire that spanned China and indirectly all of East Asia.

With colonialism I think the UK became the then greatest country and China was reduced to backwardness, poverty and turmoil (which is changing).

Both countries were great, but saying one is greater than another is too broad for me.

The US has been the greatest country in the last 60 years in my opinion, but I don't think it could be called the greatest country ever.
 
The Uk, is a great place to live, but is in real danger of going right downhill due to Blair's inability to get tough on issues such as immigrants and the benefits they get when they arrive.


Jersey is probably the best country, you actually have to be invited to live there.
 
England is an interesting call...democracy came to be what we know of it today through iterations of progress over there...although the Jews and the Greeks had it in other forms long before.

Smartest thing England ever did was tell the Pope to eat shit. That opened the door to greatness. Spain by contrast was hugely Pope-loyal and all they did was steal so much gold that they marginalized their empire through inflation. You want to see the difference between being in CAtholic Europe and Protestant Europe: look at the diffrence between North and South America today.

England's colonial efforts have resulted in a lot of modern day strife. England mastered the policy of colonial divide and conquer, installing native leaders as puppets so that (for example) a few thousand English could govern tens of millions in India.

Modern day Middle eastern boundaires are also largely the work of England - Iraq, Jordan, Saudi etc. A little foresight would have helped.

England also accepted (though grudgingly) lots of Jews during WW2, when even the US turned them away. After the war, England basically ran them off, but many are alive today because of those efforts.

Interesting posts from the Brits. :)


China? Other than being the "first empire" - which it really was...calling Persia an empire is wrong as the Persians had no discernible infrastructure nor did they unify diverse cultures. China on the other hand had an irrigation infrastructure spanning thousands of miles and a sameness of language spanning most of eastern China 2000 years ago.

But China has lost its luster; any country where people still starve to death and protests are crushed with tanks is not the greatest anything.


My vote: modern day America....not because Americans are better than other people, but because we represent the pinnacle of progress of a thousand years of work toward democracy and human rights. Our foreign policy is intrusive but on balance benevolent - far from seeking a worldwide wmpire we've invaded sporadically - the truth is the US could conquer the world today.

Our economic policies, even with taxes too high, is still facvorable compared to Europe.

We have a huge amount of social programs designed to make things bettrr for the poor, and we have bent over backwards (too far?) to make race accommodations.

Our country's fucked up pretty bad, but it's the best thing going.
 
White European men had the proper luck to be well suited for boat travel, as well as the nice fact that they had built up immunity to a wide array of airborne pathogens that they were exposed to in their climate.
Due to the resources at hand and the lack of proper resources in other things, they took off to find such things - and as a result, our modern day situation exists.

I would say simply due to luck, the greatest countries over time are in Europe, and then it is just a matter of arguing which is the best at various matters within that region.
 
Hmmm. England was the leader of America as it developed itself, and america was started as a colony to provide raw material for england. England oversaw america for 170 years.


the englishmen (and their descendents )who came to the west to govern were cultural and sociopolitical elites, they would have enjoyed status and prestige had they stayed overseas. the english colonized the americas to exploit its resources by whatever means necessary. 'oversaw' is a bit of simplification.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:
England is an interesting call...democracy came to be what we know of it today through iterations of progress over there...although the Jews and the Greeks had it in other forms long before.

Smartest thing England ever did was tell the Pope to eat shit. That opened the door to greatness. Spain by contrast was hugely Pope-loyal and all they did was steal so much gold that they marginalized their empire through inflation. You want to see the difference between being in CAtholic Europe and Protestant Europe: look at the diffrence between North and South America today.

England's colonial efforts have resulted in a lot of modern day strife. England mastered the policy of colonial divide and conquer, installing native leaders as puppets so that (for example) a few thousand English could govern tens of millions in India.

Modern day Middle eastern boundaires are also largely the work of England - Iraq, Jordan, Saudi etc. A little foresight would have helped.

England also accepted (though grudgingly) lots of Jews during WW2, when even the US turned them away. After the war, England basically ran them off, but many are alive today because of those efforts.

Interesting posts from the Brits. :)


China? Other than being the "first empire" - which it really was...calling Persia an empire is wrong as the Persians had no discernible infrastructure nor did they unify diverse cultures. China on the other hand had an irrigation infrastructure spanning thousands of miles and a sameness of language spanning most of eastern China 2000 years ago.

But China has lost its luster; any country where people still starve to death and protests are crushed with tanks is not the greatest anything.


My vote: modern day America....not because Americans are better than other people, but because we represent the pinnacle of progress of a thousand years of work toward democracy and human rights. Our foreign policy is intrusive but on balance benevolent - far from seeking a worldwide wmpire we've invaded sporadically - the truth is the US could conquer the world today.

Our economic policies, even with taxes too high, is still facvorable compared to Europe.

We have a huge amount of social programs designed to make things bettrr for the poor, and we have bent over backwards (too far?) to make race accommodations.

Our country's fucked up pretty bad, but it's the best thing going.
Click to expand...
This is great. We have one person who has been in the private sector for years and is a big fan.

No shortage of intelligence or competence but being in the right business at the right time while knowing the right people.................


In years past, we had 10 times the fans.
 
Testosterone boy said:
Cuz it's true?

I heard you are liking Australia fairly well.
Click to expand...

Depends what you measure a country by and to how many others you have been to I would have to say.

But yeah it's a great place. I dare say it's the greatest ever though.
 
nordstrom said:
Whats the greatest country ever? i'd say england for a variety of reasons.

1. England largely gave birth to the modern world. They had direct & indirect influence in creating Canada, the US, Australia, England, Ireland, Scotland, Hong Kong & New Zealand. They also helped rebuild Japan & Germany after WW 2.

2. They were a major player in the reformation, industrial revolutions and scientific revolutions of the last 1000 years.

3. England is currently a developed nation with a good domestic & foreign human rights/political rights record.

2nd best would probably be France for the same reasons.

Show me why i'm wrong.
Click to expand...

its clear and obvious you've never lived there!

sweden has to make the top 3.
 
Re: Re: Re: greatest. country. ever.

tuc biscuit said:


What makes you say that.
Click to expand...

england is history pal!

the reason for thier position as a great world leader stems from their succesful history.

notice your claims:

1. England largely gave birth to the modern world. They had direct & indirect influence in creating Canada, the US, Australia, England, Ireland, Scotland, Hong Kong & New Zealand. They also helped rebuild Japan & Germany after WW 2.

KEY WORD IS 'GAVE'.. PAST TENSE. THEY'RE NO LONGER DOING ANYTHING MORE THAN FEEDING ILLEGAL THIRD WORLD IMMIGRANTS.

2. They were a major player in the reformation, industrial revolutions and scientific revolutions of the last 1000 years

KEY WORD ONCE AGAIN 'WERE'. NO LONGER DOING ANYTHING TO ADVANCE THEMSELVES. THATS WHY THE HEALTH SYSTEM THERE SUCKS BALLS AND POVERTY IS HIGH. OH.. AND THEY'RE ALSO TECHNOLOGICALLY FAR BEHIND!

lived there for 2 years bro... totally expected a world leader. very dissapointed.
 
tuc biscuit said:
what were you dissapointed with, and what bit did you live in.
Click to expand...

lived in hampstead london... a very upscale area in lodnon as you should know given that you're from england.

i was dissapointed in more than one way.
but i really dont wanna get into it as london left a bad taste in my mouth.

i honestly think the country is ran pathetically.
their biggest flaw is their extremely (and i repeat EXTREMEMLY) liberal immigration policy.
 
London isn't a good representation of the country, next time go up North to Manchester or leeds and you will love it.

The immigration is getting ridiculous, I agree.
 
tuc biscuit said:
London isn't a good representation of the country, next time go up North to Manchester or leeds and you will love it.

The immigration is getting ridiculous, I agree.
Click to expand...

fair enough bro..

i actually went up to leeds and found it a much more pleasant enviorment. bristol was also pretty far from dark and gloomy london.

one good thing came outta london though...

i started my business there which is now off the hook!
 
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