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Found a scientific reason why some of you tire on caffiene

Enock

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Caron has also been studying the dopamine transporter molecules—with some surprising results. He is a biochemist who has spent a quarter century studying a class of cellular receptors known as G protein-coupled receptors. "They are one of the most important families of molecules that mediate cellular communication, and they are the receptors that define the specificity of signals," says Caron. "For example, signal transduction through G protein-coupled receptors is how we perceive light, how we perceive odors, how we perceive tastes, how our heart basically beats and how essentially many of the cells in our body function." As it turns out, the receptors for catecholamines, and specifically dopamine, are also G protein-coupled receptors, which is why Caron and his colleagues found themselves studying first neurotransmitters and then addiction. After Amara and her colleagues cloned the norepinephrine transporter gene, they followed it up, as did Caron and his colleagues, by cloning the dopamine transporter. Caron has been studying the molecule ever since. His primary tool has been "knockout" mice that are bred without the gene for the dopamine transporter molecule, which makes them unable to produce the transporter. "The absence of the transporter," says Caron, "created havoc in the brain dopamine system. It changed just about every parameter we ever looked at. The receptors were down-regulated and the storage of dopamine was almost abolished. Yet the small amount of dopamine left in the cell was more active than the big load that was there before."

Physically, the mice were smaller than average, and they seemed to stay small because they were so hyperactive that they rarely stopped to eat. Indeed, they seemed to show many of the symptoms of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), illustrating just how complicated these systems can be. When Caron and his colleagues gave cocaine or amphetamines to these mice, doing so actually calmed them, mimicking the effect of the stimulant Ritalin on children with ADHD. To Caron, this suggests that cocaine and amphetamines must also interact with the re-uptake of serotonin. In other words, when the dopamine transporter molecule is removed, stimulants may work just like Prozac. "This is a pretty controversial area," says Caron, "but we hope that we can start looking at these brain pathways and understand how serotonin interacts with the dopamine system to produce a calming effect."




In other words what I gather is that you guys receptors are burnt out. Now its causing the calming effect as described above.
 
Very interesting. I have always believed that caffeine causes temporary insulin resistance and hypoglycemia.
 
A very interesting article!

I was always under the impression that adrenal exaustion was the main reason. Given that the adrenal glands are the only visceral organs of the body with sympathetic and parasympathetic innervation, it would stand to reason that prolonged activation via either system could feasibly result in a cause-and-effect of overstimulation and subsequent tiredness. I still wonder if this is part of the reason why those with chronic fatigue (myself included) who use stimulant stacks wind up nearly dependant upon them after only a short period of time. However, excellent articles like the one above shed new and different light on the mechanisms perhaps responsible.
 
Facinating....

Apparently the caffeine effect on Brain receptors can be simply rectified with Tyrosine. IMO, the constriction in the brain from caffeine is also the major reason for caffeine causing migraines in individuals

BACKDOC.....Chronic fatigue is via another route of overstimulation of the adrenals, not vie brain receptors. It is also a reduction of ATP functioning at a cellular level.
 
It seems like there is more than one kind of caffeine crash. I'm basing this on my extensive experience with ECA. Sometimes if I take a very large dose, I feel literally sleepy, like an insulin rush. Other times, I will lift intensely and be very energetic until I just feel completely spent. I have taken tyrosine to counteract the "spent" feeling. The sleepy feeling seems to be preventable by ingesting some whey and/or glycerine at the same time. I think it helps to stabilize blood sugar. I like ABB's Nitro Speed for this.

A long time ago I tried to do a recarb after a keto diet while using ECA. It caused some wierd insulin rushes.
 
Re: Facinating....

TYPE A said:
BACKDOC.....Chronic fatigue is via another route of overstimulation of the adrenals, not vie brain receptors. It is also a reduction of ATP functioning at a cellular level.

I was wanting to point out a finding I have made that some of the symptoms seem to worsen when on stimulant stacks, usually those with caffeine included as an ingredient. I would likely confine this more to adrenal stimulants rather than solely to neurochemicals such as caffeine. You are correct from my view that caffeine works through an entirely different mechanism. This has been demonstrated in some of the studies done (some of which have shown nerve cell growth in the presence of caffeine). Please pardon my error of omission.

The summation of both types and/or different mechanisms of chemical excitation has for some the exact same cumulative effect of increased tiredness/symtom aggravation. As to the ATP connection, I feel this is a secondary effect from a deeper more complex physiological mechanism, evidenced by NADP therapy, which has helped some people but certainly not all of them. In my own findings, I was under the impression for awhile that Coenzyme A levels, when depleted, was the factor responsible for failure of CoQ10 with chronic fatigue patients, but this has not proven to be the case, as supplemental CoA has only offered limited benefit long term. Since there are many variants of chronic fatigue, the ultimate benefit is in isolating the causative factor. No big news here. Whereas energy supplements have helped in the short run, they still fall short over time. Currently I am examining a further extent of chronic fatigue in which an overworked liver is perhaps harboring some blame for some categories of chronic fatigue. This may explain why some supplements such as milk thistle, small doses of ALA and even calcium d-glucarate have appeared to work well in conjunction with the supplement trends in treating some of the known varieties of chronic fatigue.

Oh well, just some thoughts.
 
Re: Re: Facinating....

BackDoc said:


The summation of both types and/or different mechanisms of chemical excitation has for some the exact same cumulative effect of increased tiredness/symtom aggravation. As to the ATP connection, I feel this is a secondary effect from a deeper more complex physiological mechanism, evidenced by NADP therapy, which has helped some people but certainly not all of them. In my own findings, I was under the impression for awhile that Coenzyme A levels, when depleted, was the factor responsible for failure of CoQ10 with chronic fatigue patients, but this has not proven to be the case, as supplemental CoA has only offered limited benefit long term. Since there are many variants of chronic fatigue, the ultimate benefit is in isolating the causative factor. No big news here. Whereas energy supplements have helped in the short run, they still fall short over time. Currently I am examining a further extent of chronic fatigue in which an overworked liver is perhaps harboring some blame for some categories of chronic fatigue. This may explain why some supplements such as milk thistle, small doses of ALA and even calcium d-glucarate have appeared to work well in conjunction with the supplement trends in treating some of the known varieties of chronic fatigue.

Oh well, just some thoughts.

I agree, excellent analysis!

Just found this piece of information:

Caffeine-induced impairment of glucose tolerance is abolished by -adrenergic receptor blockade in humans
Farah S. L. Thong and Terry E. Graham

Department of Human Biology and Nutritional Sciences, University of Guelph, Guelph, Ontario, Canada N1G 2W1

The caffeine-induced impairment of insulin action is commonly attributed to adenosine receptor (AR) antagonism in skeletal muscle. However, epinephrine, a potent inhibitor of insulin actions, is increased after caffeine ingestion. We tested the hypothesis that the insulin antagonistic effects of
caffeine are mediated by epinephrine, and not by AR antagonism, in seven healthy men. On four separate occasions, they received 1) dextrose (placebo, PL), 2) 5 mg/kg caffeine (CAF), 3) 80 mg of propranolol (PR), and 4) 5 mg/kg caffeine + 80 mg of propranolol (CAF + PR) before an oral glucose tolerance test (OGTT). Blood glucose was similar among trials before and during the
OGTT. Plasma epinephrine was elevated (P < 0.05) in CAF and CAF + PR. Areas under the insulin and C-peptide curves were 42 and 39% greater (P < 0.05), respectively, in CAF than in PL, PR, and CAF + PR. In the presence of propranolol (CAF + PR), these responses were similar to PL and PR. These
data suggest that the insulin antagonistic effects of caffeine in vivo are mediated by elevated epinephrine rather than by peripheral AR antagonism.
 
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