Extreme CKD - Mr. X, others?

[MrMakaveli]

I've decided to try and combine Pwb's ultimate fat-loss diet with a carb up to avoid too much muscle loss. So here is what Im planning to do for as long as I can stand it:

diet type: CKD, 6 days on/1 day off

150g protein a day
minimal fat - Since fat is not required to establish ketosis.
0 carbs

I will be following the workout plan outlined in Mr. X's ckd manual but I have one question. I've always thought that intervals were better for fat-loss and retaining muscle than traidtional fat-loss zone cardio but since my diet requires that I spare glucose whenever possible would it be better to do 45-60 min traditional cardio or the 20 minutes of intervals?

I know my metabolism will slow 20-25% or so and I know the rebound will be fairly harsh (still working out a plan to minimize this). As for leptin, I have a fiarly large bf%, so I should be okay for a few weeks I would think.

stats 5'11, 172, 20% (According to accu-measure)

Any tips about what type of cardio I should do is greatly appreciated.

oh btw..yes...I do like self-inflicted pain, hehe

 

[plornive]

I think you should increase protein to 200g and make sure you get your essential fatty acids, fiber through some firbous veggies, vitamins/minerals with a multi, calcium and vit. C pills.

Add lots of arginine and use creatine. Try http://www.beyond-a-century.com

Do very slow cardio. Intensity requires glucose.

Do *very* low reps with intensity a la nclifter6feet6 --- this will used stored muscle ATP and not require as much glycogen.

Stimulants always help...

 

[Manu]

Plornive, can you tell me the deal with arginine?
Also i read your post : "Looking for a litle extra kick?"

http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=152056&highlight=arginine

what's the effect of glycerine?

Thanks

 

[plornive]

I like glycerine because I can just drink a shitload of water all at once and it is absorbed with the glycerine... I don't just piss it out. It proveides energy without affecting insulin. It can either be metabolized directly or utilized by the liver to pruduce blood sugar. Either way it will not have any net effect on blood sugar. If you don't drink enough water with it, it can dehydrate your head a bit (literally) so drink lots of water with it. It is good for removing subcutaneous water in this way, but that is not how I use it.

Arginine helps you get a good pump... think if it as Viagra for your muscles. I believe that it will help your strength on a low carb diet. Or maybe it just feels good when my bipeps are "erect". Some people say it is good for growth hormone, fat mobilization, etc. but that is a moot point since these effects are negligible if anything.

Creatine... well, creatine makes you stronger. It is very well suited to a low carb diet because it increases muscle ATP levels. This means that your muscles will wait a bit longer during a set before using glycogen. It will use mostly stored ATP if your reps are low. This is important because muscle glycogen is low on a reduced calorie diet, especially a low-carb diet. If taken pre-workout or immediately post-workout, it can still be absorbed without much carbs.

Some people like "TRAC", a brand name arginine creatine mixture. REally, you can just buy something similar from Beyond a Century.

 

[Manu]

Great Plornive
Here's something i will try. I am more familierised with creatine but also was questioning if the absortion would be good in low carb diet.
2 questions: what would be the dosage for arginine?
Glicerine is easy to find? that name is really familiar. but once again what would be the dosage?
Thanks plornive.

 

[plornive]

Maybe 1 Tbsp of glycerine. Twinlab makes it for about $7 for a pretty big container.

TRAC contains 4g creatine and 4g arginine. I suggest finding some "formula" from Beyond a Century that contains some arginine, creatine, maybe some other stuff to enhance aborption, too. TRAC also contains some maltodextrin. Therefore, preworkout carbohydrate would help significantly for absorption, but isn't necessary.

I like 20g Isopure + glycerine + creatine + arginine + some maltodextrin (maybe 10 g only).

Make sure you drink an absolute TON of water with it because of the creatine and glycerine.

 

[plornive]

By the way. The reason I mentioned arginine and creatine is that I am at the tail end of a container of TRAC that I got for cheap on Ebay. It worked a lot better than just creatine. It seriously increased my strength to a surprising degree and I enjoyed the pump. TRAC is a good formula but is overpriced. BAC has lots of amino acid and creatine mixes I would like to try.

 

[MASSIVEmorris]

Hmm, I've always been skeptical of 'TRAC' ...maybe I'll give it a try sometime soon.

 

[Kid Dynamite]

I've decided to try and combine Pwb's ultimate fat-loss diet with a carb up to avoid too much muscle loss. So here is what Im planning to do for as long as I can stand it:

diet type: CKD, 6 days on/1 day off

150g protein a day
minimal fat - Since fat is not required to establish ketosis.
0 carbs

I will be following the workout plan outlined in Mr. X's ckd manual but I have one question. I've always thought that intervals were better for fat-loss and retaining muscle than traidtional fat-loss zone cardio but since my diet requires that I spare glucose whenever possible would it be better to do 45-60 min traditional cardio or the 20 minutes of intervals?

I know my metabolism will slow 20-25% or so and I know the rebound will be fairly harsh (still working out a plan to minimize this). As for leptin, I have a fiarly large bf%, so I should be okay for a few weeks I would think.

stats 5'11, 172, 20% (According to accu-measure)

Any tips about what type of cardio I should do is greatly appreciated.

oh btw..yes...I do like self-inflicted pain, hehe

"Frankensteining" diets together usually fail. Why are you eating only 600kcal a day? Why not just use a normal diet? Are you in a hurry to be ripped?

 

[CytoMel]

Kid Dynamite is right.

600 calories a day you will hardly be able to stand uo without getting dizzy after a few days. You will also burn up your muscles very quickly. Well I guess you are gonna try it so good luck on it and keep us up on your progress.

 

[Manu]

It seems we might have here a sort of "crossed" thread. Or maybe not.

Plornive:
I've found this Arginine pyroglutamate with some lisine by tropicana. I'm thinking on mixing the stuff with the pre-workout shake. The time of comsumption (if taken alone) would be 1.30 to 2 hours prior to training (it says in label) wich maybe isn't so good for taking at the same time with the rest of the components. What do you think? Usually how much time before workout do you take that TRAC?
Also i think i'm right to think isopure is Whey protein...?

Thanks

 

[Manu]

Is the glycerine you mention by twinlab called "Glycerol Fuel"? or i am making confusion?
THanks

 

[plornive]

Plornive:
I've found this Arginine pyroglutamate with some lisine by tropicana. I'm thinking on mixing the stuff with the pre-workout shake. The time of comsumption (if taken alone) would be 1.30 to 2 hours prior to training (it says in label) wich maybe isn't so good for taking at the same time with the rest of the components. What do you think? Usually how much time before workout do you take that TRAC?

I really don't know. I only know about stuff that I have taken and I haven't taken the stuff you have. I think you should follow the directions to start with and experiment with it. I think there are lots of amino acids and amino acid blends to help with NO signalling, etc.

I take TRAC about 20 minutes before lifting with glycerine. Maybe 1Tbsp glycerine and 20g whey if I have it there --- Isopure zero carb whey but kind of protein will work. Steak, whey, whatever, as long as it does not make your stomach uncomfortable. Whey may be good because it will release amino acids into the blood for about the time between taking it and the post workout meal.

Also i think i'm right to think isopure is Whey protein...?

Yes

Is the glycerine you mention by twinlab called "Glycerol Fuel"? or i am making confusion?

Yes again. Remember that if you don't drink enough water, it might make your workout worse or something. Drink a TON of water and it will help you to hydrate your muscles and hold more water in your veins to be absorbed by your muscles. Glycerine is hydrophyllic (spelling?). Actually, I think immediately pre-workout may be a bit late to take glycerine. 1-2 hours pre-workout might be better, but immediately pre-workout will still help you to stay hydrated near the end of your workout. I haven't figured it out exactly yet.

 

[plornive]

Re: Re: Extreme CKD - Mr. X, others?

"Frankensteining" diets together usually fail. Why are you eating only 600kcal a day? Why not just use a normal diet? Are you in a hurry to be ripped?

It is just a very low calorie CKD, nothing more complicated. I figured he had already decided to lose some fat and muscle very quickly and unhealthily.

 

[Manu]

Once again Thanks plornive

 

[Mr.X]

I've decided to try and combine Pwb's ultimate fat-loss diet with a carb up to avoid too much muscle loss. So here is what Im planning to do for as long as I can stand it:

diet type: CKD, 6 days on/1 day off

150g protein a day
minimal fat - Since fat is not required to establish ketosis.
0 carbs

I will be following the workout plan outlined in Mr. X's ckd manual but I have one question. I've always thought that intervals were better for fat-loss and retaining muscle than traidtional fat-loss zone cardio but since my diet requires that I spare glucose whenever possible would it be better to do 45-60 min traditional cardio or the 20 minutes of intervals?

I know my metabolism will slow 20-25% or so and I know the rebound will be fairly harsh (still working out a plan to minimize this). As for leptin, I have a fiarly large bf%, so I should be okay for a few weeks I would think.

stats 5'11, 172, 20% (According to accu-measure)

Any tips about what type of cardio I should do is greatly appreciated.

oh btw..yes...I do like self-inflicted pain, hehe

You're reading too much between the lines....Just do cardio post workout on the treadmill for 20min...make sure to follow certain ratios because protein (too much of it) can kick you out of ketosis....have a lot of EFA's and good luck...

don't over do the cardio, you'll put yourself in a highly catabolic state

Mr.X

 

[Kid Dynamite]

Re: Re: Re: Extreme CKD - Mr. X, others?

It is just a very low calorie CKD, nothing more complicated. I figured he had already decided to lose some fat and muscle very quickly and unhealthily.

Good point. Might as well try to help somebody out once they decide on something.