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estrogen buildup....

calveless wonder

New member
i couldn't really find a place for this(possibly the women's board), but i figure this is the best place to ask.

here's my problem
My girlfriend has been on a combination of progesterone and estrogen hormones for quite a while since she can no longer produce extrogenous estrogen. However, she was in a very bad financial situation awhile back and stopped taking them for about 2-3 months.

when i found out she stopped taking them, i made her go back on them immediately...I noticed she was extremely unstable and moody and had absolutely ZERO sex drive.
She's been back on them for about 3 weeks but all that has disappeared is the hot flashes and other minor effects. The major issues (her mood, sex drive) are still a major problem. The thought of anything intimate actually disgusts her.
I'm getting extremely worried because she's not acting like herself at all and all rational thought has left her. she's become extremely pessimistic and depressed in alot of ways, which is the complete opposite of who she normally is. It's basically like she has a split personality...and she realizes it, but can't control the way she feels.


I know it's the lack of hormones but typically how long does it take for levels to stabilize?
 
meatneck said:
umm..did you ever think about taking her to a doctor and consulting him/her there? just a thought.

she doesn't have insurance......which is a major problem.......

and honestly i can't afford to cover her medical bills at this point in time.

if anyone has any other advice how to deal with these symptoms it would be deeply appreciated.

I thought about giving her Sam-E to deal with the depression, but as far as sex drive goes, she has absolutely no passion whatsoever which is very unusual.
 
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A womans sex drive is contolled by testosterone not estrogen or any form of progesterone. She can take androgel for that.

Hope this helps!
 
Just make sure she doesnt exceed 2.5g a week or else she will get facial hair. Here is a copy and paste of numerous studies. Best of luck bro!

Several studies show that injections of the male hormone, testosterone, can heighten sexual desire in postmenopausal women who have lost interest in making love, but the benefit of testosterone for menstruating women has not been as well established.

A middle-aged woman's interest in making love is related to her blood level of male hormones (1) and not her female ones (2). A young girl's first sexual experience and first masturbation are associated with a rise in blood levels of her male hormones, not her female ones (3). A woman's blood level of male hormones drops as she ages (4). Like older men, older women with low blood levels of male hormones are more likely to lack interest in making love and can benefit from taking male hormones (5,6,7).

Just as arteriosclerotic older men are more likely to be impotent and suffer heart attacks, women with arteriosclerosis, when stimulated, have reduced vaginal lubrication and wall engorgement and decreased clitoral lengthening (8). There is little evidence to show that unhappiness in marriage is a major cause of general loss of interest in lovemaking, as marital counseling has little effect of sexual interest, while the new drug Viagra has a major effect (9). Low doses of testosterone do not cause any changes in cholesterol, triglycerides, clotting factors and the ovaries (10). If you are in a healthful relationship and are not overworked or sick, your doctor can prescribe Androgel, which is testosterone in gel form (applied to the skin); do not exceed 2.5 grams per week. Other options are a combination estrogen-testosterone pill (Estratest. 0.625 esterified estrogen plus 2.5 mg testosterone) or injections of testosterone enanthate (100 mg once a week for three doses.)

1) A Floter, J Nathorstboos, K Carlstrom, B Vonschoultz. Androgen status and sexual life in perimenopausal women. Menopause - the Journal of the North American Menopause Society 4: 2 (SUM 1997):95-100. androstenedione.

2) J Nathorstboos, I Wiklund, LA Mattsson, K Sandin, B Vonschoultz. Is Sexual Life Influenced by Transdermal Estrogen Therapy - A Double Blind Placebo Controlled Study in Postmenopausal Women. Acta Obstetricia et Gynecologica Scandinavica 1994(Nov);72(8):656-660.

3) CT Halpern, JR Udry, C Suchindran. Testosterone predicts initiation of coitus in adolescent females. Psychosomatic Medicine 59: 2 (MAR-APR 1997):161-171.

4) T Mushayandebvu, VD Castracane, T Gimpel, T Adel, N Santoro. Evidence for diminished midcycle ovarian androgen production in older reproductive aged women. Fertility and Sterility 65: 4 (APR 1996):721-723.

5) Cardozo L et al. The effects of subcutaneous hormone implants during the climacteric. Maturitas 1984;5:177-184.

6) Burger HG et al. The management of persistant menopausal symptoms wuth estradiol-testosterone implants: clinical, lipid and h ormonal results. Maturitas 1984;6:351-358.

7) SR Davis. The role of androgens and the menopause in the female sexual response. International Journal of Impotence Research 10: Suppl. 2 (MAY 1998):S82-S83.

8) I Goldstein, JR Berman. Vasculogenic female sexual dysfunction: vaginal engorgement and clitoral erectile insufficiency syndromes. International Journal of Impotence Research. 10: Suppl. 2(MAY 1998):S84-S90. 8) PEM Lottman, JCM Hendriks, PA Vruggink, EJH Meuleman. The impact of marital satisfaction and psychological counselling on the outcome of ICI-treatment in men with ED. International Journal of Impotence Research 10: 2(JUN 1998):83-87.

9) HM Buckler, K Mcelhone, PN Durrington, MI Mackness, CA Ludlam, FCW Wu.The effects of low-dose testosterone treatment on lipid metabolism, clotting factors and ultrasonographic ovarian morphology in women. Clinical Endocrinology 49: 2 (AUG 1998):173-178.
 
Lastly, the article mentions being sick, stress and having a good relationship, the fourth thing he forgot to mention (author is my mentor) is privacy. You girlfriend should have as much privacy as she needs.

Feel free to PM me with any questions.
 
One last study...
A study from Australia in the medical journal, Menopause, shows that Androgel, a gel containing the male hormone, testosterone, improves well-being, mood, and sexual function in premenopausal women with low libido and low testosterone. As women age, many lose interest in making love and feel insecure, even though their blood levels of the male hormones testosterone and DHEAS are normal or low. The bodies of all heathy women produce more of the male hormone, testosterone, than the female hormone, estrogen. Just like men, with aging women have a significant lowering of their blood testosterone levels, and this lowering of testosterone can cause depression and loss of muscle strength and sexual desire. Healthy women in their 40's have approximately half the testosterone level as women in their 20's.

A group of reproductive endocrinologists classified the symptoms of depression and loss of libido and muscle strength into one syndrome which they called Female Androgen Insufficiency Syndrome. This syndrome is most common at the menopause and in women who have had their ovaries removed, but it can occur any time in a woman's life. The commonly-prescribed treatment of estrogen replacement to postmenopausal women and those who have had their ovaries removed often causes and worsens this syndrome.

The brain produces a hormone called FSH that causes the ovaries to produce the female hormone, estrogen. Estrogen circulates in the blood and goes to the brain, where it stops the brain from producing FSH. Without FSH, the ovaries stop making the male hormone, testosterone. Women who have had their ovaries removed suffer from the same symptoms Many studies show that giving estrogen to menopausal women may reduce their sex drive by lowering blood levels of testosterone. A woman's sexual desire is driven by her body's production of testosterone, not estrogen.ecause the ovaries produce most of the male hormones in a woman's body. So women who suffer from Androgen Deficiency Syndrome caused by taking estrogen at menopause or by having had their ovaries removed surgically can feel much better when they take a combination of the two hormones produced by normal ovaries: estrogen and testosterone.

The adrenal glands, located near the kidneys, also produce a male hormones, called DHEAS. Women who have underactive adrenal glands have low blood levels of that hormone, and also suffer from Female Androgen Deficiency Syndrome. Their symptoms can be controlled by taking DHEA supplements.

If you are a woman who has even one of the following symptoms, ask your doctor to test you for lack of male hormones: depression, lack of motivation, loss of energy, lack of interest in making love, lack of joy in making love, muscle weakness, osteoporosis or weak bones, or vaginal pain during intercourse. Ask your doctor to draw blood tests for testosterone, the male hormone produced by the ovaries, and DHEAS, the male hormone produced by the adrenal glands. Even if your blood levels of the male hormones are normal, you could still try the testosterone cream, Androgel. Too much of the cream can cause masculinizing symptoms, but as long as you do not exceed 2.5 grams of Androgel each week, you are at low risk for growing hair on your face and body.

1) Transdermal testosterone therapy improves well-being, mood, and sexual function in premenopausal women. Menopause - the Journal of the North American Menopause Society, 2003, Vol 10, Iss 5, pp 390-398. R Goldstat, E Briganti, J Tran, R Wolfe, SR Davis. Davis SR, Jean Hailes Fdn, Res Unit, 173 Carinish Rd, Clayton, Vic 3168, AUSTRALIA.

1a) Androgen production in women. Fertility and Sterility, 2002, Vol 77, Iss 4, Suppl. 4, pp S3-S5. HG Burger.

2)Aromatization of androgens in women: current concepts and findings. Fertility and Sterility, 2002, Vol 77, Iss 4, Suppl. 4, pp S6-S10. ER Simpson.

3)Role of androgens in female genital sexual arousal: receptor expression, structure, and function. Fertility and Sterility, 2002, Vol 77, Iss 4, Suppl. 4, pp S11-S18. AM Traish, N Kim, K Min, R Munarriz, I Goldstein.

4) Dehydroepiandrosterone: a springboard hormone for female sexuality. Fertility and Sterility, 2002, Vol 77, Iss 4, Suppl. 4, pp S19-S25. RF Spark.

5) Hormones, mood, sexuality, and the menopausal transition. Fertility and Sterility, 2002, Vol 77, Iss 4, Suppl. 4, pp S42-S48. L Dennerstein, J Randolph, J Taffe, E Dudley, H Burger.

6) Randomized clinical trials of combined estrogen-androgen preparations: effects on sexual functioning. Fertility and Sterility, 2002, Vol 77, Iss 4, Suppl. 4, pp S49-S54. BB Sherwin. 7) Sexual effects of androgens in women: some theoretical considerations. Fertility and Sterility, 2002, Vol 77, Iss 4, Suppl. 4, pp S55-S59. J Bancroft. 8) Androgen deficiency in the oophorectomized woman. Fertility and Sterility, 2002, Vol 77, Iss 4, Suppl. 4, pp S60-S62. JL Shifren. 9) Androgen deficiency: menopause and estrogen-related factors. Fertility and Sterility, 2002, Vol 77, Iss 4, Suppl. 4, pp S63-S67. PM Sarrel.

10) When to suspect androgen deficiency other than at menopause. Fertility and Sterility, 2002, Vol 77, Iss 4, Suppl. 4, pp S68-S71. SR Davis.

11) The hypoandrogenic woman: pathophysiologic overview. Fertility and Sterility, 2002, Vol 77, Iss 4, Suppl. 4, pp S72-S76. GA Bachmann.

12) Estrogen replacement therapy: effects on the endogenous androgen milieu. Fertility and Sterility, 2002, Vol 77, Iss 4, Suppl. 4, pp. S77-S82. JA Simon.

13) Female androgen insufficiency: the Princeton consensus statement on definition, classification, and assessment. Fertility and Sterility, 2002, Vol 77, Iss 4, pp 660-665. G Bachmann, J Bancroft, G Braunstein, H Burger, S Davis, L Dennerstein, I Goldstein, A Guay, S Leiblum, R Lobo, M Notelovitz, R Rosen, P Sarrel, B Sherwin, J Simon, E Simpson, J Shifren, R Spark, A Traish.
 
Thanks..that was very good info. Makes sense on alot of levels. She is under a great deal of stress right now and was sick recently. She also got very upset over something in which she thought i invaded her privacy...it was very minor but in the state she's in it was a big deal. just wish i had known that before the fact.

if androgel is not acquireable, what would be a good substitute? i noticed it said test enathate but i would never under any circumstances want to administer a wrong dosage. i saw estratest but thats difficult to acquire
 
Although its in the study, i dont think that is conventional medicine to adminster test enathate for 3 weeks. First because it would be a rollercoaster ride of emotions as levels dropped a couple days before next injection. Secondly, its affects will only last so long.

Androgel is perscribed everyday for this sort of thing. I would print out the two reports I gave you and bring them to you doctor. If he won't do it, find another. However you did mention that she was sick, needed some privacy ect. So psychological issues (those that are idiopathic) could easily be affecting her hormones.

Again the study mentions that estrogen actually worsened sex drive (although it does decrease vaginal dryness for some.) Also keep in mind that androgel can be used at a very small amount (upto 2.5 grams a week or half of one daily packet) with astonishing results!

Even if your blood levels of the male hormones are normal, you could still try the testosterone cream, Androgel. Too much of the cream can cause masculinizing symptoms, but as long as you do not exceed 2.5 grams of Androgel each week, you are at low risk for growing hair on your face and body.
 
calveless wonder has exceeded their stored private messages quota and can not accept further messages until they clear some space.
Sorry I dont, but please read my last post. I think you would be making a mistake to self adminster. That is an incredible amount for a woman who is def. past menopause.
Why was she taking the hormones at her age in first place?
 
CLOMIDCLOWN said:
Sorry I dont, but please read my last post. I think you would be making a mistake to self adminster. That is an incredible amount for a woman who is def. past menopause.
Why was she taking the hormones at her age in first place?

long story but her ovaries are no longer functional.the only reason i asked is because she doesn't have insurance and androgel and doctor's visits would be extremely expensive given her current situation. That is something to look at later but for the time being something has to be done.

what i don't understand is that she's been taken estrogen and progesterone with no testosrone for years and she was fine....

it was only when she went off the hormones cold turkey did she encounter such problems.
 
it was only when she went off the hormones cold turkey did she encounter such problems.

Really cant say for sure. May be a similar rxn to stopping thyroid med or testosterone therapy cold turkey. These are medications that are supposed to be taken for life, not discontinued unless a doctor advises it.

If you want I will look into the 3 injection scheme but I need more information about her condition. What was she diagnosed with? Do both ovaries no longer function?
 
CLOMIDCLOWN said:
If you want I will look into the 3 injection scheme but I need more information about her condition. What was she diagnosed with? Do both ovaries no longer function?

thanks bro...i really appreciate if you could do that.

As far as her hormones go, her body simply can't produce them anymore. Both her ovaries don't fuction at all. She relies solely on HRT



and pittsburgh, thanks for your help as well. i went ahead and sent you an e-mail
 
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As far as her hormones go, her body simply can't produce them anymore. Both her ovaries don't fuction at all. She relies solely on HRT

Does she have cysts on her ovaries? What was the actual name of her diagnosis?
 
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