Ergopharm 6-OXO

[John G]

Ergopharm 6-OXO

Can I substitute this for Clomid post cycle? 3 weeks after my last shot of sust, can I use this product instead of Clomid to get my levels back to normal?

 

[RipDsel]

As of right now i doubt anyone has an answer to that question..The oxo's are 2 new to tell..Not many studies on it have been posted..on the ergopharm website they talk as if you can however, but bump for anyone that might actually know

 

[feelin_kinda_saucey]

in all honesty why would you do that when you can buy clomid legally and easily over the internet for a much cheaper price then the 6-oxo.... i mean you have taken the step of using real gear, why not follow it up with a real test proven product that is cheap and easy to obtain ...

 

[John G]

Feelin

Basically because my source doesn't have Clomid right now. He wants 90 dollars for I think 30 tabs. If I can buy of the internet I would love to know a source.I basically do not know any.

 

[SlapItHard]

pumpnpose.com

 

[feelin_kinda_saucey]

pumpnpose.com

liquid clomiphen citrate, 50ml, 50mg per ml, for 30$ ......

 

[pa1ad]

in all honesty why would you do that when you can buy clomid legally and easily over the internet for a much cheaper price then the 6-oxo.... i mean you have taken the step of using real gear, why not follow it up with a real test proven product that is cheap and easy to obtain ...

It is my opinion that aromatase inhbitors (arimidex, 6-oxo) are much better for bodybuilders then estrogen receptor antagonists like clomid and tamoxifen. Both can raise testosterone levels but these ERT's have estrogenic activity in the liver which promotes undesirable effects like lowering of IGF-1 and raising of SHBG.

 

[feelin_kinda_saucey]

It is my opinion that aromatase inhbitors (arimidex, 6-oxo) are much better for bodybuilders then estrogen receptor antagonists like clomid and tamoxifen. Both can raise testosterone levels but these ERT's have estrogenic activity in the liver which promotes undesirable effects like lowering of IGF-1 and raising of SHBG.

I think your 1-ad is a great product and i sell it to many people every day, but until your "6-oxo" has some real world justification to back your claims , please dont tell people it is a better choice for post cycle recovery than CLOMID... especially since his cycle consited of GEAR and not 1-ad.

Youve said yourself that you are not a magician and cannot compete with products like CLOMID and Arimidex because they are synthetic compounds that cost millions of dollars to produceand all you have to work with is naturally occuring compounds.... STICK WITH WHAT YOU SAID...

 

[Nutri-Wrestler]

Hey pat. maybe you should fund a little experiment. buy me a cycle and ill be the lab rat

 

[pa1ad]

I think your 1-ad is a great product and i sell it to many people every day, but until your "6-oxo" has some real world justification to back your claims , please dont tell people it is a better choice for post cycle recovery than CLOMID... especially since his cycle consited of GEAR and not 1-ad.

Youve said yourself that you are not a magician and cannot compete with products like CLOMID and Arimidex because they are synthetic compounds that cost millions of dollars to produceand all you have to work with is naturally occuring compounds.... STICK WITH WHAT YOU SAID...

Please read what i said. If you want, eliminate the reference to 6-oxo from my post, because its not really vital to the message anyway. NOw re-read it.

I am making a case that aromatase inhibitors are a better choice than ERT's for bodybuilders. I guess the whole message went right over your head though because you were so eager to jump up and down claiming that i am saying 6-oxo is better than clomid (which was not my intention at all)

Gimme a friggin break

 

[feelin_kinda_saucey]

Please read what i said. If you want, eliminate the reference to 6-oxo from my post, because its not really vital to the message anyway. NOw re-read it.

I am making a case that aromatase inhibitors are a better choice than ERT's for bodybuilders. I guess the whole message went right over your head though because you were so eager to jump up and down claiming that i am saying 6-oxo is better than clomid (which was not my intention at all)

Gimme a friggin break

Go back and Re-read the thread starters post.. He is asking about clomid therapy. And for your information Arimidex is not a better choice for post cycle therapy then Clomid.....

And lets just say that you could prove Arimidex was a better choice, (and you cant) you can still purchase L-dex online cheaper than 6-OXO, with far better and TIME TESTED data behind it...

And like i said before , your 1-ad is a absolutely great product and your 6-oxo may turn out to give the same results, but for this guy to use this product at this time in its shorty history, I think is a mistake because he can purchase products that have been proven to work many times over.

 

[pa1ad]

Go back and Re-read the thread starters post.. He is asking about clomid therapy. And for your information Arimidex is not a better choice for post cycle therapy then Clomid.....

For my information? WEll gee, I certainly appreciate your willingness to educate me but.....

An effective aromatase inhibitor is always a better choice than a estrogen receptor antagonist.

I have a whole file full of articles on aromatase inhbitors and their effects on testosterone levels. I started studying the subject in 1996. They are very very efffective in raising testosterone, equally or more so than ERAs, and without the accompanying undesirable pro-estrogenic effects on the liver.

 

[pa1ad]

And lets just say that you could prove Arimidex was a better choice, (and you cant) you can still purchase L-dex online cheaper than 6-OXO, with far better and TIME TESTED data behind it...

Yes, you can purchase many things on line. Thank you for reminding me.

CAn you purchase l-dex in an actual supplement store? No you cannot, but you can purchase 6-OXO in a store

Furthermore, you can purchase neither 6-OXO nor l-dex in a flower shop.

I hope this information has proven educational for everyone!

 

[Nutri-Wrestler]

you alright pat? seem a little pissed off

 

[pa1ad]

you alright pat? seem a little pissed off

I know. Shit builds up and then little insignificant things make me snap. Better I snap here than at my booth at the Olympia. I might start pounding on 1fast400's purple barney head

 

[feelin_kinda_saucey]

Yes, you can purchase many things on line. Thank you for reminding me.

CAn you purchase l-dex in an actual supplement store? No you cannot, but you can purchase 6-OXO in a store

Furthermore, you can purchase neither 6-OXO nor l-dex in a flower shop.

I hope this information has proven educational for everyone!

Are we in a supplement store ?
No we are not .....

Are we in a FLOWER SHOP ?
NO we are not....

Are we ONLINE ?
YES we are.....

Can you obtain L-dex online easily and cheap?
Yes you can....

Is the person who asked the original question a PLATINUM MEMBER?
YES he is.....

Now do you think that means he has a CREDIT CARD and can order things online?
Yes he can....

I HOPE THIS INFORMATION HAS PROVEN EDUCATIONAL FOR YOU......

 

[pa1ad]

Are we in a supplement store ?
No we are not .....

Are we in a FLOWER SHOP ?
NO we are not....

Are we ONLINE ?
YES we are.....

Can you obtain L-dex online easily and cheap?
Yes you can....

Is the person who asked the original question a PLATINUM MEMBER?
YES he is.....

YOu said Platinum member. huh huh

BTW, where can i get l-dex? I might want to test some of this stuff.

 

[Baddogg]

how about we all try 6-oxo before we decide to put it down. ehh?

 

[feelin_kinda_saucey]

how about we all try 6-oxo before we decide to put it down. ehh?

im not bashing 6-oxo , just stated the simple fact you can buy clomid and L-dex online cheaper than 6-oxo... wich are both time tested and proven products....

 

[John G]

hehehe

Look at what I started . Thanks for the great info.

 

[fhg43]

It is my opinion that aromatase inhbitors (arimidex, 6-oxo) are much better for bodybuilders then estrogen receptor antagonists like clomid and tamoxifen. Both can raise testosterone levels but these ERT's have estrogenic activity in the liver which promotes undesirable effects like lowering of IGF-1 and raising of SHBG.

Okay....let's get back on topic

pa1ad-
I am a big fan of 1-AD. Had great luck with this past summer and hope to run an improved cycle this winter.

I ordered some 6-OXO and have decided to use that as my postcyle recovery supp. I was planning on using 300mg ED for 20 days. Does this sound like an appropriate dose? I was planning on running 1-AD @ 300-400mg for 6wks. This was a good dose for me last year. I was planning on adding some 4-AD (about 500mg ED) as well. I got good results.

Recently I read some studies that indicated aromatase inhibitors may actually lower IGF-1 levels (anastrozole-didn't see data on letrozole). As well I saw a study reporting that aromatase inhibitors (anastrozole) caused a rapid increase in atherosclerotic lesions in rat coronary arteries! Eeek!

Testosterone inhibits early atherogenesis by conversion to estradiol: Critical role of aromatase

Obviously you didn't do major clinical studies on 6-OXO, but would it have a similar side effect? Any thoughts on if the lesions would be specific to the pharmaceutical AIs or rats? 6-OXO is a suicide inhibitor so it works in a slightly different manner, correct? Besides causing aromatase to suicide does 6-OXO have any other hormonal effects like helping LH levels return to normal?

thanks,
FHG

 

[fhg43]

^^^^^^

up

 

[fhg43]

up again

 

[pa1ad]

Okay....let's get back on topic

pa1ad-
I am a big fan of 1-AD. Had great luck with this past summer and hope to run an improved cycle this winter.

I ordered some 6-OXO and have decided to use that as my postcyle recovery supp. I was planning on using 300mg ED for 20 days. Does this sound like an appropriate dose? I was planning on running 1-AD @ 300-400mg for 6wks. This was a good dose for me last year. I was planning on adding some 4-AD (about 500mg ED) as well. I got good results.

Recently I read some studies that indicated aromatase inhibitors may actually lower IGF-1 levels (anastrozole-didn't see data on letrozole). As well I saw a study reporting that aromatase inhibitors (anastrozole) caused a rapid increase in atherosclerotic lesions in rat coronary arteries! Eeek!

Testosterone inhibits early atherogenesis by conversion to estradiol: Critical role of aromatase

Obviously you didn't do major clinical studies on 6-OXO, but would it have a similar side effect? Any thoughts on if the lesions would be specific to the pharmaceutical AIs or rats? 6-OXO is a suicide inhibitor so it works in a slightly different manner, correct? Besides causing aromatase to suicide does 6-OXO have any other hormonal effects like helping LH levels return to normal?

thanks,
FHG

Your 6-OXO protocol sounds fine. And yes, 6-OXO should have the ability to raise LH as it lowers estrogen.

The other questions, as you might expect, are ones I cannot answer.

 

[fhg43]

Your 6-OXO protocol sounds fine. And yes, 6-OXO should have the ability to raise LH as it lowers estrogen.

Good-thanks for the reassurance.

The other questions, as you might expect, are ones I cannot answer.

I guess I'll take that. What did you think of the study?

thanks,
FHG

 

[pa1ad]

I guess I'll take that. What did you think of the study?

thanks,
FHG

Since its just one study and its done in rats I am not falling off my chair in fear. However, this study does give incentive to limit aromatase inhibitor usage to only those periods when it is urgently needed - i.e. post cycle

 

[davin8r]

Let's assume that estrogen (and/or its metabolites) are anti-atherosclerotic in nature, as the above study and other studies strongly suggest.

Now let's say that a person does a cycle of non-aromatizable androgen (1-Test or 1-AD, for instance), which lowers estrogen by inhibition of the HPTA. Then, at the end of the cycle, that person takes an anti-estrogen compound for a couple of weeks with the hope of inducing faster recovery of the HPTA, before again starting on a new cycle of non-aromatizable androgen.

Isn't this kind of cycle going to cause chronically lowered estrogen levels (both on- and off-cycle)? If so, it sounds like it may be a perfect recipe for accelerated heart disease.

 

[Baddogg]

also would 6-oxo work well with macca post cycle?

 

[fhg43]

Let's assume that estrogen (and/or its metabolites) are anti-atherosclerotic in nature, as the above study and other studies strongly suggest.

Now let's say that a person does a cycle of non-aromatizable androgen (1-Test or 1-AD, for instance), which lowers estrogen by inhibition of the HPTA. Then, at the end of the cycle, that person takes an anti-estrogen compound for a couple of weeks with the hope of inducing faster recovery of the HPTA, before again starting on a new cycle of non-aromatizable androgen.

Isn't this kind of cycle going to cause chronically lowered estrogen levels (both on- and off-cycle)? If so, it sounds like it may be a perfect recipe for accelerated heart disease.

I don't think that you run into problems using non aromatizing androgens. I think you run into problems using the aromatase inhibitors post cycle-basically you are taking your lowered E levels and knocking them down more. Conversely, through negative feedback our body is increasing production of aromatase so as soon as you stop the anti-Es your body has a signifcant amount of aromatase ready to go.

I don't think this type of ycle will chronically lower E levels. Your body will return to normal. However repeated use of anabolic agents will probably screw up your bodies natural ability to regulate hormones. And chronic use of anti-Es could have a negative effect on E levels (ie working to chronically reduce E levels or causing them to be unnaturally high). Basically plan out smart cycles and don't cycle too much.

FHG

So IMO you want to taper anti-Es and use them in conjunction with other items (clomid and trib maybe) to speed recovery.

 

[pa1ad]

Let's assume that estrogen (and/or its metabolites) are anti-atherosclerotic in nature, as the above study and other studies strongly suggest.

Now let's say that a person does a cycle of non-aromatizable androgen (1-Test or 1-AD, for instance), which lowers estrogen by inhibition of the HPTA. Then, at the end of the cycle, that person takes an anti-estrogen compound for a couple of weeks with the hope of inducing faster recovery of the HPTA, before again starting on a new cycle of non-aromatizable androgen.

Isn't this kind of cycle going to cause chronically lowered estrogen levels (both on- and off-cycle)? If so, it sounds like it may be a perfect recipe for accelerated heart disease.

I think the research in this area is still in its infancy so no one can really answer this