First Cycle

[johnjosephholly]

Male, 25 y.o., 175 lbs, 12% bf, lifting consistently 3 years.
diet: 4200 calories daily in 6 meals, 300 grams protein, plenty of fruits and veggies, good cardio.

Goal: put on good mass without getting over 190lbs (have to make a weight class for kickboxing) and kick some ass!

I need some input that isn't from someone trying to sell me something.

week 1-8 Sustanon 450mg weekly
week 1-10 HCG 250i.u. twice weekly
week 3-15 Tamoxifen 20mg daily
week 3-15 Proviron 25mg daily
Week 11-13 HCG 1500i.u. every 5 days

Should I take the tamoxifen and proviron during the cycle? I have it to reduce the fat gain and water reten, but I don't know if I need it at 450mg Sus/week. This is what I think is sensible now, but I am always learning. I have all the products, I am just trying to get things straight before I commit.

 

[rudy76]

Male, 25 y.o., 175 lbs, 12% bf, lifting consistently 3 years.
diet: 4200 calories daily in 6 meals, 300 grams protein, plenty of fruits and veggies, good cardio.

Goal: put on good mass without getting over 190lbs (have to make a weight class for kickboxing) and kick some ass!

I need some input that isn't from someone trying to sell me something.

week 1-8 Sustanon 450mg weekly
week 1-10 HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - 250i.u. twice weekly
week 3-15 Tamoxifen 20mg daily
week 3-15 Proviron 25mg daily
Week 11-13 HCG 1500i.u. every 5 days

Should I take the tamoxifen and proviron during the cycle? I have it to reduce the fat gain and water reten, but I don't know if I need it at 450mg Sus/week. This is what I think is sensible now, but I am always learning. I have all the products, I am just trying to get things straight before I commit.

Remove 3-15 Tamoxifen 20mg daily. Use it only in case of gyno or sore nips.

Run proviron 1-9, no more, up dose to 50 ed if you have it.

Don't run H.C.G 11-13 since you would have already run it the entire cycle.

You can use Tamoxifen for P.C.T but you should add in some OTC supps and / or clomid.

 

[johnjosephholly]

Why do I remove the tamoxifen, is it because I need the some estrogen? If I use the 250i.u. HCG twice weekly, do my testes need not be "shocked" back into producing testosterone? Thank you for the quick reply.

 

[rudy76]

No - they won't need to be shocked because they will never have been off if you take the H.C.G all cycle long.

You do need estrogen to make gains - correct. Tamoxifen is powerful enough to stop most gynecomastia and to limit gains. Keep it as a last resort or use it as part of P.C.T

 

[GUARDIAN]

I would also drop the proviron. I would save it for when your gains start diminishing with test, imo.

 

[xrsist]

how are you with the thought of injecting ED?
prop is popular among fighters due to lean no bloat gains

 

[johnjosephholly]

I don't mind injecting propinate everyday, but it will take another 45 days to get it. Also, I heard propinate is very painful. Does propinate really cause less bloat though? I thought test is test no matter what the ester, and that the ester only slows the release. I will consider it for my next cycle.

 

[GUARDIAN]

I don't mind injecting propinate everyday, but it will take another 45 days to get it. Also, I heard propinate is very painful. it can be but u can heat up the oil to eliminate that Does propinate really cause less bloat though? it does for me and many others I thought test is test no matter what the ester, and that the ester only slows the release. I will consider it for my next cycle.

^^^^

 

[702daswoll1]

I would also drop the proviron. I would save it for when your gains start diminishing with test, imo.

Yup.. What he said... Hey 8and20 lemme borrow dem wheels for a minute.

 

[GUARDIAN]

they fly 1st class only when going to vegas and they stay at the belagio!

Yup.. What he said... Hey 8and20 lemme borrow dem wheels for a minute.

 

[702daswoll1]

they fly 1st class only when going to vegas and they stay at the belagio!

Im in Vegas actually have i told you that already?

 

[GUARDIAN]

Im in Vegas actually have i told you that already?

i figured it out by the 702

smart eh??? LOL

 

[xrsist]

I don't mind injecting propinate everyday, but it will take another 45 days to get it. Also, I heard propinate is very painful. Does propinate really cause less bloat though? I thought test is test no matter what the ester, and that the ester only slows the release. I will consider it for my next cycle.

it can be painful but there are ways to help eliminate it
doesnt bloat me or many other guys i know up

 

[johnjosephholly]

Thanx guys

 

[johnjosephholly]

update:

end of my third week, I gained 15 lbs. so far. I know a lot is water weight. Is this much gain, this rapidly, normal?

strength increase is awesome though.

also, injections hurt sooo bad. but, there are so many threads about the lump, heating the oil, massaging, and brief cardio to thin out the shot. i have minimized the pain i think, but it is still bad. i had to switch which days i squat becuse my glute hurt. i am squatting the same day as i inject because the pain comes about 24 hours later, and lasts for at least 3 days.

it is really hard to eat enough. I can break 3000 clean calories a day, but no more.

 

[wootoom]

xrsist has good points

 

[GUARDIAN]

update:

end of my third week, I gained 15 lbs. so far. I know a lot is water weight. Is this much gain, this rapidly, normal? Yes. is your bf remaining constant?

strength increase is awesome though.

also, injections hurt sooo bad. but, there are so many threads about the lump, heating the oil, massaging, and brief cardio to thin out the shot. i have minimized the pain i think, but it is still bad. i had to switch which days i squat becuse my glute hurt. i am squatting the same day as i inject because the pain comes about 24 hours later, and lasts for at least 3 days.

it is really hard to eat enough. I can break 3000 clean calories a day, but no more. dont give up here. u will need to eat more. at week 3 u r at 190 but that is not even close to being all muscle, not at week 3. u will drop the water weight during pct

^^^^^^

 

[johnjosephholly]

i don't have an easy means to check body fat. I got it checked at the doc when i was getting my precycle levels.

I look fatter, but i think that is the water. I had the top two sets of abs, and the next two down only showed in the morning when i woke up. But now all of them are hidden.

By the way 8and20, how do I get quads like that? Those are awesome.