financial planner w/emphasis on real estate, is this possible?

[bran987]

There seem to be some smart people here, I need advice. Sorry this is long, I'm just trying to figure out my life.

I got my degree in finance and real estate. when the stock market went kaboom I decided after graduation I would work for a real estate developer.

I've worked for a R.E. developer for the past 3 years, doing financial analysis, feasibility stuff, and the development side, and I kind of grew up around it. I know how to analyze R.E. markets, I've done high-rise stuff, and I've even helped friends buy houses, get loans and rent the houses out as investments. I just seem to have a finance mind, a lot of my friends come to me for advice.

I'm obsessed with retirement. All day I dream up what I could do to grow money, businesses I could start, houses I could buy, where gaps in markets exist. I think a job where my job would be to do this would make me happy, cause it would be my job to think about it all day and help people.

Here is what I would love to do, but I'm not sure it is possible. I feel like most financial planners are just trying to sell people stocks or other financial instruments and don't really give a sh*t what actually happens to their future. From what I see, the most they say is "Oh, you can put 10% of your money in real estate, it's good diversification" and that's IT!! I also think real estate in the long run is a much more stable investment than stocks and can provide a superior return (less risk -> more return = good!) IF you know what you're doing!

I think that a lot of people are afraid of the stock market now and know real estate is a good investment and has been for thousands of years, but are afraid to get started. They don't know what to do, and a lot of people who don't know how to manage risk tell them horror stories (or stories they *heard*.. and didn't even experience) about how "oohh.. you don't want to be a landlord.." etc. etc...) They don't realize there are ways you don't have to be a landlord, or ways to find good tenants, or that the risk in real estate investing can be mitigated down to almost nothing by increasing your down payment by varying degrees (even a bank won't ask you for financials if you only want to use 50% leverage to buy a property.. why? because there's no risk to them!) there are many ways to decrease risk.. regardless of interest rates and how they may change.. but anyway..

My ideal job would be one where I would be qualified to help people plan their retirement.. and offer them alternative investments like what I have described.

My question is.. does anything like this exist? Would an MBA or CFP be a better path to follow? (I have good GMAT, GPA and work experience!) Is there a company I could work for that would allow this sort of thing, or would I pretty much be on my own. I'm pretty good at sales too.. and teaching people.. I love it.

I've got karma for my financial peeps who help me get my sh*t together or get my head out of the clouds.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

You;re on the right track, I do some of this stuff. MBA is the better way to go if you can go to an elite school.

Some really cutting edge stuff is being done right now in this area. Sophistiatced valuation models arecoming out which will make everyone a RE investor, most of them will be bad at it, just as most people are bad stock market investors. (Look up the avergae valuation model, read about some of the steps that are being developed to make it a reality across wide geographical areas.)

As with any type of advosr, you need to show your clients that you know more than they do, and give them a comfort level. MBA from an elite school is your answer.

Let me know if you have more questions or more info. I got your PM, I tried to answer here.

 

[gotmilk]

I've worked for a R.E. developer for the past 3 years, doing financial analysis, feasibility stuff, and the development side, and I kind of grew up around it

What are you doing now for work?

A degree is great if you are looking to work for someone but connections are worth more. Access to funding parties or development groups will earn more money than a degree will.

Personally, I would skip an MBA unless you are looking for a piece of paper to hang on your wall. Think about, do you need a degree to identify potential projects to pursue?

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

What are you doing now for work?

A degree is great if you are looking to work for someone but connections are worth more. Access to funding parties or development groups will earn more money than a degree will.

Personally, I would skip an MBA unless you are looking for a piece of paper to hang on your wall. Think about, do you need a degree to identify potential projects to pursue?

You're giving him bad advice orb, or you're just unaware of emerging developments in the RE development industry.

You need "connections" now because there is no method to uniformly evaluate potential investment criteria; the only entities with any data are municipal governments, and one municiplaity has different data than another. Large scale comparisons are unworkable, therefore, so is meaningful analysis, short of actually walking the property.

That's changing. Something is being developed to make this possible; investment banks do lots of financial modeling in almost every segment of the economy, finally they are coming online with RE modeling as well.

The entire mortgage backed securities market was developed in one classroom at an Ivy league school; shortly thereafter it was dominated by Wall Street types. The same will happen as a next generation AVM model is developed - a model that actually compares property in an area larger than a zip code and on criteria other than comparably priced property. AVM is weak now, that's going to change.

With a new model (it's not more than a year or two off) an analyst at Goldman Sachs in NY will be able to look at a project in CA and determine what the return on investment is, having never seen the place (sounds crazy, comapred to what we have to do now - go out and walk the property, do detailed analyses of surrounding areas, all of this will become a point and click) ad make recommendation to large investors. The local developer will die. Won't happen tomorrow but that's where this is headed.

For that reason, someone who wants to work in the industry for the next 30 years needs to have a solid understanding of finance, financial instruments, and modeling. An MBA from a top school is the fastest way to get this.

 

[tripleblonde]

i agree......i'm studying for my GMAT right now to get into business school, because it's almost becoming necessary to have that extra economic value in today's business society. it's a committment, but if you plan it right, it can pay off....just make sure you know what you wanna do w/it....that was about as clear as mud right?

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

i agree......i'm studying for my GMAT right now to get into business school, because it's almost becoming necessary to have that extra economic value in today's business society. it's a committment, but if you plan it right, it can pay off....just make sure you know what you wanna do w/it....that was about as clear as mud right?

If you don't go to a top 10 school, you might as well not bother. The recetnt glut of MBAs have devalued the degree greatly, while increasing the value of an elite MBA.

 

[bran987]

Well I have some more questions.. but first I need to get a grasp on this MBA thing.... I can only get into Top 25, I doubt Top 10. What is my next step? Forget an MBA?

I was planning on going to SMU.. it was rated #9 private school MBA in the world.. but it usually only ranks #20-30 overall depending on the year. Both my parents went there for MBA and I went undergrad so I have an easier in.

The only thing that might get me in to a Top 10 is that I've already been involved with personally coordinating, analyzing, structuring (and every other B.S. resume term you can think of) refinances and development jobs for buildings that cost over $100 million each.. but I don't have the 700 GMAT get into Wharton.. only in the mid 600's with a 3.7 undergrad GPA.. and like I said pretty extensive work experience for someone my age.. but shit.. everyone applying to Top 10 has that. And better scores.

Am I sunk?

*EDIT - Basically, if you haven't heard of it, SMU is the wharton/harvard of dallas.. all the top execs in dallas either went to SMU, UT, (or harvard of wharton).. so I thought if I was staying in dallas it would be the place to go to network and learn (since I can't get into harvard/wharton

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

SMU is a great deal if you want to work in Texas. Don't come to NY with that thing.

however, it will give you the understanding of finance that you need in what promises to be a rapidly changing RE investment world.

 

[bran987]

So you think going with an MBA in Finance is better than an MBA in R.E. ?

*EDIT I know nobody on either coast has ever even heard of SMU I do like Texas.

 

[bran987]

One question pops into my head..

Back when all the big swinging dicks at Goldman took over all the mortgage backed stuff.. there was no Internet. Nobody even had computers.

If AVM is all going to make everything point and click.. why would you need Goldman Sachs to make a recommendation for you? With the Internet and software now, won't these models become available to the public? If it is going to kill local developers, (who make up A LOT of the development population), would somebody decide to fight back and develop their own model? And wouldn't somebody come up with the idea that "Hey.. you know what.. we could make money selling this to other small developers"?

It doesn't take an MBA to run a software program, right?

Or are you saying all of the AVM will be proprietary to Investment Banks, they have all the power, and that is the reason you should get an MBA?

Doing what you said previously (kicking dirt, analyzing a market pop. data and job growth, checking comps.. actually building financial models).. all that stuff seems like it would need a degree to learn.. but just running a software prog? Is that really where the world is going?

I'm wondering cause we do deals with prudential and lehman bros., and even they still do things the old fashioned way. You seem to be very much in the know, Matt. It's amazing you're only 28 years old.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

One question pops into my head..

Back when all the big swinging dicks at Goldman took over all the mortgage backed stuff.. there was no Internet. Nobody even had computers.

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Actually, Wall Street at the time was doing breakthrough stuff with spreadsheets. Aware of this, Wharton used to make their undergrads learn how to use Lotus 1-2-3 and similar apps. It sounds funny now but it was cutting edge back then.

If AVM is all going to make everything point and click.. why would you need Goldman Sachs to make a recommendation for you? With the Internet and software now, won't these models become available to the public? If it is going to kill local developers, (who make up A LOT of the development population), would somebody decide to fight back and develop their own model? And wouldn't somebody come up with the idea that "Hey.. you know what.. we could make money selling this to other small developers"?

It doesn't take an MBA to run a software program, right?

Or are you saying all of the AVM will be proprietary to Investment Banks, they have all the power, and that is the reason you should get an MBA?

I don't think it will be purely proprietary to the banks - over time it will become available to everyone. But you can look on the web and find a list of foreclosures - doesn't mean you can start flipping homes. Think about it, if you have knowledge, and Morgan Stanley has knowledge, are you on equal footing?

Small developers may very much continue to live on, but in a different way. Someone still has to build things. However, instead of securing construction loans and worrying about checkpoints, inspections, etc., development will turn into something more like pure entreprenuership - smaller developers will pitch to investment banks and try to secure something more along the lines of venture capital. The developers wil then manage the construction; what does an Stanford MBA know about footers, rebar, and soil samples? As anyone who has dealt with venture capitalists can tell you, they are a real pain in the ass, they are overeducated and underexperienced, and they control billions of dollars. They'll be the new partners of that local developer.

Today's developers have to get bank loans, sometimes resort to "build to suit" and then default when their custom tenant leaves after the lease expires....a lot of that will go away when investment banks step in. It will be a good thing though, as it will result in more dollars for builders.

Now - you don't need an MBA to run a softeare program. The undergrads/analysts will do that. (hee hee). But as this new model develops, it is not going to be static. The .com explosion didn't make the stockmarkets static, it did the opposite. The infusion of investment bank money will result in much more growth and development of real estate (just as venture capitalists support more start ups).

As this happens, real estate markets will be dynamic, even more so, in fact. The increased availability of capital will cause markets to move faster. Make sense?

Doing what you said previously (kicking dirt, analyzing a market pop. data and job growth, checking comps.. actually building financial models).. all that stuff seems like it would need a degree to learn.. but just running a software prog? Is that really where the world is going?

You do need a degree, or a mentor, to learn that, or at least to understand why it is significant. That, though, is what really good AVM will replace.

As markets develop, new instruments will emerge; who knew what a mortgage backed security was in 1970? How about a credit derivative?
You'll need a solid backing in finance to interpret this stuff and understand the new instruments as they emerge, which they undoubtedly will....

I'm wondering cause we do deals with prudential and lehman bros., and even they still do things the old fashioned way. You seem to be very much in the know, Matt. It's amazing you're only 28 years old.

The fact that they are slow to adopt means you want to be ahead of them. If you have knowledge they want, you'll get paid big numbers.

Thanks for the compliment - I've been lucky in meeting some excellent people who have taught me a lot.

 

[awittyusername]

Hey, I have a similar story. I didn't go back for my masters. I started developing on my own.


Just a suggestion. Why don't you become a real estate developer. You have the education and experiance. All you have to do is find the right property and get the money from the bank. You already know how much money you can make. Or, you could get a group of people to go in with you. So, you all can retire. Good luck.

 

[bran987]

Now - you don't need an MBA to run a softeare program. The undergrads/analysts will do that. (hee hee).

Matt - My head is sort of spinning, trying to sort it all out. I don't want to ask too many questions at once. My next question though: I thought MBA's who went to Investment Banks usually become analysts? (read what you wrote above)

P.S. I saw that $48 mil Sotheby house you posted the link to... WOW


awittyusername - I could be a developer, but I want to do something I really enjoy. This business (at least the company I work for) has a ton of headaches. What do you build? Houses/Apartments? Office Buildings? Medical Buildings are supposedly going to be huge in the next couple decades as boomers age.. one of my friends just went to work for a company that does those.

 

[Razorguns]

Just be forewarned. if the bubble breaks (just like the dot-com bust made millions of so called wall street "experts" look like total idiots) -- everyone in the real estate market is fucked. As long as house prices keep rising -- invesments is a great potential.

Some markets are already saturated. Hit the right market, such as Vegas where every LA investor is running to right now to buy up properties. How you dress it up to investors with fancy terminology, models, graphs, funds, name-dropping, etc. is up to you, and is what you'd go to school for. Like Matt said -- as long as you sound all fancy and smarter than the guy who you're trying to get money from. If he out-lingo's you in a meeting -- you'll look like a dork.

 

[Razorguns]

btw: My ex works for a Real Estate Developer. They make enough money themselves that they DON'T need any banks or investment banks for their capital. They can finance the construction themselves quite fine. And with a cost of $120k to a build a home that they sell for $750,00 -- the profits are f'n out of the roof.

I wish real estate development companies would go public! They'd be the new dot-coms.

 

[bran987]

Just be forewarned. if the bubble breaks (just like the dot-com bust made millions of so called wall street "experts" look like total idiots) -- everyone in the real estate market is fucked. As long as house prices keep rising -- invesments is a great potential.

Some markets are already saturated. Hit the right market, such as Vegas where every LA investor is running to right now to buy up properties. How you dress it up to investors with fancy terminology, models, graphs, funds, name-dropping, etc. is up to you, and is what you'd go to school for. Like Matt said -- as long as you sound all fancy and smarter than the guy who you're trying to get money from. If he out-lingo's you in a meeting -- you'll look like a dork.

Thanks for the input.. markets can be saturated temporarily.. but people will be flooding to dallas as cost of living skyrockets on the coasts for awhile to come.. real estate is always boom.. bust.. recover.. boom.. bust.. recover.. and always will be.. as far as financial planning.. the dressing it up with fancy lingo and terminology is the B.S. that is a turn off to me though

 

[bran987]

btw: My ex works for a Real Estate Developer. They make enough money themselves that they DON'T need any banks or investment banks for their capital. They can finance the construction themselves quite fine. And with a cost of $120k to a build a home that they sell for $750,00 -- the profits are f'n out of the roof.

I wish real estate development companies would go public! They'd be the new dot-coms.

They're call REIT's.. Real Estate Investment Trusts... been around for decades.. check out Post.. Camden.. Trammell.. Gables..

 

[Razorguns]

>They're call REIT's.. Real Estate Investment Trusts... been around for decades..
>check out Post.. Camden.. Trammell.. Gables..

Anyone got UNBIASED reviews on these "trusts"? I'm not talking sales pitches. eg: You put in $20k this year, you get $40k next year (which i'm sure they'd never be THAT good, probably gotta wait 30 years to take it out).

The LA market is starting to get fucked. Many people who bought last year real HIGH, can't afford their payments and now trying to sell. Unfortuately they can't get what they paid for. They're what we call the "real estate losers" you never hear about.

 

[bran987]

>They're call REIT's.. Real Estate Investment Trusts... been around for decades..
>check out Post.. Camden.. Trammell.. Gables..

Anyone got UNBIASED reviews on these "trusts"? I'm not talking sales pitches. eg: You put in $20k this year, you get $40k next year (which i'm sure they'd never be THAT good, probably gotta wait 30 years to take it out).

The LA market is starting to get fucked. Many people who bought last year real HIGH, can't afford their payments and now trying to sell. Unfortuately they can't get what they paid for. They're what we call the "real estate losers" you never hear about.

This isn't where I wanted this thread to go.. but if you really must know. No they are not hedge funds where you lock your money away for years.

You can buy and sell the stock the same day if you want, just like any other stock. There is no guarantee of return on investment in a REIT, just as there is no guarantee of return on investment if you buy shares of Coca Cola.

They are required by law to pay out 95% of their net income to shareholders every year in the form of a dividend.

They are the biggest and most respected developers in the world. You do not invest in individual projects, you invest in their portfolio of tens of thousands of units and properties. It is a passive way for the common man to invest in real estate and achieve a modest return.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Matt - My head is sort of spinning, trying to sort it all out. I don't want to ask too many questions at once. My next question though: I thought MBA's who went to Investment Banks usually become analysts? (read what you wrote above)

P.S. I saw that $48 mil Sotheby house you posted the link to... WOW

Yeah that house in Palm Beach is something....could probably get it for $35M....but anyway still out of my range for now.

Analyst jobs are usually for the undergrads...depending on how they perform they can become associates, or go to biz school and then become associates.

Investment banks have all kinds of different jobs though....I don't think that is exactly where you wanted this thread to go....

I gave you sort of the "big picture" overview. When I talk about development, I mean changing the landscape of a city, not building a few houses...

You seem pretty well-versed....do you see why i am steering you toward an MBA? Another reason is that an mBA from the right school gives you credibility with large investors and lenders...

let me kno if you havee any questions or feel free to PM me.

 

[gotmilk]

You're giving him bad advice orb, or you're just unaware of emerging developments in the RE development industry.

I was looking at his situation as though he wanted to work for himself. Up here, there is a 2 year waiting list to get into Tuck at Dartmouth. A guy with some good connections could broker a few deals over the next few years.

I understand the banks are working on ways to analyze real estate development but it still takes someone to locate the deal first. Look at the land in Aspen we were talking about last year.

If he can get into Tuck, Harvard, Wharton, etc...go for it. The connections these school have is worth the time of earning a MBA....but in the meantime, why not bring some deals to his boss and ask for a cut? He might be able to make more money by brokering a few deals while looking for a graduate school.

 

[Razorguns]

>It is a passive way for the common man to invest in real estate and achieve a
>modest return.

Okay maybe i'm not understanding something here. If real estate, which is booming and profits can be massive -- if you invest $10g's in a fund that works off real estate invements -- would the dividends NOT be pretty substantial? And with a lot less risk in a fluctuating stock portfolio where stocks can take huge nose dives, etc.? Why would they be modest? A real estate investment in a $500k property, sold for $900k can result in $400k profit divied out to everyone. No?

 

[Longhorn85]

If you don't go to a top 10 school, you might as well not bother. The recetnt glut of MBAs have devalued the degree greatly, while increasing the value of an elite MBA.

Matt, I'm tired of you hatin' on us non-top 10 school MBA types! It is not realistic or necessary for everyone who wants an MBA to go to Harvard!

An MBA can be helpful to launch a career in Finance or business, especially if you're coming from a different backround. Right now I am transitioning from the military into finance, and if I didn't have my little non-top 10 MBA to go with my math undergrad I wouldn't be getting nearly as many opportunities and interviews.

I would agree that there are two types of MBAs: top school and other, but the "other" is not worthless. On the contrary, it is worthwhile learning and can help you find and I think succeed in a financial career.


I think Bran would benefit from any MBA, but it sounds like he has enough knowledge right now to be a successful financial planner.

Bran, check with American Express. They offer some quality training and good opportunites for financial advisors.

 

[vinylgroover]

Bran,

You are wasting your time with a MBA.

I'm with awittyname.

I too have a business degree majoring in real estate finance and development. I currently work for a major real estate developer, but i focus on major commercial, industrial and retail development.

I have been in the industry for around 5 years now, having commenced in commercial real estate agency with Lasalle's.

My advice to you would be to stay in development for a while longer, make as many contacts as you can, and then get out and do your own thing.

In a few years, i am planning on getting out, packaging up my own development opportunities, then take them to high net worth investors and source equity from them. There are plenty of high net worth individuals out there eg, doctors, lawyers etc who have plenty of money looking for equity participaton who don't have the development expertise. If you can package up a site and have the management expertise to deliver the project, they will back you.........but you will need to show a good track trecord and that you have the ability to deliver the project.

Have you had any project delivery experience as yet or has most of your experience been at the front end of projects in the sourcing, feasibility and finacial analysis?

just be patient. I also started doing the front end analysis, which i think is still the most important and enjoyable part of the job, but having project delivery and management experience is a key skill as well.

 

[bran987]

To those who suggested I be a developer: It is a good suggestion that I become a developer, judging from the experience I have had in my career up to now. When I speak of development I too am talking about bigger projects rather than a couple houses.

But I have determined I really am not best suited to the delivery of real estate projects, more because of a lack of interest rather than anything else. Dealing with site plan approvals, platting, zoning, pre-sales, subs, ADA, civil, structural, on and on and on and on and on, and all the time being left on the WRONG side of cost overruns, as the developer is left on the hook for the added cost so many times, either eating away his profit or even dipping into his own pockets on a recourse loan. Lehman has no mercy.

You have to have a MAJOR passion for ALL of those things I listed and 100 more just like it to make millions on the development side. I've seen it first hand, it has to consume you or things slip through the cracks, and you can't rely on anyone else to pick up the slack because it's your ass on the line. I know a lot of businesses are that way, but I'm just saying it's the same in this one and I know it's not where the passion is for me. But Vinyl, if it is what you love and you can sell, yeah you can find docs or attorneys. Another suggestion would be to find land owners who are sitting on land that has tripled in the past few years, they have no idea what to do with it, and will contribute the land as equity to the deal as part of a JV. On the back end pay them the full price of what they were asking for the land + a %age of the back-end for the risk they undertook. We have been and are doing that successfully at the moment.

I think what Matt is trying to tell me is that if I want to be in real estate in any form or capacity, whether through consulting or developing or on the lending side, the landscape of the industry could change drastically in the next 30 years, and the people who have a fundamental knowledge of the financial instruments and tools released will have an edge. The only way to form a basis for understanding the underlying concepts these tools will present is to have as strong of a base in finance as possible. The only way to further what I already have learned about finance is through an MBA from a leading school. I think that is why he is steering me in the MBA direction, and maybe he can let me know if I am off on that or not.

You all had great responses and gave me a lot to think about. Of course any additional comments would be great as well.

 

[bran987]

What are you doing now for work?

A degree is great if you are looking to work for someone but connections are worth more. Access to funding parties or development groups will earn more money than a degree will.

Personally, I would skip an MBA unless you are looking for a piece of paper to hang on your wall. Think about, do you need a degree to identify potential projects to pursue?

Milk,

I've thought about going out and driving around with land brokers showing me all the sites zoned residential or that could be re-zoned they have around town, going back home and doing a market and feasibility analysis on the best piece, checking the F.A.R. and seeing what would fit, how tall you could go, where and for how much, what stuff rent/sells for around, pure land flip vs. improved, looking for banks interested in that market then presenting it to the developer and hooking them up for a fee. I still haven't ruled that out. Pretty sure I'm at the point now where I could do that but I'd need somebody who's done it before to consult. IMO the guys who have brought those types of deals to us make a lot for what they do. I guess I'm just in limbo

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

To those who suggested I be a developer: It is a good suggestion that I become a developer, judging from the experience I have had in my career up to now. When I speak of development I too am talking about bigger projects rather than a couple houses.

But I have determined I really am not best suited to the delivery of real estate projects, more because of a lack of interest rather than anything else. Dealing with site plan approvals, platting, zoning, pre-sales, subs, ADA, civil, structural, on and on and on and on and on, and all the time being left on the WRONG side of cost overruns, as the developer is left on the hook for the added cost so many times, either eating away his profit or even dipping into his own pockets on a recourse loan. Lehman has no mercy.

You have to have a MAJOR passion for ALL of those things I listed and 100 more just like it to make millions on the development side. I've seen it first hand, it has to consume you or things slip through the cracks, and you can't rely on anyone else to pick up the slack because it's your ass on the line. I know a lot of businesses are that way, but I'm just saying it's the same in this one and I know it's not where the passion is for me. But Vinyl, if it is what you love and you can sell, yeah you can find docs or attorneys. Another suggestion would be to find land owners who are sitting on land that has tripled in the past few years, they have no idea what to do with it, and will contribute the land as equity to the deal as part of a JV. On the back end pay them the full price of what they were asking for the land + a %age of the back-end for the risk they undertook. We have been and are doing that successfully at the moment.

I think what Matt is trying to tell me is that if I want to be in real estate in any form or capacity, whether through consulting or developing or on the lending side, the landscape of the industry could change drastically in the next 30 years, and the people who have a fundamental knowledge of the financial instruments and tools released will have an edge. The only way to form a basis for understanding the underlying concepts these tools will present is to have as strong of a base in finance as possible. The only way to further what I already have learned about finance is through an MBA from a leading school. I think that is why he is steering me in the MBA direction, and maybe he can let me know if I am off on that or not.

You all had great responses and gave me a lot to think about. Of course any additional comments would be great as well.

My point was that a decent AVM is going to change the landscape of investing and development. Do you want to be the guy that finds doctors and lawyers to participate in an apartment complex, or do you want to be the guy managing the $3B real estate fund?

The RE funds are coming....I don't mean REITs, I mean a private equity type of fund except instead of equity, property. They will spawn a whole generation of analysts and divisions of investment banks, just mortgage backed securities did.

You'll learn about finance with an MBA, and if you go to the right school, you can get access to people who won't even take your calls if you work on your own.

The most important thing is to keep learning.

 

[gotmilk]

IMO the guys who have brought those types of deals to us make a lot for what they do. I guess I'm just in limbo

Developers are always willing to cut deals for someone who can make them money too. There are so many projects around the US that a person with good contacts could broker some serious deals.

Here in New England, someone could make a killing redeveloping the Portland, Maine harbor. It's miles of empty warehouses on the ocean, much like Back Bay in Boston was decades ago. There are places up and down the East Coast with the same situations.