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GH- why 5 on 2 off??
- Thread starter TooJacked
- Start date
I have to disagree here. There are actually 3 well defined feedback mechanisms for GH production and they all work on different intervals (ie ultrashort loop, short loop and long loop) and they have varying effects effects on the pulsitile nature of GH release. Its a very common misconception, but over the past couple years there have been great advancements in identifying the GH-IGF-1 axis.XXXL said:
My pleasurenautica said:Thanks zyg,
Once again you have confusted the hell out of me.
Nautica
Im a bit short on time at themoment but if I can get to my comp later tonight I will try and elaborate on the methods of feedback so this becomes a bit more clear.
yes, that is a new one to me. i'd love for you to post the info and where it came from. maybe some links.
and how long are the intervals? (ultrashort,short, and long) is the longest one less than 2 hours? if that is the case, i don't see what you'r saying.
post the info, it would be a great read.
thanks!
and how long are the intervals? (ultrashort,short, and long) is the longest one less than 2 hours? if that is the case, i don't see what you'r saying.
post the info, it would be a great read.
thanks!
still this a contradiction because...
Normally it is said that one should take growth in the morning and in the evening (or in the afternoon and at night, whatever), but with the 5 on 2 off one is putting his body in a good and bad condition because to keep growth levels in the body for a certain time one is shooting growth 2 or 3 times a day for 5 days and all of a sudden rules go overboard and one stops for 2 days.
What i can understand more is: when doing 5 days on and 2 days off, the joint get a good time for recovery. Recovery is even better with 4 on and 3 off.
Jeff
Normally it is said that one should take growth in the morning and in the evening (or in the afternoon and at night, whatever), but with the 5 on 2 off one is putting his body in a good and bad condition because to keep growth levels in the body for a certain time one is shooting growth 2 or 3 times a day for 5 days and all of a sudden rules go overboard and one stops for 2 days.
What i can understand more is: when doing 5 days on and 2 days off, the joint get a good time for recovery. Recovery is even better with 4 on and 3 off.
Jeff
interesting. do you by any chance have anything the explains in greater detail about the "surppressed exercise-stimulated endogenous circlating isoforms of gh for up to 4 day"? wich is the key statement.
i kind of that statement two different ways and i'm not sure what to make of it. do we produce more gh when exercising then we do when not? do we take that as you will still produce your normal gh levels but will have a decreased "exercise-stimulated" gh production?
this is great info, if you get the chance, please post whatever you have.
thanks!
i kind of that statement two different ways and i'm not sure what to make of it. do we produce more gh when exercising then we do when not? do we take that as you will still produce your normal gh levels but will have a decreased "exercise-stimulated" gh production?
this is great info, if you get the chance, please post whatever you have.
thanks!
A little more to wet your apetite. I think that we can all agree (hell and if not pick up any endocrine book) that GH stimulates IGF-1 production. With that in mind, here is another abstracts displaying some of the inhibiting effects IGF-1 has on GH release.
i am very curious also about our own GH production
Isn't are own production stopped while on HGH? I have read it took 3 days before our body was producing again. Don' t know if this is true. But when shooting more then double dose per day then our body can make, it could well be production stops.
It would be logical.
Don't blame me for that, i am searching for answers as well.
Jeff
Isn't are own production stopped while on HGH? I have read it took 3 days before our body was producing again. Don' t know if this is true. But when shooting more then double dose per day then our body can make, it could well be production stops.
It would be logical.
Don't blame me for that, i am searching for answers as well.
Jeff
Not to be disagreeable here, but I don't think the studies mentioned above are conclusive at all as to longterm suppression of natural GH secretion by use of exogenous GH.
The first study mentioned shows suppression of EXERCISE stimulated GH release, and is from a 1986 Australian publication.
More recent studies identify 12 different GH releasing actions....both physiological and pharmacological. By far the largest release of natural GH occurs during the first period of REM sleep.....up to 80% of the total day's production. No study shows this to be suppressed if the exogenous injection was taken sufficiently in advance of bedtime.
These matters and more are covered in the new medical text book, Basic and Clinical Endocrinology, 5th Edition. The general consensus of recent research seems to support the argument for suppression being measured in hours, not days......except perhaps for exercise related release.
Having said all that, Zyg could be entirely right......the research in the area of GH supplementation as it relates to healthy people (let alone BB'ers) is lacking indeed, and much of it contradicts other studies......it's damn hard to tell, so I will contiue to rely on personal experience and anecdotal evidence from other serious GH users.
For your information, take a look at this list which shows factors suppressing natural GH release........wow........yohimbine, ephedrine, clen, anti-depressants.....all the stuff we use.
Factors Decreasing
GH Secretion:
Hyperglycemia
Fasting
Elevated Blood Free
Fatty Acids
Obesity
Somatostatin
Alpha antagonists
(yohimbine)
Beta agonists
(ephedrine, clenbuterol)
Serotonin antagonists
Dopamine antagonists
The first study mentioned shows suppression of EXERCISE stimulated GH release, and is from a 1986 Australian publication.
More recent studies identify 12 different GH releasing actions....both physiological and pharmacological. By far the largest release of natural GH occurs during the first period of REM sleep.....up to 80% of the total day's production. No study shows this to be suppressed if the exogenous injection was taken sufficiently in advance of bedtime.
These matters and more are covered in the new medical text book, Basic and Clinical Endocrinology, 5th Edition. The general consensus of recent research seems to support the argument for suppression being measured in hours, not days......except perhaps for exercise related release.
Having said all that, Zyg could be entirely right......the research in the area of GH supplementation as it relates to healthy people (let alone BB'ers) is lacking indeed, and much of it contradicts other studies......it's damn hard to tell, so I will contiue to rely on personal experience and anecdotal evidence from other serious GH users.
For your information, take a look at this list which shows factors suppressing natural GH release........wow........yohimbine, ephedrine, clen, anti-depressants.....all the stuff we use.
Factors Decreasing
GH Secretion:
Hyperglycemia
Fasting
Elevated Blood Free
Fatty Acids
Obesity
Somatostatin
Alpha antagonists
(yohimbine)
Beta agonists
(ephedrine, clenbuterol)
Serotonin antagonists
Dopamine antagonists
Good input IronMaster, those were just a couple abstracts I had handy. Once again my evening last night was pretty booked up.
The full text to first abstract I showed in itself was very confusing. The researchers did a very poor job of outlining thier study and it seems that even the basline GH release variances between subjects was HUGE. This thread is of great interest to me and I will keep plugging away as well.
I like your list of things that reduce GH. I posed the question in one of the yohimburn threads that if yo did such a great job, I was curious as to how much the acceleated release of FFA's from adipocytes would affect GH release and surmised that for fat loss, Yo and GH may be a great combo.
I myself had to stop GH last friday, I was so stiff and achy and my arms were numb, was scary shit, but im starting to get the feeling back now, in all but a couple fingers on right hand. All that off of only 4IU dialy.
The full text to first abstract I showed in itself was very confusing. The researchers did a very poor job of outlining thier study and it seems that even the basline GH release variances between subjects was HUGE. This thread is of great interest to me and I will keep plugging away as well.
I like your list of things that reduce GH. I posed the question in one of the yohimburn threads that if yo did such a great job, I was curious as to how much the acceleated release of FFA's from adipocytes would affect GH release and surmised that for fat loss, Yo and GH may be a great combo.
I myself had to stop GH last friday, I was so stiff and achy and my arms were numb, was scary shit, but im starting to get the feeling back now, in all but a couple fingers on right hand. All that off of only 4IU dialy.
hehe Ironmaster
glad to see you coming in here.
In my case whether HGH is still produced or not is of less importance. When blood tests are checked (before HGH use) my production was so low they could not trace it.
As for the joints (and muscles) a product named "Mariandl" (www.parmalux.nl) helped me get through it. Unfortunately the site is in Dutch. This product lubricates the joints. I still take double dose a day.
Glucosamine did zip for me. I had to stop shooting the muscles also.
Jeff
glad to see you coming in here.
In my case whether HGH is still produced or not is of less importance. When blood tests are checked (before HGH use) my production was so low they could not trace it.
As for the joints (and muscles) a product named "Mariandl" (www.parmalux.nl) helped me get through it. Unfortunately the site is in Dutch. This product lubricates the joints. I still take double dose a day.
Glucosamine did zip for me. I had to stop shooting the muscles also.
Jeff
this is turning out to be a very informitive post. i agree that it can be very confusing with so many studies from well respected university and such contradict each other over and over.
if exersise stimulated gh is surpressed i find it to not be an issue (with me) if that is in fact correct and only the exersise stimulated gh prodution. i inject after every work out. and what i inject is far greater an amount than what i could produce naturally even if unsurpressed.
but that is just my first impression to all of this info. i don't know about you guys, but i have to read something like this a few times come back to it later and read it again to see if i'm still getting the same thing from it. then think about it before it really sets in and i'm able to take away from them what i need to.
at the very least it is very interesting and definitly food for thought.
keep it comming Z
if exersise stimulated gh is surpressed i find it to not be an issue (with me) if that is in fact correct and only the exersise stimulated gh prodution. i inject after every work out. and what i inject is far greater an amount than what i could produce naturally even if unsurpressed.
but that is just my first impression to all of this info. i don't know about you guys, but i have to read something like this a few times come back to it later and read it again to see if i'm still getting the same thing from it. then think about it before it really sets in and i'm able to take away from them what i need to.
at the very least it is very interesting and definitly food for thought.
keep it comming Z
Jeff........that's great! You found something to help the joint problems. I was worried about you. I bet you get a ton of mail asking for this dutch drug.
I'm like you, my GH level was 60% off normal. I'm using for life, and I feel better than I did 10 years ago.
I'm like you, my GH level was 60% off normal. I'm using for life, and I feel better than I did 10 years ago.
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