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Fat gain with 'slin.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Julez
  • Start date Start date
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Julez

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Fuck it, I'm going to throw some of this stuff into my next cycle, on my friends(an experienced users) advice I'll do it 14 days at the beginning of my cycle, I won't go into the doses but obviosly I start at 2iu's initially and see how I respond.

I am a bit paranoid about fat gain, everyone who I've seen use it piles it on, I but it down to the high fat content(after slin will transport EVERYTHING).

If anyone can offer advice/experience regarding fat gain(and not getting it!) on 'slin, I'd be interested.
 
any one with good knowlege I also would like to add it to my next cycle. If you can give any pointers or how much to do and what times of the day and what to eat before taking it would be great.

If any one knowes any good places to get email me or pm me. Thanks
 
at a little over 200lbs i used 10iu right after working out
with 100 grams of carbs and lots of protein no fat
after a heavy workout the insulin is more prone to effect muscles than fat cells ill bet that your friends used at other times than just after workout

most important issue with insulin is safety so this is the safety guideline i wrote a long time ago

by the way my experience is with humulin R only wouldnt use any of the others except humulog and i have no experience with that

http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=45023&highlight=insulin+safety

insulin safety



1. do not use slin alone have a partner or girlfriend(or mom) whos not using slin hang around with you from the time you take the slin to about 2.5 hrs after.

2. tell them to look for anything out of the norm for your personality and have a list of questions like your ssn or address etc that they can ask you. dont joke around and answer them without shit because if you cant answer or refuse to answer it could be a sign of low blood sugar.

3. if you cant/wont answer they should be prepared to feed you carbs like pancake syrup, coke, sugary stuff. i bought glucose tablets at walmart. kinda like candy but gets in the blood faster and disolve quickly. these are for diabetics ask at the pharmacy

4. have your partner know that if they suspect low blood sugar and cant convince or force you to consume carbs until your better. CALL 911 and ask for an ambulance and tell the truth to the operater that they suspect you are in insulin shock and explain when they get there(the ambulance not the cops) that you are not diabetic but using insulin for anabolic purposes have the type of slin and the dosage and carbs consumed recorded to give the paramedic. they will save you then u refuse transport to the hospital and eat. if the cops ask a lot of question and wont let it go tell the truth but be sure your house is clean before every workout just in case the bad thing happens.

5. why so much preperation for the possible problem?? insulin can kill you in minutes if you go down!!

6. only take fast acting R type or the new stuff humalog. i recomend humulin R cause its the same as human slin. its created with recombinant dna bacteria(gross). you take the fast acting so its out of the system faster and that is safer

7. take the carbs and protein together imediatly after injecting the slin(dont take chances trying to time out 15 min) take the protein with the carbs because the protein is pushed into the muscles with the slin also(creatine too).

8. eat again 1 hour after the slin.

9. at 2.5 hours drink some gator aid and dismiss your watcher. you lived.(drink the gator aid just to make sure becaus your getting rid of your lifeline)

10. creatine works great with slin take it with your first dose of carbs.

11. only take the slin after a work out never before or when not working out because before a work out you could crash and die during the workout and when your not working out it makes you fat.


12. short cycles please because you could have side effects. it is suspected that you could become an insulin dependant diabetic but i have never seen proof, but is it worth the risk. i would only use it a few times a week for no more than 4 weeks.

13 grow grow grow
 
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I am also extremely interested in this. I may try slin after my next cycle, but don't want to if it's going to add as much fat as muscle. Not worth it then IMO. I believe part of the trick is timing and not eating any fats around the time of the shot and maybe even eliminating fats all together for the duration of the slin cycle. Also, using log instead of R since it is faster acting is supposed to keep fat off better but it is also more dangerous and not recommended for a first time user. Anyway, I hope we can get some good experienced answers here.
 
My advise: Completely avoid any fat intake for the 4 hours after your shot. This should be fat gain to a minimum.

Nautica
 
I am using Actrapid.

Any 'clear' insulin is fast acting.

Yeah, I am a nurse so I understand a fair amount regarding insulin safety.

10iu's, that's a lot, IMO. Did you work up to that, what sort of gains did you see.

Do you think I should do it at the begining of my AS(test,deca,dball) or not...(I think it should work VERY well in conjunction with steroids).
 
julez

no i didnt work up to it i read somewhere about dosage can remeber but at my weight they recomended like 12iu so i nocked it down and went

i would wait until you had full blood serum levels of aas cause most of them inhibit fat gain also the nutrients would be put to best use when your in full swing of the ass

glad your cognizant of the safety issues

not familiar with actrapid but being a nurse you should know about the actions of this drug

and as for gains i saw more gains in the 3 weeks i did the insulin(in both cycles i used it right in the middle) than in the rest of the cycle combined

so if you are under 200lbs use 6 to 8 ius and experiment if 200 or over (unless your a pro bb) use 8 to 10 thats enough and you will like it
 
couldnt find this with a search so it must be platinum priveledge so here


BASIC Insulin Primer by AnabolicDiabetic

WHAT IS INSULIN?

Insulin is a hormone produced in the pancreas- islet cells/beta cells to be specific. Insulin facilitates the use of sugar, which all calories are ultimately converted to, for the multitude of bodily fuctions which include energy production, brain activity, metabolism regulation- basically all of your body's function either directly or indirectly.

WHERE DO I GET IT AND WHAT TYPE DO I USE?

Humilin R is available OTC just about everywhere and while it is a quick acting insulin, it is not the fastest or most consistent in terms of absorption and effect. Humilin R starts working in about 1/2 hour and the effect can last up to six hours.

Humalog is available OTC in some states/countries while be RX only in many other states. Humalog is a true fast acting insulin which begins activity within 15 minutes and ends activity within 4 hours. Humalog is the preffered insulin to use since it works more predictably and is out of your system faster which makes it easier to control.

HOW MUCH DOES IT COST?

In general, Insulin costs between $20-$30 depending on the type and where you buy it.

WHAT KIND OF NEEDLES DO I USE?

Use 29 guage, 1/2cc insulin syringes. "B-D ultra-fine" is my preference in terms of brand.

WHERE DO I INJECT?

Upper back of arm, abdomen(avoid area too close to belly button), inner and outer upper thigh, butt cheeks.

HOW DO I INJECT?

Rotate injection sites each time you inject. Don't inject into the same area two times in a row. Insulin injections are subcutaneous- not intramuscular.

WHAT DOSE DO I START WITH?

Start with 2-3 units of insulin. There is no need to start higher than this as you will be adjusting your dose gradually to find a tolerable level.

HOW DO I INCREASE MY DOSE?

To move your dose higher in order to find your ideal dose, go up by one unit per day. A very general guide would be to consider between 10 and 15 units as your pre-determined upper limit. If it turns out you want to go higher and don't have any trouble with those doses, then no harm is done and you can go higher. Don't make big leaps up in dose or assume more is better- be safe rather than sorry.

WHAT DO I EAT AND WHEN DO I EAT IT?

For Humilin R, the general start of activity is within a 1/2 hour but the varies ALOT!!!!! Don't assume you have tons of time to wait to eat simple sugars. Pay attention to how you feel and never wait more than 15 minutes(if that) to eat. First consume simple sugars(dextrose preffered but not the only one) in the form of some type of drink as these are most readily absorbed in my experience. A general guideline is 10 grams of carbs for each unit of insulin- MINIMUM! Within a hour or so after your dose you want to eat a mix of simple carbs and high protein- this is the golden hour AFTER your workout when the insulin will shuttle nutrients into your muscles very efficiently. Humilin R will peak at two hours after you take it so you must eat another balanced meal at the hour and a half mark approximately. This meal should include complex carbs, some fats, and protein. Use simple carbs also if you feel any hypoglycemic symptoms. "R" will last up to six hours so be aware of how you feel and eat as needed after the two hour mark. REMEMBER THAT YOU STILL HAVE A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF INSULIN WORKING UP TO SIX HOURS LATER SO DON'T BE COMPLACENT AND ASSUME YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GO HYPOGLYCEMIC.

For Humalog, use the same general rules and type of meal sequence, but begin the process immediately. Simple carbs should be ingested within 10 minutes- NO EXCEPTIONS. Then have the carb/protein meal within the hour. Then have the balanced meal of complex carbs/fats/protein at the hour 1/2 mark. Keep aware of how you feel up to four hours after your dose and eat as needed.

FACTORS AFFECTING INSULIN ABSORPTION/SENSITIVITY

The abdomen is generally the area where insulin is absorbed the most consistently or evenly as it is designed to be.

Injections near a muscle that you have worked out can dramtically increase the absorption rate and effect of your dose of insulin.

GH will make you more insulin INsensitive so your tolerance of insulin will change when on or off of GH.

Highly androgenic steroids also make you more insulin insensitive, however, can also cause very random hypoglycemia aswell.

Supplements such as Chromium, Ginseng, Alpha Lipoic Acid, and Cinnamon (among others) increase insulin sensitivity.

Variations in glycogen levels in your muscles can also affect how severe a hypoglycemic reactions may be or may feel. If you are starting out with low levels of muscle glycogen, the same dose of insulin that didn't affect you before may now be too much.

The glucagon response from everyone's liver will vary. This hormone increases blood sugar when during stresses to the body or in response to hypoglycemia. Some people may get a big response from their liver and hypoglycemia for them won't be as severe. Others will have less of a respense and may be more prone to insulin shock. This response can also vary for each person based on their diet, exercise etc. so don't assume your liver will react the same way to hypoglycemia each time- you may get help from it or you may have to depend mostly on consuming sugar to save your life.

WHAT ARE THE SYMPTOMS OF HYPOGLYCEMIA?
They include: sweating, dizziness, heart palpitations, tremors, drowsiness, sleep distrubances, anxiety, blurred vision, hunger, restelessness, lightheadedness, tingling in extremeties, headache, slurred speech, irritability, unstable movement, personality changes, seizures, DEATH

HOW SHOULD I CYCLE INSULIN?

Insulin should be cycled so that you have less of a chance of permanently affecting your own body's production of insulin. Even cycling can affect your own production though so be aware and see your doctor regularly. I say 4 weeks on and 4 weeks off as a general rule of thumb with 6 weeks on being the absolute limit in my opinion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This was meant to be a basic introduction to using insulin. I do not condone the use of insulin by non-diabetics nor am I encouraging anyone to use insulin. I am not a doctor and YOU are the only one who can be responsible for making the decision to use insulin. I hope this helps someone to stay safe and think things through before jumping into the unknown. I will be adding things to this as I go since I'm sure I forgot some things.

Good luck to all- AD
 
and this from monster man im glad i copied these to my hard drive

i can imagine anymore questions bout slin now

Ok, lets have a look at insulin. By monster
Its highly anabolic and non-androgenic, and in case some of you are in the dark (I'd like to think we're all clear on anabolic versus androgenic, but ya never know) I'll briefly touch on the subject before diving in... if youre ok on anabolic/androgenic concepts, skip to the INSULIN part...

ANDROGENIC VERSUS ANABOLIC
ANABOLIC is defined as "The process of constructive metabolism" or of building complex substances out of simple substances.
The way your body processes protien, carbohydrates, and fat (all simple substances) and makes muscle (a complex substance) is ANABOLISM.
ANDROGENIC is basically defined as pertaining to male sex characteristics.
ANDROGENIC/ANABOLIC
"Steroids" are actually called "Anabolic Androgenic Steroids." They accomplish "anabolism" through "anabolic" pathways, some being more androgenic (testosterone esters) and some less (winstrol, anavar, primobolan, ect...).
Most often, with reduced androgenic properties comes reduced anabolic properties, but it isnt always cut and dry. If anyone is interested I'll go into it another time, but lets head toward the insulin topic.

INSULIN: NonAndrogenic but Anabolic
Insulin is NOT a sex hormone. It is not related in any way to testosterone, or to estrogen for that matter. It is a product of the pancreas as opposed to testosterone which is a product of the HPTA, pituitary, gonadal, leydig, mishmash of interconnected glands...

WHY IS INSULIN ANABOLIC
So why is insulin anabolic then? Insulin is a partitioning agent. A "shuttle" if you will.
Picture insulin as a bus. Nutrients board the bus, and insulin pulls away and drops off the nutrients at the proper bus stop. That is basically what it does, and for all intents and purposes that is everything you need to know to understand how it works.
So by insulin shuttling these nutrient where they need to go, it enables anabolism and is therefor anabolic!

WHY NOT JUST TAKE CARBS TO RAISE INSULIN
Well, the amount of carbs you would need to take in to increase natural insulin levels to the degree a 10 i.u. shot would would be far more dangerous than using insuiln (and using insulin is NOT that hard OR dangerous).
Carbs at that level would eventually lead to diabetes and fat gains.
If insulin is a bus taking nutrients where they need to go, then exogenous insulin is a bullet train! It can hold far more nutrients than a normal naturally produced burst of insulin can, and it works quicker. Exogenous insulin is the most efficient way to accomplish glycogen overcompensation, period.

WHAT KIND DO I TAKE
Im a major supporter of fast acting insulin. The faster the better!
Currently he fastest acting insulin available is Humalog. It is active in 15 minutes, peaks in 1 hour and clears the system around 2 hours.
Next would be Humalin-R. It is active in about 30 minutes, peaks at the 2 hour mark, and clears the system at the 4 hour mark.
"Biophasics" are mixtures of fast and slow acting insulins, but are not the best choice in my opinion, due to an active dose being in you throughout the day. The reason you dont want that will be covered in the "HOW DO I USE IT" section.
There are also Humalin-L and Humalin-S, but they are long acting, and are no more use to me than the Biophasics. There are also porccine and bovine derived insulin, but I am against injecting animal derived substances.
WHEN (AND HOW MUCH) TO USE
Im going to assume we want to avoid any fat gains at all. Even bulking I dont like to gain any unneccesary fat, so Im going to disuss it from that stand point.
The ultra conservative time to use insulin is post-workout. Most people who are concerned about fat dont go over 10 i.u. as a total dose.
Some people us it on waking, before breakfast, since your body is in a basically carb depleted state. Its the kind of thng you have to try for yourslef, and if it works for you, do it. If you thnk youre gaining fat, stop. BUT! Dont start it at both times at once. Make sure you get your post workout dosage worked out and that you know it is not causing you any fat gains before you try pre-breakfast shots. That way you can take out all the guess work as to where any fat gains may come from.

DISPELLING A FEW MYTHS
There is a commoly held perception that you MUSt take in 10grams of carbs per I.U. of insulin, some radicals say 5 grams... well, theyre both wrong.
I got curious about this when I discovered that my insulin dependant diabetic friend didnt even keep track of what she ate post injection. She would feel hypoglycemic after a shot and take a Glucose Tablet.
A glucose tablet is only 5 grams of glucose (carbs)! So I started to think, "Hmmm, mabye everyone is off point on this?"
After conducting a few experiments on myself, I found that you can go considerably lower in carbs than people previously believed.
Now it doesnt make sense to go low in carbs, because that defies the purpose of using the insulin in the first place, but it does free us from having to use so much that there might be some "spill over" in carbs that cant be utilized. So it really makes us able to have more freedom in carbs choices and amounts.
The "risk" in insulin use is not as risky as people believe. Any person with an ounce of sense can see the warning signs of a problem coming, and remedy the situation.
HOW DO I DO IT
If you look at the drug store, you can get these little pen cases that hold a loaded insulin syringe. They are great for our need, you load up the syringe, and put it in the case, and throw it in your bag/purse/whatever. After the workout, head to a bathroom stall and inject it under the skin! Pull up a little skin from the abdomen or upper thigh (anywhere will do, but these are easiest) and inject. Do not shoot into a muscle. This rushes the dose and makes it harder to predict when it will spike.
So now you have 15 minutes to get some carbs (actually you have longer, since the initial hit of the dose is mild and easy to cope with, the spike is a little more harsh, but still nothing unbearable. If you use the carbs, you probobly wont notice the initial dose OR the spike.)
(this is based on Humalog at 10 i.u.)
I use a powder with a 20% simple/80% complex ratio (actually its 17% mono, 5% di, 7% tri, 5%tetra, and 66% penta-saccharides). I use about 60grams of carbs to the 10 i.u. of insulin.
This gives me a nice solid stream of carbs to overcompensate my depleted muscles, but not so many that I risk fat accumulation from the excess.
Now you are good to go till around 1 hour after the initial injection. At this 1 hour mark, the majority of the dose hits your system. Now is the time to eat a good balanced (AND FAT FREE!) meal. The fat-free emphasis will be explained in the POTENTIAL PROBLEMS section. This balance meal of carbs and protien and little to know fat can be anything from a protien drink and a crab drink, to a low fat MRP, to some lean chicken and rice... your choice.
After this meal, you dont need to pay anymore consideration to the insulin, it will gradually decrease and will be out of your system at the 2 hour mark.
Till you get accustmed to the use of insulin, start low and slow. Start at 2 i.u. then 5 i.u. then 7 i.u. then 10 i.u. That way you get a better understanding of any hypoglycemia you may encounter. Ive went as high as 35 i.u., just to try it, but at a certain point a higher dosage doesnt yield any better results (except fat!)
POTENTIAL PROBLEMS
Insulin is relativly safe. If you dont take in any carbs after using it, your body will give you PLENNTY of warning! Youll feel dizzy, tired, achey... hypoglycemic. What is happening is your body has no glycogen to use as fuel. Your muscles re depleted from working out, and often times youve tapped your liver for any remaining glycogen. The insulin does, searching for glycogen to use, takes the rest from your liver, and in the absence of carbs coming in to make more, it heads for the brain.
Your brain uses glucose as its primary fuel source (a little fat, too.) Thats why you get dizzy and light headed, the same with during a ketogenic diet... low glucose equals light headedness.
So if you forget about the carbs, youll get a warning from yuor body, and you can get your ass in gear and get some carbs in you.
If you get to the point where youre nauseated, just drink some sugary beverage and get some carbs in you quickly. Youre still a long long way from any major danger, but dont mess around.
"Fat Free" I said earlier about the 1 hour mark meal. During the 2 hours of the dosage duration, you should avoid fat like it is the plauge! Insulins partitioning properties are as effective at sending fat to the fat stores as it is carbs and protien to muscles!
So till the dose is clear of your system, NO FAT! (Thats another reason why I advocate the fastest acting insulin you can get.)

Well, I cant think of anything else off hand that needs to be said, but if I missed anything, just ask. I may have taken somethng for granted and figured everyone would know or assume on their own...
------------------
 
Julez said:

I am a bit paranoid about fat gain, everyone who I've seen use it piles it on, I but it down to the high fat content(after slin will transport EVERYTHING).

First, the most obvious point, avoid all fat intake if your concerned (and get a faster acting insulin).

You could also try to combine some HCA (or clen) with your slin to inhibit fat storage. Hydroxy Citric Acid inhibits the enzyme ATP citrate lysase (ACL), which essentially converts ingested carbs to fat. ACL levels are normally low but insulin drastically increases them accounting for most of the fat gain (through smart use). The HCA could have a nice effect.

Although I havn't tried this myself , a high dose of 500-750mgs of HCA (due to the really high level of ACL) should work taken within half an hour after the insulin shot, I have heard people get good results with this method.

Just a thought.
 
thanks man but only the first was mine the other two were by

anabolic diabetic and monster

i think i could have wrote them myself but damn i am not sure i would have done as good a job

hey guys copy all three to your harddrive if you are considering using insulin
 
Shit, Actrapid is a soluble insulin which means it's action is upto 8 hours. Shit. I will try and get some Humamlog, this seem better due to the short duration.
 
Julez said:
I am using Actrapid.

Any 'clear' insulin is fast acting.

Yeah, I am a nurse so I understand a fair amount regarding insulin safety.

10iu's, that's a lot, IMO. Did you work up to that, what sort of gains did you see.

Do you think I should do it at the begining of my AS(test,deca,dball) or not...(I think it should work VERY well in conjunction with steroids).

10iu's is not alot, its a standard dose of slin taken in one shot, average doses range from 20 to 40iu's taken in devided (usually 3) shots throughout the day, if you take your simple carbs right after the shot of slin you got nothing to worry about, 10g of carbs for each 1iu of slin, very simple
 
Julez said:
Shit, Actrapid is a soluble insulin which means it's action is upto 8 hours. Shit. I will try and get some Humamlog, this seem better due to the short duration.

I understand though that you have to be a lot more careful as there is a lot less room for error with log. I also whould prefer to start with log since it seems to keep fat gain to a minimum the best.
 
Insulin is one supplement that you can use for many different purposes in your arsenal. Here some ways I use it:

To Cut Without AS:
Overall daily calories 500 below maintenace. Inject 5ius preworkout to block cortisol. Drink a 25g carb/50g pro drink while lifting. Inject 5ius postworkout to block cortisol and shuttle nutrients. Drink 50g carb/ 50g pro drink. 1 hour after second inject, eat a carb meal with 25g's and lots of protein, 1 hour after that, do the same. Supplement taken are HCA 1500mgs, ALA 100mgs with each meal, ECA stack WHEN INSULIN IS NOT ACTIVE. Results are nice.

To keep gains post cycle:
Overall daily calories at maintenace. 2g Vit C preworkout to block cortisol. Postworkout inject 10ius and drink 75g carb/50g pro drink. 2 hour later eat a meal with 50g carb and lots of protein. Supplements taken are same as above except with no ECA.

I always cycle insulin 2 weeks on/ 2 weeks off. :)
 
man i just saw this

im sorry primal but i cannot agree

taking insulin before a workout is just plain dangerous

i understand that you are taking 25 grams of carbs with that but that is the minimum safety amount and who knows how much you are burning while working out

insulin dependent diabetics can go into hypoglycemic shock if to active after a slin shot

and so can you
 
Considering if you're sets are low, (6-8 sets per body part) and you have a carb/protein drink on hand the dangers are minimal. The main reason why I like to take humulin R before a workout during post-cycle training is because it undoubtedly nails cortisol to the wall. Research says that when one comes off an AAS cycle, they're cortisol levels are through the roof.
 
bump

I am coming off soon.

Have some clen and phosphatidylserine

what are your opinions on mixing clen and slin?

I have heard its good and bad.

I am thinking of humalog post workout.
 
strong island not ignoring you but i do not have the answer to that one

primal x wont taking the insulin post workout do the same thing or are you saying the cortisol hurts during the workout and if so how quickly are you saying the insulin combats this

also 6 to 8 sets per body part im not sure i understand you. just how much and how long are you working out

if you are having an intense workout for a long time you can really deplete muscle glycogen and free blood sugar levels. if this happens you could be in trouble

it sounds like you have done this more than once and seem to be getting through just fine so ok but for sure i would not recommend this method... mabey you can convince me but i doubt it

and thanks for keepin it civil (alot of guys go nuts when someone disagrees with them on this board... and thats fun sometimes, but insulin is something that should always be taken seriously so some kid dosent do something he will regret)
 
acneman said:
primal x wont taking the insulin post workout do the same thing or are you saying the cortisol hurts during the workout and if so how quickly are you saying the insulin combats this

also 6 to 8 sets per body part im not sure i understand you. just how much and how long are you working out
NO! Taking insulin post workout will not give the same benefits as pre-workout. Cortisol starts to build up after you do your first set, and gets more potent as the workout lengthens. Taking insulin pre-workout will halt the production of cortisol for as long as the insulin is active in the body. 6-8 sets per bodypart takes me about 20-25 minutes to do including rest time. Keep the reps low and drink your carb/pro drink and you will be fine. :)
 
acneman said:
bump for all you sliners

Slin still scares the shit out of me.

Fonz
 
sk* said:


What are your gains bro and how are you running it?

I am using 10iu's postworkout. I am on a 2 on 1 off regimen that will last 4 weeks. I also take creatine and gluta.. with it. I am off aas and have been for 2 months, but still was able to gain strength with the slin, specially my squats since I have been doing the 20 rep squat set outlined by Iron Addict. I have gained about 4 lbs which is good for post cycle, specially since I was really shut down by my last fina-deca-test run. I do admit that I gained a bit of fat so you really have to pay close attention to your diet.
 
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