George's DNP article

[KillerLoop]

What do you DNP experts think about George's DNP cycle advise??

 

[Rebelrocker]

Bump

 

[Annihilator99]

Alot of the advice looks solid. Some looks a bit like it clashes with other advice given. Giving it a bump here.

 

[overrx]

i think the cycle would be a lot more effective if you carb depleted for a week and then started using 50 mcg of t3 tapering down to 25mcg starting on the day of your dnp cycle and ending 2 weeks after. not that the carb deplete is necessary at all but you would be losing fat for that one week that u did it.

 

[Andy13]

Carb depleting is completely unnecesary. When at rest, your body PREFERS to burn fats over glucose. Furthermore, if your body "burns all it's sugars before getting to fat" like George leads you to believe, then your carbohydrate stores would be deminished in a very short time.

And I'm talking about a person at REST! Now lets look at someone who is active. If your body burned all of it's sugars before fats, the world record for the marathon would probably be hours longer than what it is today. Even running a marathon you use BOTH glucose and fats. Now, when you are at rest, the majority of your fuel usage comes from fats.

Guys erroneously think that they are burning more fat on DNP when they carb deplete because they "feel like shit" after the first day or so. When you DON'T carb deplete, you don't feel like shit until after a few days. This doesn't mean you are not burning any fat, it means that your liver and muscle glycogen stores aren't completely depleted yet and is able to provide you with adequat thyroid hormone and less lethargy. The "feel like shit" feeling is a combination of depleted glycogen stores, reduced t3, and increased gluconeogenesis, and perhaps mild ketosis.

Andy

 

[Andy13]

But I did think the supplementation advice was solid. I also agree that newbies should start off low, like George explains... However I feel there is a tremendous value to the expirienced user in shorter cycles with a 3-2-1 dosage pattern.. These can be completed every week instead of one miserable week, then one week to recover. They also have the advantage of frequeny, weekly supercompensations.

When I first started toying with these cycles, I would use 600mg on day one, 400mg on day two and 200mg on day three. ALmost no sides! I've since been able to go up as high as 1gram taken thoughout the day on day one and then 600mg on day two followed by 200mg on day three with minimal sides.

I'll say it again. I think DNP is extremely effective and PRECISE! If you compared it to AAS, there are a number of factors that can make one cycle of xmg/week fantastic or not so hot.. But with DNP, it's as predictable as the sunrise. What I mean is that I believe after so many cycles, if you keep really good records of calories, activity level, body weight and composition. I think you can predict how much fat you will lose with a cycle of xmg DNP at y calories.


Andy

 

[overrx]

Andy is that using powder or crystal -- cause doesnt powder affect the -effectivness time- like most people say the dnp doesnt hit you until day 3 w/ powder, so im wondering how it would change your frontloading schedule.

 

[Mr H]

Andy, you're saying to just use it for 3 days?

Was fat loss as good as on a 7 day cycle?


Thanks,
H

 

[Andy13]

Where have you been H???

What I believe is that fat loss is greatest during the first few days on DNP. What I KNOW is that sides are much, much less if the BBer does shorter cycles. For instance, I did 200mg/day for about 10 days. After 10 days, I was miserable. I wasn't totally dripping with sweat but I was so lethargic and tired all the time. In those 10 days, I consumed 2000mg of DNP. I don't think I could have stayed on much longer... I'm in school and I need to fuction. After about 10 days, I was so weak and demotivated that I was getting nothing done. So if I were to continue with another cycle, I would wait at least 4 days to recover. So, basically, it was a two week cycle in which I ate 2000 calories/day and comsumed a total of 2000mg of DNP.

Now, when I did 1000-600-200, I consumed 1800mg of DNP.. I was starting to feel the heat on the last day but after one day off, I was fine. The misery wasn't even close to the long, drug out 200mg/day cycle I completed before.

So then I take the rest of the week off, and start again on Monday with another 1000-600-200. My last dose is on wednesday and I'm off until the end of the week.

Now lets compare the results of both two week periods.
When I took 200mg/day for 10 days, I took a total of 2000mg of DNP. My estimated fat loss was around 3-4lbs (skinfold measurments) (10%bf to 8.5%)

When I did the 3-2-1 cycles, I took 3600mg of DNP and the misery was much, much less. My estimate fat loss was 5-6 lbs (8.5%bf to ~6%) over the two week period.

I did eat the same calories for the two cycle, so perhaps if I had scaled down the calories for the second the fat loss would have been even greater.. But I was pretty damn hungry all the time.

So there is no question which cycle style works FOR ME. I DON'T like feeling like shit.. I DO like the weekly supercompensations.. I think that has a lot to do with my success and comfort level on the shorter cycle.

I have to say though that most guys probobly over-eat when on DNP. If you are serious about losing bodyfat and desire the most comfortable and effective way to do it, IMO, try a few of these cycles and eat around 11x bodyweight on calories.

As far as food selection, fructose is your friend when on DNP. It doesn't require insulin to enter cells and so the HEAT you feel when eating carbs like starches is avoided. This heat is a result of your cell's inability to store glycogen. And when you eat carbs and get an insulin response, it's like throwing gasline on you slow burning fire (sugars are metabolized much faster than fats). If you aim to spread out your carbs as much as possible, and eat mostly fructose, you can avoid the extreme heat. Incedentally, you can find fructose in Pepsi!!!. Don't get me wrong, you WILL feel some heat when you drink pepsi. This is because the fructose QUICKLY enters your liver and since your liver is unable to store it as glycogen, it will isomerize it to glucose and export it to the blood-- THIS causes and insulin response. It is possible to avoid the heat all together if you eat only small portions throughout the day.

Andy

 

[Andy13]

Andy is that using powder or crystal -- cause doesnt powder affect the -effectivness time- like most people say the dnp doesnt hit you until day 3 w/ powder, so im wondering how it would change your frontloading schedule.

I used powder. That's what Im most familiar with. I would seriously have to go back to the drawing board and do a few test runs if I were to use crystal.

The SOLE difference between the powder and the crystal is the amount absorbed. Lets say you consume 200mg of powder and 100mg gets absorbed. Compare that with (lets say) the whole 200mg of crystal. You can see now why it takes a few days to build up to a dose with powder. The 3-2-1 plan would still be used with the crystal since the idea is to have approx. the same amount of DNP in you for the three days, and since you start with the largest amount on the first day and work down from there, you are "back to normal" faster. However, the doses would be far less with the crystal.

I wish all of these rumors about the crystal having a shorter/longer half life would go away.. The only difference is the amount absorbed.

Andy

 

[Andy13]

.

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

Damn,that was a lot of typing my man...So the next DNP run will be fruit and pepsi's every few hours,haha.Actually that sounds like the funnest damn diet I've ever heard of,lol.

 

[KillerLoop]

Excellent reply Andy! I'm gonna try the short cycle rountine after my winter bulk cycle.

 

[Primo_man]

Very interesting post Andy, if someone were to try your type of cycle, how do you recomend one work up to the relatively high starting dosages you use? What are your stats? I'm 6' approx 190 lbs at approx 7-7.5% bf. Thanks

 

[gnostic]

Andy, you are awesome. I pronounce you the new God of DNP. Let us all bow our heads and pray.

 

[George Spellwin]

Andy, great posts bro -- I hope you will go Platinum so you can contribute on the Select board too -- lots of DNP ideas there as well.

 

[christof]

I'm just about to start my DNP cycle tomorrow. I read George's article about the supplement intake whilst on DNP.

When he says about a ECA stack to get rid of the obvious increase in hunger, would xenadrine be acceptable. If used xenadrine before and it definately supresses my appitite.

If I can use it with DNP, what sort of dosages would be recomended, the standard dosage on the bottle or not as much?

Thanks in advance.

p.s. Andy top man. A great deal of info on DNP for the newbies.

 

[DaMan]

Damn,that was a lot of typing my man...So the next DNP run will be fruit and pepsi's every few hours,haha.Actually that sounds like the funnest damn diet I've ever heard of,lol.

ARE YOU MAKING FUN OF MY DNP DIET???

That's *EXACTLY* what mine was like cuz I just don't like eating much when on dnp... along with Triple Threat Chocolate (that shit tastes PHENOMENAL). I req' about 180g protein, 280g carbs, and low fat (ca. 30g), so I figured I could get by with triple threat shakes (nonfat milk/double scoop - 50p, 20c, 0f), some fruit (30c), and a can of pepsi (35c or so) four times a day.

Sometimes would replace that last helping of fruit/pepsi with some other carbs like a bagel or lowfat cookies or something like that.

It worked. I didn't know about the pepsi fructose thing till now, so I guess I'm a natural

 

[Andy13]

I'm just about to start my DNP cycle tomorrow. I read George's article about the supplement intake whilst on DNP.

When he says about a ECA stack to get rid of the obvious increase in hunger, would xenadrine be acceptable. If used xenadrine before and it definately supresses my appitite.

If I can use it with DNP, what sort of dosages would be recomended, the standard dosage on the bottle or not as much?

Thanks in advance.

p.s. Andy top man. A great deal of info on DNP for the newbies.

Xenadrine will work fine on DNP.

When I do a DNP cycle, I try to make the most out of it as I can. I usually end up eating LESS calories than I set out too.. I figure if I'm going to (potentially) compromise my health, I might as well lose as much fat as possible.. So I LOAD UP on ECA -it helps a lot.

Also, when FFA levels are high in the blood and in the cytosol of the cell, glucose oxidation and glycogenolysis are deminished. What this means is that if you start a DNP cycle with moderate glycogen stores, you can spare your muscle glycogen for a while if you get your blood FFA levels up. ECA works well to help with this.

Andy

 

[Andy13]

Very interesting post Andy, if someone were to try your type of cycle, how do you recomend one work up to the relatively high starting dosages you use? What are your stats? I'm 6' approx 190 lbs at approx 7-7.5% bf. Thanks

I first started playing with DNP almost two years ago when most people didn't know what it was and those who did were afraid to try it. I'm not. I'm compulsive and kamakaze like that.

Anyway, I've tried just about every type of cycle you can think of. I've had my share of DNP flu as well. So I pretty much know about how much I can take and what it will do.

For someone who has never tried DNP before, I recomend you follow George's plan until you are more familiar with what the drug will do to you. Even after I completed a few cycles of DNP and thought I knew my limit I STILL caught DNP flu a time or so..

I've had the idea for the ultra short, three days cycles for a while. I first started with 400-200-200 then moved up 200mg from there. I can fairly easily do 1000-600-200 now. A BIG part of comfort on the cycle comes from your diet. I like to take my doses at night so that I don't eat carbs until at least 6 hrs after the dose. DNP peaks in the blood fairly quickly, so while on a cycle, the highest blood levels of DNP occur an hour or so after you injest it. If you can avoid eating non-fructose carbs for a while, you will be much, much, more comfortable. Even on high doses of DNP I'm fairly comfortable so long as I'm not eating massive amounts of carbs at one time. If you spread out your carbs throughout the day you will find that the heat isn't nearly as bad of a side as the lethargy (which is almost non-existant on a short cycle when ECA is taken).

As far as supp's, aside from the antioxidants, pyruvate might help to retain muscle by disturbing the pyruvate-alanine cycle. Glycerol would probably work just as well.

Andy

 

[DaMan]

I first started playing with DNP almost two years ago when most people didn't know what it was and those who did were afraid to try it. I'm not. I'm compulsive and kamakaze like that.

Anyway, I've tried just about every type of cycle you can think of. I've had my share of DNP flu as well. So I pretty much know about how much I can take and what it will do.

For someone who has never tried DNP before, I recomend you follow George's plan until you are more familiar with what the drug will do to you. Even after I completed a few cycles of DNP and thought I knew my limit I STILL caught DNP flu a time or so..

I've had the idea for the ultra short, three days cycles for a while. I first started with 400-200-200 then moved up 200mg from there. I can fairly easily do 1000-600-200 now. A BIG part of comfort on the cycle comes from your diet. I like to take my doses at night so that I don't eat carbs until at least 6 hrs after the dose. DNP peaks in the blood fairly quickly, so while on a cycle, the highest blood levels of DNP occur an hour or so after you injest it. If you can avoid eating non-fructose carbs for a while, you will be much, much, more comfortable. Even on high doses of DNP I'm fairly comfortable so long as I'm not eating massive amounts of carbs at one time. If you spread out your carbs throughout the day you will find that the heat isn't nearly as bad of a side as the lethargy (which is almost non-existant on a short cycle when ECA is taken).

As far as supp's, aside from the antioxidants, pyruvate might help to retain muscle by disturbing the pyruvate-alanine cycle. Glycerol would probably work just as well.

Andy

Good info. So what's your workout schedule like, then? Assuming you do DNP Fri, Sat, Sun, what days do you NOT lift? (I'm assuming skip Fri & Sat, Sun is ok?)

Thx.

 

[serge]

info offered is very general, nothing cutting edge there

 

[Andy13]

Good info. So what's your workout schedule like, then? Assuming you do DNP Fri, Sat, Sun, what days do you NOT lift? (I'm assuming skip Fri & Sat, Sun is ok?)

Thx.

I work out lightly after the third day. I think cardio while on DNP is pretty effective as well. Say DNP raises your metabolim by 1.5.. Then when you are doing cardio, the calories you burn will be 1.5x normal calories burned so long as you stay in aerobic respiration. DO NOT do cardio (or weights) on the first day on DNP since your glycogen stores are not depleted. Cardio during the first day or so is a sure fire way to deplete your stores. After the first day when your glycogen stores are mostly depleated, then add the LIGHT cardio if you wish.

I think it is bad, bad bad to lift weights while on DNP. That's why I like the three days so much.. It doesn't kill you entire week of weight training.

Andy

 

[DaMan]

I work out lightly after the third day. I think cardio while on DNP is pretty effective as well. Say DNP raises your metabolim by 1.5.. Then when you are doing cardio, the calories you burn will be 1.5x normal calories burned so long as you stay in aerobic respiration. DO NOT do cardio (or weights) on the first day on DNP since your glycogen stores are not depleted. Cardio during the first day or so is a sure fire way to deplete your stores. After the first day when your glycogen stores are mostly depleated, then add the LIGHT cardio if you wish.

I think it is bad, bad bad to lift weights while on DNP. That's why I like the three days so much.. It doesn't kill you entire week of weight training.

Andy

So to be precise, if you do DNP on days 5,6,7 of the week, you workout normally days 1-4, do nothing on day 5, do cardio days 6 and 7, and begin lifting again on day 1? Or did you mean you lift "at the end of the day" on day 7? I can handle missing 2 days of workout, but 3...

Gonna give it a shot in a few, lemme know if you need a labrat, I have calipers now!

 

[Andy13]

Give it a shot! Start out at a low dose and work your way up from there.

 

[Burning_Inside]

id like to know more about the lifting while on dnp thing

 

[Andy13]

It really depends on your goals and type of cycle..

If you are trying to lose fat and are doing a realitively short cycle, you should not work out (any cardio or weights) until the max dose builds up. For guys doing 3-2-1 cycles like I recomend (for the advanced DNP user) you should not do weights until day 3 (but light cardio is OK on day 2).

Doing weights in the begining of a DNP cycle is counter productive. However, weight training at the end of a cycle helps 'prime' muscles for glycogen super-compensation. This is desireable.

Andy

 

[Golfer18--old]

Im strating DNP Crystal on the 4th.

Day 1 200mg
Day 2 200mg
Day 3 200mg
Day 4 400mg
Day 5 400mg
Day 6 400mg
Day 7 400mg
Day 8 400mg

This is if I don't have any allerigc reactions. I'll be taking all the supps I need.

Andy looks ok to you? First time user.

 

[Andy13]

Im strating DNP Crystal on the 4th.

Day 1 200mg
Day 2 200mg
Day 3 200mg
Day 4 400mg
Day 5 400mg
Day 6 400mg
Day 7 400mg
Day 8 400mg

This is if I don't have any allerigc reactions. I'll be taking all the supps I need.

Andy looks ok to you? First time user.

The dosing looks logical.. There are many guys on the board with more experience with crystal than me.
Andy