For those who SUPPORT ISRAEL

[Sushi X]

why do you die hard pro-zionists support israel so blindly and with such passion? i'm not trying to bash anyone i just want to know the truth. be honest and upfront. if it's because you hate arabs then say it. i want to know.

you can ask why you think i'm anti-zionist. well, i'm not. i'm nuetral in the matter, i feel we need to be more fair and justified in our dealings with the peoples of the middle east.

 

[Lao Tzu]

well, i'm new to the issue and i, like you (no offense) flip flop as new info comes in but what i can garner is this.


Israels human rights record against muslims is no worse, and is probably better than most of the countries that condemn it.

Its government is more free than most mid east countries. Israel has freedom of speech & democracy.

While Middle easterners make up 20% of the population, they have won about 0.2% of nobel prizes for science. Jews & Izraelis, on the other hand make up about 0.2% of the population & have won about 20% of nobel prizes

Even with no oil and a small geographic area, Israel has a higher per capita income than 90% of Mid east countries.


I don't hate Arabs personally but you could say i hate what middle eastern culture seems to stand for from what i've seen. illiteracy, double standards, racism, sexism, religious fanaticism, anti semitism, anti-scientific development, superstition.

I guess this makes me racist. I can live with that.

 

[JohnyJuice]

well, i'm new to the issue and i, like you (no offense) flip flop as new info comes in but what i can garner is this.


Israels human rights record against muslims is no worse, and is probably better than most of the countries that condemn it.

Its government is more free than most mid east countries. Israel has freedom of speech & democracy.

While Middle easterners make up 20% of the population, they have won about 0.2% of nobel prizes for science. Jews & Izraelis, on the other hand make up about 0.2% of the population & have won about 20% of nobel prizes

Even with no oil and a small geographic area, Israel has a higher per capita income than 90% of Mid east countries.


I don't hate Arabs personally but you could say i hate what middle eastern culture seems to stand for from what i've seen. illiteracy, double standards, racism, sexism, anti semitism, anti-scientific development, superstition.

I guess this makes me racist. I can live with that.

That about sums it up for me. I dont instantly agree with everything Israel does. To me, they seem like an Un-neutered version of our country, stuck in that shit whole called the middle east.

 

[Lao Tzu]

Also Israel, with only 6 million people, is the only mid eastern country technologically advanced enough to develop nuclear weapons which they did 36 years ago.

 

[The Almighty]

Not to mention many of the latest scientific achievements in medicine, technology, etc have come from Israelis.

 

[2Thick]

You people are confusing Israelis with Jewish people.

One is a nationality and the other is a religion.

Most of those awards were won by amazingingly intelligent Jewish folk, not necessarily Israelis.

 

[The Almighty]

Most of those awards were won by amazingingly intelligent Jewish folk, not necessarily Israelis.

It must be a full moon...2Thick is responding to me.

I took that into consideration, but when I last looked at the figures many of the award recievers were actually jews from Israel. They make a lot of contributions to the scientific community.

 

[Lao Tzu]

I know. But Israel has 40% of all the Jews who are currently alive living in it, so the comparison is acceptable. Its like comparing Islam with the Middle east.

Even so, there are only 14 million jews alive and they have won around 20-25% of all nobel prizes. That is a very advanced group of people, statistically they should only have won 0.2% in regards to their population size compared to the world with 6.2 billion.

 

[VicTusDeuS]

You people are confusing Israelis with Jewish people.

One is a nationality and the other is a religion.

Most of those awards were won by amazingingly intelligent Jewish folk, not necessarily Israelis.

Very true

 

[The Almighty]

Military

1950 - Israeli Air Force - The creation of the Israeli Air Force started with the vision of two people: Aharon Remez from Britain and Heyman Shamir from America.

1960 - Mirage Helicopter - The Israeli Mirages were very successful against the Syrian MIGs. Israeli Pilot Yoram Agmon was the first pilot in the world to down a MIG.

1970 - Merkava Tank - The Merkava tank was designed for maximum crew protection and was the best tank of its time. It weighed 70 tons and could go 35 miles per hour.

1980 - Shavit Rocket - Shavit rockets are used by the Israel Space Agency to launch communications and military spy satellites.

1990 - Arrow Missile - Arrow Missiles are being made by Israel for the US Military to replace the obsolete Patriot rocket system anti-tactical ballistic missile.

Agriculture

1950 - Kibbutz - Regional cooperation in agriculture saved expenses by common use of farming equipment, warehouses, schools, clinics, communal halls, shops, etc.

1960 - Trickle Drip Irrigation - Trickle Drip Irrigation was a method of watering crops by delivering the correct quantities of water to the roots of plants, thereby not wasting any precious water.

1970 - Aquaculture - Israel is breeding different types of fish to produce new species of fish, such as the: Carp, Tilapia, Mullet, Catfish, Fresh Water Prawn, Australian Crayfish, Sea Bream, Sea Bass, Trout, and Pink Salmon.

1980 - Judea-Samaria - Israeli introduction of modern farming methods to the mountainous Judea-Samaria region has resulted in widespread use of modern irrigation, effective application of fertilizers, better pest control, and planting of upgraded seed varieties.

1990 - Bio-High Tech - Israel has been among the top three nations in the world in Biological research publications.

Medicine

1950 - Medical Schooling - Hebrew University in Jerusalem and Technion in Haifa were established.

1960 - Doctors - Israel has the greatest ratio of doctors in the world - one to about every 450 people.

1970 - Transplants - Great strides in Israeli medicine allowed for the transplants of retina, kidney, pancreas, liver, heart and lung.

1980 - Hadassah Medical Org. - Hadassah Medical Org. received international recognition for its research in the fields of bone marrow transplantation, immunology, oncology, cardiac surgery, and AIDS.

1990 - Aerospace Medicine - Hadassah and Hebrew University have been working with NASA to see the effect of gravity on mammal reproduction in outer space.

Conveniences

1950 - Solar Energy - Israelis have taken solar energy to the next level finding ways to harness the power of the sun for use in people's daily lives.

1980 - Astra SPX Business Jet - IAI and Galaxy Business jets developed the Astra SPX aircraft. It was the private jet of choice for the U.S. Air Force Air National Guard because it was unbeatable in the distances it reached and had the highest speed of any aircraft in its class.

1990 - Computers - High tech companies from around the world like Intel and 3Com are investing in Israel. Israel's silicon valley has produced its own big companies like: Check Point (network security), Mirabilis (internet chatting; acquired by AOL), Comverse Technology (voicemail for cellular phones), Gilat (broadband internet access), Opal, Orbit, and Galileo (chips).

Resources:

Silver, Edward, "Israel: Tech's New Promised Land" Los Angeles Times, July 12, 1999, p. C3.

ThinkQuest, "A Light Unto the Nations" israeltech.pack36.com

 

[~HOUNDOG~]

Military

1950 - Israeli Air Force - The creation of the Israeli Air Force started with the vision of two people: Aharon Remez from Britain and Heyman Shamir from America.

************-started with american support.


1960 - Mirage Helicopter - The Israeli Mirages were very successful against the Syrian MIGs. Israeli Pilot Yoram Agmon was the first pilot in the world to down a MIG.

*********---Mirages developed by France.

1970 - Merkava Tank - The Merkava tank was designed for maximum crew protection and was the best tank of its time. It weighed 70 tons and could go 35 miles per hour.

*********---Can't argue here. No longer the best but really exceptional for urban combat.

1980 - Shavit Rocket - Shavit rockets are used by the Israel Space Agency to launch communications and military spy satellites.


************--Developed with american help and technological knowledge.

1990 - Arrow Missile - Arrow Missiles are being made by Israel for the US Military to replace the obsolete Patriot rocket system anti-tactical ballistic missile.


****************Co-developed with america NOT to replace patriot. Patriot is not obsolete; it was NEVER designed to be used against missiles. It has also been upgraded from PAC-1 to PAC-2 and PAC-3. PAC-3 missiles have recently shot down an AL-SAMOUD missile.

 

[Sushi X]

so far only a handfull have responded and thanks to those who have. i'm waiting on p0ink. he's the main one.

nordstrom, you're not a racist. i agree with what you said but i also feel the same on the flip side. it's just, for me anyways, a fairness issue. you don't make allies by blindly supporting one nation in a region. we have to deal with them equally.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Israel is a democracy. It is the only middle eastern country where a native born Arab can vote.

They are a tough people, having been attacked half a dozen times in under 60 years, and emerging victorious each time.

Israel alone had the balls to attack Iraq's nuke facility over 20 years ago. Their courage surpassed even ours, as we condemned them.

Israel, while seeminlgy brutal on Palestinains, shows remarkable restraint comapred to Muslim countries. Jordan slaughtered about 30,000 Palestinians when they sought to claim some of Jordan's land as their own.. ..Syria's treament of them has been likewise.

At the beginning of the last intifada in Gaza, there was a pouring of refugees into Egypt as well as Israel. Egypt machine gunned the refugees and put down the uprising. Israel has at least tried to deal with the problem humanely.

Thus despite international condemnation Israel treats Palestinians better than any other country in the region .

Most people who come on here and rant against Israel are woefully uninformed.

 

[Lao Tzu]

so far only a handfull have responded and thanks to those who have. i'm waiting on p0ink. he's the main one.

nordstrom, you're not a racist. i agree with what you said but i also feel the same on the flip side. it's just, for me anyways, a fairness issue. you don't make allies by blindly supporting one nation in a region. we have to deal with them equally.

Well, show me a middle eastern country that can find the resources in itself to survive like Israel has. With almost no oil, they make more money than most countries sitting on a hundred billion barrels. With 6 million people, they manage to survive while surrounded by over 1 billion enemies, always emerging the victor. With 0.2% of the population, they win 20% of all nobel prizes for scientific discovery.

Show me a mid east country with freedom of speech, a literacy rate in the high 90 percentile & democracy. Where science is revered instead of blind religious fervor.

And, like Skywalker said, off all the mideastern countries, Israel has the most reason to be a bastard and they are still one of the most humane.

It just seems that if all this is true, that Israel deserves to be supported over other mid east countries.

2Thick-
I know Israel is a state & the jews are a race & religion but if i said 'the jews are accomplished people' instead of 'the Israelis are accomplished people' some people would take that bad.

 

[Lao Tzu]

not only that, but right now the Arab League is protesting the war in Iraq.

To me it seems like the Arab League is protesting a war so they can keep the greatest killer of Muslims in power because they are anti-semites & buy into conspiracy theories.

So for me the literate democracy of accomplished people wins out over anti semitic illiterate fundamentalists.

 

[ariolanine]

I don't agree with the way Israel was created, but it is here to stay. The muslims have to decide how they are going to deal with it. There are 23 muslim controlled nations and another 10 -15 where muslims are the majority. Why can't the Jews have one nation of their own? I think it's only fair. And like I said, Israel is going nowhere. They have shown amazing restraint in their dealings with terrorists and this proves they are in for the long haul. Even if we cut off all support Israel will continue to exist.

 

[the nature boy]

Re: Re: For those who SUPPORT ISRAEL

I don't agree with the way Israel was created, but it is here to stay.

this is true. eventually those people are going to have to live with one another, or they will eventually destroy themselves, and all of us as well.

 

[dballer]

pointing the finger at Israel is not pointing the finger at jews as a whole. That is the misconception that American jews have. They feel that any ill feelings towards Israel means ill feelings toward them. But that is not true. The fact is that Israel is guilty of war crimes against us and against a bunch of others. They have been busted sending spies to our country as well as Israelis busted bringing in attack chemicals such as anthrax.

Flying an airplane into a building is really horrible, but bringing anthrax into this country should be treated the same. But you and a few others choose to defend?? I just do not understand.

If Israel came here to attack us on our soil, would you then take a side against them? But as long as they are only spying and sending over anthrax it is ok.. you will still defend them?

 

[JohnyJuice]

pointing the finger at Israel is not pointing the finger at jews as a whole. That is the misconception that American jews have. They feel that any ill feelings towards Israel means ill feelings toward them. But that is not true. The fact is that Israel is guilty of war crimes against us and against a bunch of others. They have been busted sending spies to our country as well as Israelis busted bringing in attack chemicals such as anthrax.

Flying an airplane into a building is really horrible, but bringing anthrax into this country should be treated the same. But you and a few others choose to defend?? I just do not understand.

If Israel came here to attack us on our soil, would you then take a side against them? But as long as they are only spying and sending over anthrax it is ok.. you will still defend them?

If Israel attacked us, i would be all for teaching them a lesson. I am an American first. YOu know me Dballer, i am pretty level headed and very patriotic.

 

[dballer]

If Israel attacked us, i would be all for teaching them a lesson. I am an American first. YOu know me Dballer, i am pretty level headed and very patriotic.

I could not disagree with one word of this.

 

[FreakMonster]

Israel is a democracy. It is the only middle eastern country where a native born Arab can vote.

Matt,
You are very misinformed. Israel IS NOT A DEMOCRACY!!

 

[dballer]

Matt,
You are very misinformed. Israel IS NOT A DEMOCRACY!!

Challenging the Old Lie: Israel is Not a Democracy


By Rami Demirdjian, Tufts Daily (Tufts U.), 12/08/97


(U-WIRE) MEDFORD, Mass. -- "Every Arab in Palestine who had left his town or village after Nov. 29, 1947, was liable to be classified as an absentee under the regulations.... The 30,000 Arabs who fled from one place to another within Israel, but who never left the country were also liable to have their property declared absentee. Any individual who may have gone to Beirut or Bethlehem for a one day visit during the latter days of the [British] mandate was automatically an absentee"

Don Peretz's Israel and the Palestine Arabs
It seems that the acts of discrimination are an inherent element of Israeli legislation. In 1950, the Knesset legislated the two most important laws in the state of Israel: the "Law of Return" and the "Absentees' Property Law." The first law allows the right to any Jew to immigrate, to settle in Israel, and to receive citizenship. Through the second law, the overwhelming majority of the Palestinian Arab residents of the territories under Israel's sovereignty (pre-1967 border), is denied its right to property in Israel. These laws were instituted to alienate Arab land and property owners. It is through these non-democratic laws that the apartheid system -- one that is strikingly similar to South Africa's pre-Mandela, white supremacist regime -- was legislated in Israel.

The legislation of Israel is therefore based upon theocratic or racial qualifications. Moreover, in 1960, the Knesset enacted the "Basic Law." This particular law grants the Jewish National Fund (JNF) the right to define what the state land is. The constitution of the JNF clearly stipulates the inalienable right of the Jews to the land, the ability of a Zionist settler to lease to no one but a Jew, and that only Jewish workers may be employed in Zionist colonies.

This law brings another racist dimension to the problem: not only are the Palestinian people robbed of their land and property, as the "Absentees' Property Law" allows, they also lose the chance of being employed on this land.

Following the logic of these laws, Israel is far from being "the only democracy in the Middle East," as its defenders claim. They should therefore stop shouting the old lie because a large number of human beings, namely the Palestinians, are simply not being treated equally. Netanyahu's administration continues to follow the Zionist tradition of the dispossession of Palestinian property and livelihood and the illegal settlements on Palestinian land.

How dare, and under which assumption of superiority, can Netanyahu and the state of Israel treat other human beings as slaves of a racist system that forbids the Palestinian people to live on a land that belongs to them? A peace treaty cannot follow when the Palestinians are still not considered as equal human beings and when Israel continues its illegal settlement policies. A viable peace treaty must involve the concept of equality. If Israel wants to enjoy peace with its Arab neighbors, it must first accept Arabs as equal human beings, learn to respect them, and not foolishly try to get all the "security" and "economic" benefits of "peace" without giving something in return.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Matt,
You are very misinformed. Israel IS NOT A DEMOCRACY!!

Right. Neither is the US, technically. Challenging the LAw of Return is bizarre, since there is little doubt to the historical accuracy of the diaspora. Palestinians in Israle have teh highest birth rate in the world in hopes that they will one day vote themselves into power.

From Dballer's cut and paste (do you even read this stuff?)

Any individual who may have gone to Beirut or Bethlehem for a one day visit during the latter days of the [British] mandate was automatically an absentee"

This was a British mandate in 1947, not something the Israelis did.

Israel = Parliamentary democracy.

 

[primetime21]

You people are confusing Israelis with Jewish people.

One is a nationality and the other is a religion.

Most of those awards were won by amazingingly intelligent Jewish folk, not necessarily Israelis.

israelis and jews are one in the same. I am a jew who is married to a jew. We dont differentiate between ourselves.

 

[primetime21]

israel is not a democracy? that is a good one. Clearly, when you make stupid points youre anti-israel stance looks weaker and weaker. There is a parliament AND arabs are allowed to vote.

Arabs are allowed to go to school in israel and learn side by side in universities. Would a jew be welcome to learn in syria or iraq? i dont think so. While israelis are toughs SOBs they are saints in comparison to their neighbors.

 

[dballer]

israelis and jews are one in the same.

This is Classic!!! So now you are the voice of jews???

You sure do have a big fuckin ego.

 

[Lao Tzu]

Following the logic of these laws, Israel is far from being "the only democracy in the Middle East," as its defenders claim. They should therefore stop shouting the old lie because a large number of human beings, namely the Palestinians, are simply not being treated equally. Netanyahu's administration continues to follow the Zionist tradition of the dispossession of Palestinian property and livelihood and the illegal settlements on Palestinian land.

How dare, and under which assumption of superiority, can Netanyahu and the state of Israel treat other human beings as slaves of a racist system that forbids the Palestinian people to live on a land that belongs to them? A peace treaty cannot follow when the Palestinians are still not considered as equal human beings and when Israel continues its illegal settlement policies. A viable peace treaty must involve the concept of equality. If Israel wants to enjoy peace with its Arab neighbors, it must first accept Arabs as equal human beings, learn to respect them, and not foolishly try to get all the "security" and "economic" benefits of "peace" without giving something in return.

any article about Israel written by someone named Rami Demirdjian must be taken with a grain of salt.

Not only that, but the idea that Arabs will learn to respect Israelis if they treat other Muslims respectfully is a lie. Muslims are repressed visciously by other muslims and there are no complaints among the Arab League. It is only when the jews repress muslims that complaints occur.

 

[dballer]

any article about Israel written by someone named Rami Demirdjian must be taken with a grain of salt.

All of the broadcasting stations (CNN, FOX, ABC, NBC..etc..) are run by jews.. they report on the Arabs.. does this same rule apply??

 

[ariolanine]

Muslims are repressed visciously by other muslims and there are no complaints among the Arab League. It is only when the jews repress muslims that complaints occur.

Excellent and very accurate point.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Not only that, but the idea that Arabs will learn to respect Israelis if they treat other Muslims respectfully is a lie. Muslims are repressed visciously by other muslims and there are no complaints among the Arab League. It is only when the jews repress muslims that complaints occur.

Bingo!

Israel is far from blameless in this situation.

BUT

Using the Palestinian refugees as an example - these are the people often cited as victims of Israeli oppression / murder / cleansing whatever.

However, how did Jordan and Syria treat them? They butchered them in 5-digit numbers. And they are of common ethnic descent and religious background.

Since the intifada started, Israel has attempted to use force in areas where they *ssupect* terrorist supporters are. Have they killed innocent people? In all likelihood. But they have also kiled a lot of terrorists, and Israel prevents the majority of would be suicide bombers.

When the last intifada started and refugees tried to flee to Egypt, they were again machine gunned. Israel is the most civilized nation in the region by a factor of 100.

What have the surrounding Muslim countries produced? Israel has no oil at all, many other countries are floating on it. Israel produces scientific breakthroughs, other countries in the region export terrorism and dictatorship.

Even with teh dubious claims of Israel not being a democracy, their political process involves far more citizens than anyone else in the area.

yes, we give tremendous foreign aid to Israel, and in return we Yet the benefit of their industry (much of our military optical equipment is Israeli developed, for example), and a strategic partner in teh region. What are we getting for our investment in Egypt?

Israel is far from perfect. But given where they are and who surrounds them, their actions are reasonable beyond a doubt, and the criticisms on here are weak.

 

[the nature boy]

well then why does the US deal with all these horrible arab governments if we care so much about democracy with the iraqi's?

 

[FreakMonster]

Right. Neither is the US, technically. Challenging the LAw of Return is bizarre, since there is little doubt to the historical accuracy of the diaspora. Palestinians in Israle have teh highest birth rate in the world in hopes that they will one day vote themselves into power.

From Dballer's cut and paste (do you even read this stuff?)

Any individual who may have gone to Beirut or Bethlehem for a one day visit during the latter days of the [British] mandate was automatically an absentee"

This was a British mandate in 1947, not something the Israelis did.

Israel = Parliamentary democracy.

But in the US everyone has equal rights regardless of religion or ethnic origin, but in Israel everyone does not have equal rights.

 

[FreakMonster]

israel is not a democracy? that is a good one. Clearly, when you make stupid points youre anti-israel stance looks weaker and weaker. There is a parliament AND arabs are allowed to vote.

Arabs are allowed to go to school in israel and learn side by side in universities. Would a jew be welcome to learn in syria or iraq? i dont think so. While israelis are toughs SOBs they are saints in comparison to their neighbors.

Supporters of Israel perpetuate the myth that Israel is a democracy. The question that needs to be asked is "a democracy for whom?"

Countries or people who brag about or harp on "democracy" are always anything but democratic.

Americans need to stop calling Israel a democracy. It is a fascist, racist state that is worse than the former apartheid state in South Africa and the racism experienced by African Americans in the history of the south in the U.S.

By the way we are talking about Israel here not Syria or Iraq. So stay on the subject!!!!!!

 

[Lao Tzu]

well then why does the US deal with all these horrible arab governments if we care so much about democracy with the iraqi's?

could be an attempt to reform opinion in the middle east

according to the council on foreign relations

http://www.terrorismanswers.com/causes/regimes.html


Does America support democracy in the Middle East?

To some degree, but often not at the expense of important U.S. strategic interests such as oil, regional stability, and the Arab-Israeli peace process. Experts say support for corrupt autocrats is a leading cause of anti-Americanism in the Arab world



The attempt to bring humanitarian aid, development & democracy to Afghanistan & Iraq might be an attempt to reconcile with the Arab world.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

All of the broadcasting stations (CNN, FOX, ABC, NBC..etc..) are run by jews.. they report on the Arabs.. does this same rule apply??

Umm.....I don't think that's true....

CNN? Founded by Ted Turner. Not a Jew. Now owned by AOLTW, a company headed for a long time by Steve Case (not a Jew). I don't think the new CEO is Jewish either.

Fox? Rupert Murdoch? LOL! Not a Jew.

ABC, owned by Disney, CEO Michael Eisner, who is Jewish.

NBC is owned by GE, which is headed by Jeff Immelt, not a Jew. Longtime CEO Jack Welch was also not Jewish.

MSNBC is owned by GE and Microsoft, which is headed by Steve Ballmer, also not Jewish. (Nor is Bill Gates)

I don't really see a lot of Jews at the top of those emdia powerhouses. United Press International, (UPI) is owned by a Saudi Prince. So what?

The media is not Jewish-overrun. The largest oublicly traded newspaper corporation is Gannett, which is not Jewish owned either.

I'm not exactly sure where you were going with this.

 

[the nature boy]

The attempt to bring humanitarian aid, development & democracy to Afghanistan & Iraq might be an attempt to reconcile with the Arab world.

I don't think that's going to happen.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

But in the US everyone has equal rights regardless of religion or ethnic origin, but in Israel everyone does not have equal rights.

Religious rights?

Well, jerusalem is a historically significant site to Jews, Christians, and Muslims. if Israel was so intent on denying people religious rights, they could just close it off. yet they don't. It's sectioned off, but the holy sites in each major religion are available for all...


Equal rights?

Well, perhaps some regional context is appropriate. Arabs can serve in the Israeli military, so can Christians. Arbas can vote, although I would agree they aer basically second class citizens. let;s try this one:

How do you suppose a jew fares in

Iraq?
Iran?
Saudi Arabia?
Lebanon?
Syria?


Would you rather be an Arab in Israel, or a Jew in Saudi Arabia?

 

[the nature boy]

Religious rights?

Well, jerusalem is a historically significant site to Jews, Christians, and Muslims. if Israel was so intent on denying people religious rights, they could just close it off. yet they don't. It's sectioned off, but the holy sites in each major religion are available for all...


Equal rights?

Well, perhaps some regional context is appropriate. Arabs can serve in the Israeli military, so can Christians. Arbas can vote, although I would agree they aer basically second class citizens. let;s try this one:

How do you suppose a jew fares in

Iraq?
Iran?
Saudi Arabia?
Lebanon?
Syria?


Would you rather be an Arab in Israel, or a Jew in Saudi Arabia?

I pulled this off of the christian science monitor. sounds like the jews in iran have it real rough <sarcasm>. thanks for once again educating us matt.

http://csmweb2.emcweb.com/durable/1998/02/03/intl/intl.3.html

 

[2Thick]

How do you suppose a jew fares in

Iraq?
Iran?
Saudi Arabia?
Lebanon?
Syria?


Would you rather be an Arab in Israel, or a Jew in Saudi Arabia?

Jewish folk do pretty well in Iran.

One of the top Israeli gov't officials is an Iranian Jew.

Many of the wealthy Iranians in LA are Iranian Jews.

Of course, they see themselves are Persians first, then Jewish, but they are not repressed like they are in Arab countries.

 

[FreakMonster]

Religious rights?

Well, jerusalem is a historically significant site to Jews, Christians, and Muslims. if Israel was so intent on denying people religious rights, they could just close it off. yet they don't. It's sectioned off, but the holy sites in each major religion are available for all...


Equal rights?

Well, perhaps some regional context is appropriate. Arabs can serve in the Israeli military, so can Christians. Arbas can vote, although I would agree they aer basically second class citizens. let;s try this one:

How do you suppose a jew fares in

Iraq?
Iran?
Saudi Arabia?
Lebanon?
Syria?


Would you rather be an Arab in Israel, or a Jew in Saudi Arabia?

I think your right on the voting part but lets face it Arabs in Israel have less rights than Jews. For example, my personal favorite is the Israeli habit of denying any and all building permits to palestinians. That way, when a palestinian's home is destroyed, he can't build another one, and if he does, the Jews claim that it is "justified" to bulldoze it.

Yet one more dirty jewish tactic to rob the natives of their land.

What did the Jews expect, to just march right in and slaughter everything like they did with canaan?

Muslim and Christian citizens of Israel do not have equal rights with regards to military service, the extensive social benefits available to veterans of Israeli military service, or even in terms of Israeli tax rates imposed on Arab citizens and Israeli government expenditures in Arab communities within Israel. There are many other rights that Arabs do not have that Jews have.

Matt,
We are NOT talking about how Jews fair in Arab countries. Don't try to change the arguement around. We are talking about how Arabs are treated in Israel.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Matt,
We are NOT talking about how Jews fair in Arab countries. Don't try to change the arguement around. We are talking about how Arabs are treated in Israel.

I'm not changing it. I am giving it context. I think we'd agree that Jews and Arabs/Muslims are at each other's throats in the Middle East.

Arabs are second class citizens in Israel, the Jewish homeland. I admit this. They have limited rights, though many voet and many serve in the Israeli military, albeit in less than elite roles.

But, right nearby in the Arab homeland, Saudi Arabia, Jews are not even allowed to enter the country.

I'd rather be an Arab in teh Jews' homeland than vice versa. So would we all. And that is telling.

 

[FreakMonster]

I'm not changing it. I am giving it context. I think we'd agree that Jews and Arabs/Muslims are at each other's throats in the Middle East.

Yes I agree

Arabs are second class citizens in Israel, the Jewish homeland. I admit this. They have limited rights, though many voet and many serve in the Israeli military, albeit in less than elite roles.

Matt,
I don't agree with Arabs being able to serve in the military. Military service is compulsory for all Jews except for the ultra orthodox (who still get the same privileges),but Arabs are banned from joining the Israeli Defense Forces, even though they make up one-fifth of the population -- a considerably larger fraction than blacks in America.

Also only four percent of government employees are Palestinian, and not a single Palestinian has ever become a cabinet minister in the Israeli government. In the 120-member Knesset, Palestinians hold only ten seats.
[/QUOTE]