Don't run from cops, mang (video)

[Dial_tone]

http://208.185.54.25/wm.gannett/wxia/meeks_082304.wmv
(use windows media player to play)

cop executes a "pit maneuver" (where they take out the rearend to spin the person out) at 100+mph. the driver, a 21 year old girl...with no criminal record, and her passenger....are killed instantly.

 

[jh1]

Stupid. They should have backed off.

That poor passenger... just an victim of it all.

 

[Razorguns]

good. Everyone on the freeway was being put in danger because of her. What really infuriates me is when cops let a dangerous driver continue his little chase -- then he careems into a mini-van with a father and his 3 daughters -- and all are killed.

then the driver gets like 2 years jail sentence. whoopee.

if you put my life in danger -- you deserve to get taken out. Weeding of the gene pool.

 

[gab9681]

I wonder why they were running? I bet that cop feels like shit, but he was just doing his job.

 

[Dial_tone]

I wonder why they were running?

Speeding.....too much EA Sports NASCAR 2004.

 

[Becoming]

1- Who are you going to outrun in a small truck on the highway? try offroad next time
2- You are not going to outrun a radio
3- Why are you running unless it is for some serious shit (bank robbery, murder, etc)
4- They learned that shit from nascar
5- Turn in the direction of the skid

 

[Ish]

How long until cops aren't allowed to do that?

 

[danielson]

hmmm

doesnt seem justitfied somehow, especially with the scrutiny over other proffesionals actions (doctors, politicians etc)

why was that the first thing they tried at high speed? why not try and go alongside her, or even fire a few shots....its too much of a waste, especially the passenger who might not have had any control over the drivers actions

 

[Dial_tone]

The highway looked too busy for puncture strips and she probably still would've lost control of the vehicle. I don' think they're allowed to shoot tires.

 

[Robert Jan]

why didn't they overtake them and go in front of them and brake a bit or something

or shoot at the back tires.

im surprised the car didn't start rolling sideways instead of slipping sideways.

 

[Carl Carlson]

Firing shots? To shoot her or her tires? Are you serious? Anyhoo, the pit maneuver is standard procedure for cops and personally I think they did the right thing. The chase went on for 70 miles and who knows how much longer it would've gone on for and like someone else said, she was putting everyone else on the road at risk.

 

[Y_lifter]

After seeing that video, I bet there are a few teens that will think twice
about running from the cops now..

2 Wasted lives Sad

 

[Robert Jan]

what would have happened had they shot her rear tire at that speed?

I bet theyd go off the road too unless you can get both rear tires at the same time lol.

 

[Robert Jan]

I always used to do the pit manauvre in racing video games

 

[danielson]

i guess maybe its lost in the fact its only a 1minute video

It looks like its the first thing they tried, where they might have tried pulling alongside earlier and trying to wave her down. If they followed their procedure and she wouldnt stop then yes, i guess they did the right thing. fuck, i cant see a reason not to use a shotgun on the tires though

 

[Y_lifter]

Where were the Stop Sticks ?
Probably the roadway was too busy to use them..

 

[strongsmartsexy]

Throw 'em in jail. Murder one, then execute them.

 

[Razorguns]

we can do two things:

use pit maneuvers and try stopping them: (works 95% of the time with no fatalities)

or we can give the death penalty to assholes like them who kill innocent people during their chases.

either or.

As far as i'm concerned, there's no difference between her -- and a guy rollin' down the freeway blasting everyone with a shotgun. It's a 5,000lb killing machine on the loose. If i crash into her head-on at an intersection, the fact that she's a 21 y/o chick makes no difference to me. I'm dead.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

we can do two things:

use pit maneuvers and try stopping them: (works 95% of the time with no fatalities)

or we can give the death penalty to assholes like them who kill innocent people during their chases.

either or.

As far as i'm concerned, there's no difference between her -- and a guy rollin' down the freeway blasting everyone with a shotgun. It's a 5,000lb killing machine on the loose. If i crash into her head-on at an intersection, the fact that she's a 21 y/o chick makes no difference to me. I'm dead.

Note no cops were killed during this process. Come to think of it, I don't recall cops being killed during one of these kinds of operations, however, the death toll on those being pursued is very high. Let's see, the death penalty for speeding... hmmmmmm Interesting.

I know that there are places on the 5 where if you're going 90, you should be in the SLOW lane.

 

[biteme]

Firing shots? To shoot her or her tires? Are you serious? Anyhoo, the pit maneuver is standard procedure for cops and personally I think they did the right thing. The chase went on for 70 miles and who knows how much longer it would've gone on for and like someone else said, she was putting everyone else on the road at risk.

Yeah, that's the bottom line. Sad though that some mother, father, brother, or sister lost family members. Probably just a dumb kid whose mistake cost her life and her friend's.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

Firing shots? To shoot her or her tires? Are you serious? Anyhoo, the pit maneuver is standard procedure for cops and personally I think they did the right thing. The chase went on for 70 miles and who knows how much longer it would've gone on for and like someone else said, she was putting everyone else on the road at risk.

Yes, shame on the cops for pursuing that far and then KILLING them. So instead of one person speeding, you now have several cars speeding. Good move. And gee, if they hadn't killed the girls and backed off, what would have happened then? Ya think she's have slowed down and gotten to her house safely after that? What is the likelyhood they had her auto license number? Did you know they can TRACK those things now?

 

[Razorguns]

if you don't pursue..guess what happens?

anarchy.

What's going to stop someone from busting into Circuit City, grabbing tons of merchandise -- then taking off as soon as the cops come, knowing full well they can't follow him? it's a FREE TICKET for an awesome life of crime! What about drug runners? Rapists? Parolees?

It's simple. Lights go on. You stop. Don't they teach that shit in high school anymore or when u get your license???? Couple years ago a guy runnin' from the cops almost t-boned me at an intersection. Fortunatley my fancy sports car was able to swerve a the last minute. God i wanted to grab him out of the car and beat him til he was lying in 15 pieces. One trip to the market to get some milk. La dee da. Nothing of it. 1.5 seconds out of nowhere -- you're dead.

 

[NJjuice22]

Yes, shame on the cops for pursuing that far and then KILLING them. So instead of one person speeding, you now have several cars speeding. Good move. And gee, if they hadn't killed the girls and backed off, what would have happened then? Ya think she's have slowed down and gotten to her house safely after that? What is the likelyhood they had her auto license number? Did you know they can TRACK those things now?

exactly, unless the kids commited some serious crime which they obviously didnt because it would have been mentioned immediatly to justify the trooper's actions, they should have just backed off and let it go.

 

[Razorguns]

exactly, unless the kids commited some serious crime which they obviously didnt because it would have been mentioned immediatly to justify the trooper's actions, they should have just backed off and let it go.

So if i'm a convicted murderer and i grab some old geezer's car -- they should let me go cuz it shows i'm some sweet old man?

btw: most weed drug runners these days are college kids.

 

[Carl Carlson]

Yes, shame on the cops for pursuing that far and then KILLING them. So instead of one person speeding, you now have several cars speeding. Good move. And gee, if they hadn't killed the girls and backed off, what would have happened then? Ya think she's have slowed down and gotten to her house safely after that? What is the likelyhood they had her auto license number? Did you know they can TRACK those things now?

Again, the pit maneuver is standard procedure. The cops were just doing their jobs and I can almost guarantee that they did not intend to kill the girl and her friend.

And since when is running from the cops OK?

 

[mdd]

that was text book on the cops end... too bad the dept will catch criticism for it. they already gave her 70 miles of chase, lucky she didnt kill SOMEONE ELSE!

 

[strongsmartsexy]

if you don't pursue..guess what happens?

anarchy.

What's going to stop someone from busting into Circuit City, grabbing tons of merchandise -- then taking off as soon as the cops come, knowing full well they can't follow him? it's a FREE TICKET for an awesome life of crime! What about drug runners? Rapists? Parolees?

It's simple. Lights go on. You stop. Don't they teach that shit in high school anymore or when u get your license???? Couple years ago a guy runnin' from the cops almost t-boned me at an intersection. Fortunatley my fancy sports car was able to swerve a the last minute. God i wanted to grab him out of the car and beat him til he was lying in 15 pieces. One trip to the market to get some milk. La dee da. Nothing of it. 1.5 seconds out of nowhere -- you're dead.

So, this woman and her passenger robbed a Circuit City? And the ONLY way to stop them was to KILL 'em? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to recognize that taking a vehicle out at that rate of speed is likely to kill the people in the vehicle. However, being as their cops it's understood they're not even close to intelligence enough to recognize that. Instead it was likely a "hey we were taught this cool trick, let's see if it works!" Damn the adreniline rush!

The notion of anarchy from a policy of backing off is retarded. If the cops had kept at 60mph, the people would likely have been going just fast enough to keep ahead of them. If the cops accelerate the others are likely as well.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

Again, the pit maneuver is standard procedure. The cops were just doing their jobs and I can almost guarantee that they did not intend to kill the girl and her friend.

And since when is running from the cops OK?

Just doing their jobs and standard procedure is a bullshit rationalization for killling those girls. That was not their only option.

Running from the cops is no more ok than the cops killing them using that manuver. It doesn't take a mental giant to recognize that performing that standard maneuver at that speed is likely to kill the occupants of the vehicle. Of course we already know that cops aren't mental giants.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

that was text book on the cops end... too bad the dept will catch criticism for it. they already gave her 70 miles of chase, lucky she didnt kill SOMEONE ELSE!

It was text book up to the point the girls were KILLED. I'm fairly confident that wasn't in their text book.

Let's see, this went on for 70 miles without incident, so it was critical for them to take out the vehicle, just in case. Any time LE takes action which results in the death of someone, they should carefully scrutinize what and why it was done.

 

[Lumberg]

can't see it cos it's streaming.

 

[Razorguns]

the primary mission of cops is to PROTECT THE PUBLIC.

if someone gets hurt as a result of the chase -- it's the cops fault. When the chase gets dangerous, it's their responsibilty to stop the chase and stop it NOW.

there have been laws in the past that prohibited cops from engaging in car chases based upon certain crimes. Guess what happened?

People started to talk. People getting speeding tickets wouldn't stop. They knew cops couldn't chase them. Drunk drivers wouldn't stop. People with felony records as passengers would tell drivers to keep going. Those laws didn't last long. Trust me, if i knew cops in my city can't chase speeders -- and i'm looking at $275 ticket and 3 points on my license if i stop -- guess what -- i ain't fucking stopping.

What looks good on paper doesn't work out perfectly in real life.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

the primary mission of cops is to PROTECT THE PUBLIC.

if someone gets hurt as a result of the chase -- it's the cops fault. When the chase gets dangerous, it's their responsibilty to stop the chase and stop it NOW.

there have been laws in the past that prohibited cops from engaging in car chases based upon certain crimes. Guess what happened?

People started to talk. People getting speeding tickets wouldn't stop. They knew cops couldn't chase them. Drunk drivers wouldn't stop. People with felony records as passengers would tell drivers to keep going. Those laws didn't last long. Trust me, if i knew cops in my city can't chase speeders -- and i'm looking at $275 ticket and 3 points on my license if i stop -- guess what -- i ain't fucking stopping.

What looks good on paper doesn't work out perfectly in real life.

Yes, so let's kill, maim or cause significant damage to vehicles and other stuff so the city/county doesn't lose the INCOME from the ticket. Gotcha.

You're in LA area. I'm just south of you, but lived in LA area for quite a few years. I don't recall a spike in the number of car chases you're talking about. It's nice and anecdotal, but unsubstantiated.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

the primary mission of cops is to PROTECT THE PUBLIC.

if someone gets hurt as a result of the chase -- it's the cops fault. When the chase gets dangerous, it's their responsibilty to stop the chase and stop it NOW.

The chase went on for 70 miles. It likely could have gone on for another 70miles without incident. If killing those girls is a definition of Protecting the Public then the notion is protection is very odd.

The chase wasn't dangerous/deadly until RamboCop stepped up and killed them.

 

[Razorguns]

It didn't happen in LA. But those temporary laws were passed in some smaller counties in other parts of the US. And all the smalltowns people knew and fewer people started stopping. Especiallly young kids running away from dragstrips or college kids going on joyrides.

After noticing the big free for all occuring, the PD's quickly recanted those policies. PD's try to do their best to make sure Joe Public knows that if you don't stop -- they WILL chase you. If not -- they lose a lot of leverage in society.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

It didn't happen in LA. But those temporary laws were passed in some smaller counties in other parts of the US. And all the smalltowns people knew and fewer people started stopping. Especiallly young kids running away from dragstrips or college kids going on joyrides.

After noticing the big free for all occuring, the PD's quickly recanted those policies. PD's try to do their best to make sure Joe Public knows that if you don't stop -- they WILL chase you. If not -- they lose a lot of leverage in society.

I'm all for them chasing and pursuing, RESPONSIBLY.

Fortunately for the rest of the people traveling on that freeway, the vehicle the cop hit took the course it did. If it had come back onto the freeway, imagine how many other vehicles could have been involved and how many other injuries and deaths could have occured as a result. Once again, why at 70 miles and not at 10 miles or 40 miles or 200miles? What was so critical at that point?

 

[Dial_tone]

When you evade the cops for 70 miles I think you intend for "something" to happen and you have more control over that "something" than the cops at that point. Stupid is as stupid does.

 

[Gambino]

A big fat LOL to the meatheads that wanna shoot out the back tires...do you realise how difficult it would be to do this while in a chase? Or the fact that the gas tank is near the rear? lolollololollolololol i rock

 

[curling]

MAn, I am going to have to agree with supersizeme here. I think the cops should have just let it go or back off and have a chopper chase them(they probably would have slowed down with no cops on them). I mean they didn't commit a horrrible enough crime for the cops to take that kind of action. The cops were just being pigs.

 

[fyxgel2]

Firing shots? To shoot her or her tires? Are you serious? Anyhoo, the pit maneuver is standard procedure for cops and personally I think they did the right thing. The chase went on for 70 miles and who knows how much longer it would've gone on for and like someone else said, she was putting everyone else on the road at risk.

what are you thinking? That cop was an asshole to do what he did. She wasnt putting people on the road at risk nearly as much as that cop put her life at risk (and ended up killing her) and the innocent passenger.

If the cop stopped chasing the girl over a stupid speeding ticket, none of this would have happened. This shows to say how anal cops are when it comes to being the "big boss" on the road, and what kind of hell it can bring.

 

[fyxgel2]

Razorguns and anyone else who sides with him and the cops,

you guys are assholes to think that the cops did the right thing.
major fucking assholes.

The actions of the cop, were the result of having a "little too much testosterone" and not wanting to be the loser of the car chase. I doubt it had anything to do with public safety because we all know that if the cop had stopped chasing her, none of this would have happened.

 

[supersizeme]

Thanks, curling. Even though I didn't post on this thread until this post I'm making right now, it's good to know I've got backers.

That said, as tragic as it is that these kids had to die, they put every other law abiding citizen on that highway at risk by running so I've got no problems with what the cops did. You reap what you sow sometimes.

 

[fyxgel2]

if you don't pursue..guess what happens?

anarchy.

What's going to stop someone from busting into Circuit City, grabbing tons of merchandise -- then taking off as soon as the cops come, knowing full well they can't follow him? it's a FREE TICKET for an awesome life of crime! What about drug runners? Rapists? Parolees?

THey were chasing her over something as minor as speeding!! Granted many times its good to pursue. Like if you have a dangerous person on the loose, who has murdered tons of people or something. But for something as minor as speeding?? Seriously, cops need to make better judgement calls in situations like this.

Wait, I got a brilliant idea!
How about next time I see a cop car speeding, I chase them inside a big fast pickup and turn some lights on, and shout out the window with a megaphone telling them to pull over. Oh yeah, and I'll have a big flashlight and a gun at my side just to make myself look professional and scary.

And then if the cop doesnt pull over right away, then I will ram into him with my gigantic truck, in hopes that he spins out, so I can throw him up against the side of his vehicle, search him, and handcuff him,
while in the mean time talking to him as if he is a bad bad person, and I am way better than him, and make him my bitch. I'll make sure to cuss in his face and tease him to while I'm at it.


Maybe anarchy isnt a bad thing, if it gets us to throw away laws and customs that are rediculous and adopt ones which are much more useful and beneficial to society.

 

[Fast Twitch Fiber]

The funny thing is these chicks were probably in their own cars or their parents cars. They probably could have got their plate number and been waiting for them at home. We have a lot of cops that get off on this type of danger and excitement.

 

[curling]

Thanks, curling. Even though I didn't post on this thread until this post I'm making right now, it's good to know I've got backers.

That said, as tragic as it is that these kids had to die, they put every other law abiding citizen on that highway at risk by running so I've got no problems with what the cops did. You reap what you sow sometimes.

Dang it I mentioned the double "s'er" poster instead of the the triple "s'er" poster. I meant to say strongsmartsxy instead.

You of course are totally wrong supersizeme. They went 70 miles without killing anybody and people in germany go over 100mph all the time without killing anybody. Speed doesn't kill bad driving kills and the driver in the suv from what I observed was making safe passes.

 

[Dial_tone]

The funny thing is these chicks were probably in their own cars or their parents cars. They probably could have got their plate number and been waiting for them at home. We have a lot of cops that get off on this type of danger and excitement.

You're assuming they were going home and not fleeing the scene of some other crime that they aren't yet suspected of being involved in.

 

[fyxgel2]

Again, the pit maneuver is standard procedure. The cops were just doing their jobs and I can almost guarantee that they did not intend to kill the girl and her friend.

Standard procedure. Policy, blah blah blah. Anyone who restricts themselves to standard procedures in all situations, either has no mind for judgement of each scenario, or no heart for people. Or maybe both.

Just doing their jobs and standard procedure is a bullshit rationalization for killling those girls. That was not their only option.

Amen. I should slap all the bitches who keep on saying "standard procedure"

And since when is running from the cops OK?

How about if you want to find a creative way to resist the laws of America,
And maybe you are someone who feels demeaned by someone forcing you to pull over if you felt that you havent done anything wrong?

 

[curling]

Man, I have always wanted to run from the cops. What a rush. I haven't done since I was a kid on a dirtbike. And now that I have a sport bike it would be soooo easy to do. But they made it a felony now and I like my guns. Dang fuddy duddy lawmakers.

 

[onebigab]

After seeing that video, I bet there are a few teens that will think twice
about running from the cops now..

2 Wasted lives Sad

Do you really believe this. It doesn't work. Unfortunately.

 

[fyxgel2]

People started to talk. People getting speeding tickets wouldn't stop. They knew cops couldn't chase them. Drunk drivers wouldn't stop. People with felony records as passengers would tell drivers to keep going. Those laws didn't last long. Trust me, if i knew cops in my city can't chase speeders -- and i'm looking at $275 ticket and 3 points on my license if i stop -- guess what -- i ain't fucking stopping.

What looks good on paper doesn't work out perfectly in real life.

Personally I believe if its a minor crime (like speeding) people shouldnt have to stop. There shouldnt be laws about speeding in the first place. Speeding is not the main cause of accidents. Incompetent driving is what causes accidents. And its not like you can get ticketed for incompetent driving (looking off to the side while going 70 mph, etc)

But if you were concerned about speeding laws, and wanted to enforce them, all you would have to do is just write down the person's license plate number and fine them big time, from running away from you.

Fortunately for the rest of the people traveling on that freeway, the vehicle the cop hit took the course it did. If it had come back onto the freeway, imagine how many other vehicles could have been involved and how many other injuries and deaths could have occured as a result.

exactly! There were cars on the road that the cop passed up in the chase. Had the truck span out and done a 180, or went out and went back on the road, THAT could have been a serious hazard to PUBLIC SAFETY.

 

[Dial_tone]

Personally I believe if its a minor crime (like speeding) people shouldnt have to stop. There shouldnt be laws about speeding in the first place. Speeding is not the main cause of accidents. Incompetent driving is what causes accidents. And its not like you can get ticketed for incompetent driving (looking off to the side while going 70 mph, etc)

Incompetent drivers speeding causes accidents.

But if you were concerned about speeding laws, and wanted to enforce them, all you would have to do is just write down the person's license plate number and fine them big time, from running away from you.

Assuming they make it home without killing anyone. I see your cluelessness regarding women extends to automotive safety.
The NHTSA estimates that the cost to society due to auto accidents caused by speeding is 27.4 billion dollars per year. Auto accidents are a leading cause of injury and death in all age groups. Approximately 6,000,000 auto accidents occur each year with 40,000 fatalities.
Alcohol is involved in 40% of these fatalities, and speeding is involved in 29% of all vehicle accident fatalities. Young drivers (15-20) and older drivers (>69) both have driver fatality rates much higher than drivers between the ages of 25 and 69.

 

[fyxgel2]

Incompetent drivers speeding causes accidents.



Assuming they make it home without killing anyone. I see your cluelessness regarding women extends to automotive safety.

you really think it would have been that hard for them to make it home without killing someone? Well, #1) if the cops stopped pursuit, they could have easily driven home safely.

or #2) if they had such a hard-on about catching these girls and making them pay right then right there (instead of showing up at their house and waiting for them) They could have just chased her until she ran out of gas.

again I don't think that she would have killed anyone. I am going to quote something that was mentioned earlier:

"They went 70 miles without killing anybody and people in germany go over 100mph all the time without killing anybody. Speed doesn't kill bad driving kills and the driver in the suv from what I observed was making safe passes"

 

[supersizeme]

Dang it I mentioned the double "s'er" poster instead of the the triple "s'er" poster. I meant to say strongsmartsxy instead.

You of course are totally wrong supersizeme. They went 70 miles without killing anybody and people in germany go over 100mph all the time without killing anybody. Speed doesn't kill bad driving kills and the driver in the suv from what I observed was making safe passes.

Heheh.

My argument wasn't that they killed anybody, but rather the fact that they endagered people's lives doing what they did. I don't care if they went 5,000 miles without killing anybody, that doesn't take away the fact that they endangered innocent people's lives with a high speed chase like that. All it would take is one mistake on the part of the driver causing the exact same accident only with an innocent person driving down the road.

It's not fair to compare America's highways with Germany's. Germany for one doesn't have a speed limit, so it's expected that you're going to have people going well over 100mph and other drivers are prepared for it(i.e. they stay in the right lanes). They enforce the proper usage of the left lane ten times more than we do here. It's MUCH safer to go 100+ mph over there than it is here.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

Heheh.

My argument wasn't that they killed anybody, but rather the fact that they endagered people's lives doing what they did. I don't care if they went 5,000 miles without killing anybody, that doesn't take away the fact that they endangered innocent people's lives with a high speed chase like that. All it would take is one mistake on the part of the driver causing the exact same accident only with an innocent person driving down the road.

It's not fair to compare America's highways with Germany's. Germany for one doesn't have a speed limit, so it's expected that you're going to have people going well over 100mph and other drivers are prepared for it(i.e. they stay in the right lanes). They enforce the proper usage of the left lane ten times more than we do here. It's MUCH safer to go 100+ mph over there than it is here.

The cops endangered the lives of the other people on the freeway by escalating a puruit to high speeds and merely by doing pursuit. The cops endangered the lives of the other people on the freeway by striking the car causing it to go out of control. Fortunately, in this case, it didn't come back ON to the freeway to take out the other vehicles driving on that freeway. The cops destroyed the lives of the two girls in that vehicle given that they're DEAD.

 

[Razorguns]

you guys are assholes to think that the cops did the right thing. major fucking assholes.

Anyone can bitch and whine. It's what 99% of society does these days.

So why not be proactive. WHAT WOULD YOU SUGGEST??? How would you write the laws?

Ghee, not so simple now is it?

How do you

1) Protect the people on the freeways from dying
2) Ensure everyone and their mother doesn't start "driving away" everytime the lights go on.

Gangbangers, criminals, bank robbers, drug runners, rapists, felons, suspended drivers, immigrant smugglers, terrorists, etc. aren't stupid. If they find out cops can't chase them if they're in their friends car (who has a clean record) and all they gotta do is drive 5 mph over the limit -- WHO is gonna stop for the cops? Grandma???

I see lots of whining, but no solutions.

(personally i'd love to see a "no chase" law. That way if i ever get pulled over, i'll just flip onto the highway and take off. And if i get a ticket, i'll just say it wasn't me. Me: 1. State: $0).

 

[supersizeme]

The cops endangered the lives of the other people on the freeway by escalating a puruit to high speeds and merely by doing pursuit. The cops endangered the lives of the other people on the freeway by striking the car causing it to go out of control. Fortunately, in this case, it didn't come back ON to the freeway to take out the other vehicles driving on that freeway. The cops destroyed the lives of the two girls in that vehicle given that they're DEAD.

Like I said, you reap what you sow. You run from the cops when you've committed a crime, you need to be willing to accept the fact that in some rare cases, people die from this. The cops didn't intend to kill them, they were simply doing their job.

You can argue back and forth all day about the endangering of people's lives bit. I can easily come back and say that technically the criminals didn't stop when the cops were chasing them, so in doing so they now cause cops to endanger other people's lives in their requirement to give chase.

Bottom line is that these unfortunate idiots made a bad decision in regards to evading our law enforcement and paid for it with their lives.

 

[Razorguns]

I agree.

So WHO's responsible when innocent people die? The driver or the cops?

I'd love to see a "no chase" policy nationwide and see what happens to our streets. Maybe then people will reconsider when drug dealers are prancing all over the city.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

Like I said, you reap what you sow. You run from the cops when you've committed a crime, you need to be willing to accept the fact that in some rare cases, people die from this. The cops didn't intend to kill them, they were simply doing their job.

You can argue back and forth all day about the endangering of people's lives bit. I can easily come back and say that technically the criminals didn't stop when the cops were chasing them, so in doing so they now cause cops to endanger other people's lives in their requirement to give chase.

Bottom line is that these unfortunate idiots made a bad decision in regards to evading our law enforcement and paid for it with their lives.

The bottom line is the idiots (read COPS) made a bad decision and it took the lives of 2 young women.

Simply doing their jobs is a bullshit rationalization and over simplification of the issues surrounding this. The women should have pulled over when the cops put on their lights and or sirens. Absolutely. The point(s) in issue here are whether there were other options at that time to solving the same problem. Taking out a vehicle at 100mph with that technique is damn near guaranteed to kill the occupants of the vehicle.

The cops weren't caused to do anything. They made decisions on their own either according to or contrary to established "norms" for that particular department. Not surprisingly the rules of engagement are not universal across all police departments. What is considered acceptable for one city is deemed unacceptable in another city.

Secondarily instead of having ONE pursuit vehicle and one running vehicle moving at those speeds, you have several pursuit vehicles and one running vehicle. The odds of something dangerous happening has just increased significantly.

The cops ARE part of the real problem with these forms of activities, and their appropriate actions are crucial to the outcome of all pursuit activities just as it is with any weapons drawn/fired activities.

 

[gymrat]

I just think that is such a waste of life. If they were chasing her because a major offence then taking her off the road is jusifiable. But come on, her only office was a suspended drivvers liecence.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

I agree.

So WHO's responsible when innocent people die? The driver or the cops?

I'd love to see a "no chase" policy nationwide and see what happens to our streets. Maybe then people will reconsider when drug dealers are prancing all over the city.

If the person in control of the vehicle does something which causes the death or injury of others, they are responsible.

The cop who deliberately used that action on the vehicle is responsible for the deaths of those girls. If that cop hadn't done that they would still be alive today.

I don't think a "no chase" policy is good at all. I also don't think slamming a car at 100mph is good either.

Once again the issue is was it crucial at that point to take that action? Again, why not at the 10 mile mark? Why not at the 140 mile mark? What made the 70 mile mark crucial in this? Again it's judgment of the officer at the time. That judgement resulted in two deaths. Evaluating the outcome and the other possibilities to avoid killing people unnecessarily in the future is a GOOD thing.

 

[Razorguns]

But come on, her only office was a suspended drivvers liecence.

So if i wanna rob Circuit City -- all i gotta do is get my license suspended -- steal the shit. And if a cop comes behind me -- take off, and he'll just assume i'm doing it cuz of my license. Viola. I can run drugs, smuggle aliens, commit crimes, whatever i want! Gotta love loopholes!

btw the Mob when they want to smuggle shit around -- always use the most innocent and simplest looking people to do it for them. It's a great technique. C'mon, if you're delivering 50lbs of coke or weed -- you want to put it in a rusty car driven by a chulo gangbanger??? Might as well put a sign up that says "Hey Cops! I got drugs!".

The solution isn't easy. And i take offense to the fact that since she's a young female -- apparently the rules are different for her, than say a 35 y/o felon just out of the penn. They both could simply be on suspended licenses.

 

[biteme]

A lot of cop bashing on this thread. All or nothing statements calling cops morons. Guess what? A lot of them are good people. You wanna do their job? Someone has to. There are stupid people in every profession. I wish some of the stupid laws made by stupid people would change.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

A lot of cop bashing on this thread. All or nothing statements calling cops morons. Guess what? A lot of them are good people. You wanna do their job? Someone has to. There are stupid people in every profession. I wish some of the stupid laws made by stupid people would change.

Great, so they're good people. I'm a good person, but in the course of my profession decisions I make are not going to KILL someone. My dislike from cops comes from several things. I thought at one point I'd like to be a cop. I took courses in college for LE and met with and talked with a LOT of the cops in the classroom. Then I did a number of ride alongs. Hmmmmmm, it didn't take long for me to see the adreniline junkies within them who's self-righteous unthinking over ruled common sense and judgement.

In the same token, I've met some cops who are very level headed about the job they do and are enjoyable people to be around. However, the bottom line is, they'll "enforce" the "law" as they percieve it to be, and won't hesitate to find a way to get the maximal charges against you they possibly can even though reason may dictate otherwise. It's good for promotion, it's good for ego and it's good for the bragging rights stories.

 

[Forge]

Life is all about choices and dealing with the results of those choices.

In this case, the young woman CHOSE to flee from the police, officers who are charged with the duty of protecting the public from harm. The young woman's choice placed innocent people in danger, and the police have the responsibility to deal with that danger in order to protect US.

No one forced her to run, she could have pulled over immediately but instead she CHOSE to break the law. Now she is dead, but if she had made a better choice then she (and her passenger) would be alive today.

The officer didn't shoot her in the head, they didn't blow up the van with a rocket launcher, he attempted to remove her from the highway in order to protect innocent lives. It's a risky maneuver, and in this case it had a bad result, but NO ONE IS TO BLAME EXCEPT FOR HER!!!!!



The people in this thread who blame the cops and bash on them either have never been an officer or do not know anyone who has. The girl is to blame here, PERIOD.

 

[biteme]

I could not be a cop because I could not enforce laws that I don't believe in. I'd be fired within a week.

 

[Razorguns]

Once again the issue is was it crucial at that point to take that action? Again, why not at the 10 mile mark? Why not at the 140 mile mark? What made the 70 mile mark crucial in this? Again it's judgment of the officer at the time.

Okay so cop decides NOT to pit her.

Then 35 seconds later -- she slams into a mom and her 2 year old daughter in a stroller. Killing both.

Girl blames the cops. Cops blame her. She gets off scott free. Cops carry on with their business.

Justice done? Who lost? The two innocent people.

In YOUR view of how things should happen -- that's what can happen. How can you explain that to the families??

 

[strongsmartsexy]

Life is all about choices and dealing with the results of those choices.

In this case, the young woman CHOSE to flee from the police, officers who are charged with the duty of protecting the public from harm. The young woman's choice placed innocent people in danger, and the police have the responsibility to deal with that danger in order to protect US.

No one forced her to run, she could have pulled over immediately but instead she CHOSE to break the law. Now she is dead, but if she had made a better choice then she (and her passenger) would be alive today.

The officer didn't shoot her in the head, they didn't blow up the van with a rocket launcher, he attempted to remove her from the highway in order to protect innocent lives. It's a risky maneuver, and in this case it had a bad result, but NO ONE IS TO BLAME EXCEPT FOR HER!!!!!



The people in this thread who blame the cops and bash on them either have never been an officer or do not know anyone who has. The girl is to blame here, PERIOD.

Utter and complete bullshit! The cop is to blame for what occured. HIS action and ONLY his action caused that vehicle to do what it did. He did NOT HAVE to take that action then. It was NOT the only course of action for him to take. Given that he supposedly had training about it, he knew the risks to the driver and passengers in that vehicle. He would NOT have taken that action if it risked HIS life in doing so. He'd have found another avenue.

And your assertion about knowing cops etc is utter nonsense and patently untrue, and not relevant.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

Okay so cop decides NOT to pit her.

Then 35 seconds later -- THE COP slams into a mom and her 2 year old daughter in a stroller. Killing both.

Justice done? Who lost? The two innocent people.

In YOUR view of how things should happen -- that's what can happen. How can you explain that to the families??

*changed above text*

This is a poor example as the COPs had as much chance of slamming into that vehicle as the woman driving the other vehicle did.

 

[fyxgel2]

It's a risky maneuver, and in this case it had a bad result, but NO ONE IS TO BLAME EXCEPT FOR HER!!!!!

The people in this thread who blame the cops and bash on them either have never been an officer or do not know anyone who has. The girl is to blame here, PERIOD.

okay, how about this. next time I see a cop looking at me funny, I'll pull out a gun and shoot him in the face. What? But I had to... No one is to blame except for the cop! He looked at me funny, and I thought he was dangerous!

I could not be a cop because I could not enforce laws that I don't believe in. I'd be fired within a week.

This is the same reason why I could never be a cop. At least not in America.

 

[fyxgel2]

Then 35 seconds later -- she slams into a mom and her 2 year old daughter in a stroller. Killing both.

whats more likely to happen, This? Or the cop executing a pit manuever on a highway at 100 mph, resulting in a car being flung into a ditch killing the passengers inside?

I think the latter is a little more likely to occur, especially cuz the cop is TRYING to hit a vehicle, and the girl is not.

This is a poor example as the COPs had as much chance of slamming into that vehicle as the woman driving the other vehicle did.

VERY good point.

 

[Razorguns]

Okay tell ya what. Let me know where the playground is where your kids play everyday. I'll zip around at 100mph doing donuts and showing off.

When the cops come, be happy when they say there's nothing they can do unless i stop by myself. Until then, i can drive as fast as i want around your kids. The cops are to put MY safety first instead of the kids remember.

 

[XBiker]

Okay tell ya what. Let me know where the playground is where your kids play everyday. I'll zip around at 100mph doing donuts and showing off.

When the cops come, be happy when they say there's nothing they can do unless i stop by myself. Until then, i can drive as fast as i want around your kids. The cops are to put MY safety first instead of the kids remember.

The king of illogical logic and hypothetical situations has once again donned his throne.

Don't forget to wipe, flush, and wash.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

Okay tell ya what. Let me know where the playground is where your kids play everyday. I'll zip around at 100mph doing donuts and showing off.

When the cops come, be happy when they say there's nothing they can do unless i stop by myself. Until then, i can drive as fast as i want around your kids. The cops are to put MY safety first instead of the kids remember.

Are you going to take your ball and go home pouting too?

 

[fyxgel2]

The NHTSA estimates that the cost to society due to auto accidents caused by speeding is 27.4 billion dollars per year. Auto accidents are a leading cause of injury and death in all age groups. Approximately 6,000,000 auto accidents occur each year with 40,000 fatalities.
Alcohol is involved in 40% of these fatalities, and speeding is involved in 29% of all vehicle accident fatalities. Young drivers (15-20) and older drivers (>69) both have driver fatality rates much higher than drivers between the ages of 25 and 69.

I didnt get around to answering this earlier, but I will now. First off, I have a lot less mercy when it comes to drunk drivers than I would towards "speeders". I believe that drunk driving is definately a form of incompetent driving, but in many cases, "speeding" is not. The reason so many young drivers are involved in accidents is partially because they lack experience. All ages of people speed.
Which brings me to my next point. "Speeding is involved in 29% of vehicle fatalities" Hmmm, you know, I dont know about you but around here, the percentage of people "speeding" at all, even while they are driving regularly, is a LOT higher than that number, lol. If everyone sped, then 100% of the accidents would involve speeding. Yay! Whats your point?
Plus some of those drunk people are probably speeders.

You know why there are so many accidents? Because there are so many drivers on the road. We rely on cars in America for EVERYTHING. Some accidents are actually accidental ya know. People are gonna die if we use automobiles. I mean we have 2000-3000 lb cages of metal, shooting away at 60-70 mph at times. Even if we use
caution and safety skills while driving, we are still going to have quite a few more lethal accidents than we would if persay... no one drove cars period.

Lastly, even if the roads are safer when drivers arent "speeding", we lose a piece of freedom. The freedom to drive at the speed we like, and feel that we are safe driving at. And also we miss out on a lot of time efficiency. There are some roads with speed limits of 60 mph, that would be safe to drive 90 mph in, under the right conditions.
But nope, that cant happen, because cops are ALL ABOUT "POLICY".

Ironically though what many people fail to realize, is that driving alone causes a lot more deaths, that would occur, if we didnt drive at all. Wanna know the best way to get rid of automobile accidents? Get rid of cars.

But we dont get rid of cars, and everybody uses them. Why? Because they increase the quality of life. Because we are happy to have our country face millions of accidents per year if it means we can get anywhere we want in 1/10 of the time it would take to walk places. (and the lazy folks like this cuz you get to sit on your ass while driving, instead of exerting energy by moving yourself with your legs.)

So if people are willing to already risk lives to make life better, make journeys quicker, etc, then why are they so upset about making the speed limit a little higher, to make us EVEN MORE efficient?
It seems kinda silly to me, to only apply that principle partially.

 

[fyxgel2]

Okay tell ya what. Let me know where the playground is where your kids play everyday. I'll zip around at 100mph doing donuts and showing off.

When the cops come, be happy when they say there's nothing they can do unless i stop by myself. Until then, i can drive as fast as i want around your kids. The cops are to put MY safety first instead of the kids remember.

99.999999% of the population has the respect to not do donuts at 100mph while kids are at a playground nearby.

people need to rely on their moral conscience while they are driving. That, along with good decisions, can make the roads safer without having to deal with the hassle of a cop car, hiding out waiting for you so they can play the role of "your conscience"

 

[NJjuice22]

if you can justify running someone off the road at 100mph that hasnt murdered,shot,robbed someone your an idiot.

 

[Razorguns]

if you can justify running someone off the road at 100mph that hasnt murdered,shot,robbed someone your an idiot.

Problem is -- you don't know that UNTIL you pull them over and run a check. It could be Timothy McVeigh for all you know. If they had a "no chase" policy, and he decided to run -- he'd still be out there today.

food 4 thought.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

Problem is -- you don't know that UNTIL you pull them over and run a check. It could be Timothy McVeigh for all you know. If they had a "no chase" policy, and he decided to run -- he'd still be out there today.

food 4 thought.

I see, so we always want to deal with things in the 1/10,000th of 1% chance of something possibly occuring.

 

[Dial_tone]

If it's just a speeding ticket why run in the first place? unless you're black in which case they will plant some drugs on you and send you up river for years to come.


(somebody had to pull the race card )

 

[strongsmartsexy]

If it's just a speeding ticket why run in the first place? unless you're black in which case they will plant some drugs on you and send you up river for years to come.


(somebody had to pull the race card )

Hell, any more you don't even have to be black. You just have to LOOK like you might be a druggy.

 

[orca]

At 100 miles an hour what did they think was going to happen, it was going to skid to a slow gentle stop. IMO they did the wrong thing as they often do. SAd, sad,sad.

 

[Mr. dB]

Okay so cop decides NOT to pit her.

Then 35 seconds later -- she slams into a mom and her 2 year old daughter in a stroller. Killing both.

Girl blames the cops. Cops blame her. She gets off scott free. Cops carry on with their business.

Justice done? Who lost? The two innocent people.

In YOUR view of how things should happen -- that's what can happen. How can you explain that to the families??

Well, considering that she had managed to go for 70 miles already without running into anything, at what point in her evasion did it suddenly become necessary for the cops to attempt a risky procedure?

It was clearly not the appropriate response. Why couldn't they have tried a road block? Oh, other motorists would have been inconvenienced for a few minutes? Well, I guess it was worth wasting two young lives for that.

 

[Mr. dB]

Okay tell ya what. Let me know where the playground is where your kids play everyday. I'll zip around at 100mph doing donuts and showing off.

When the cops come, be happy when they say there's nothing they can do unless i stop by myself. Until then, i can drive as fast as i want around your kids. The cops are to put MY safety first instead of the kids remember.

"For God's sake, won't someone please think of the children!!!!"

 

[Whiskey]

I cna't believe that they did that. should have backed off. I wouldn't doubt it if the parents sue the popo

Whiskey

 

[fyxgel2]

Problem is -- you don't know that UNTIL you pull them over and run a check. It could be Timothy McVeigh for all you know. If they had a "no chase" policy, and he decided to run -- he'd still be out there today.

food 4 thought.

I got an idea, how about we just pull over EVERYONE, just to make sure we catch ALL the criminals!!!

 

[MAX 300]

I can't believe that cops, the ones who are supposed to protect society, can just get away with killing somebody for speeding.

Doesn't cops killing people bother you? I mean, wouldn't you be worried if a cop can use deadly force against you for any offence? Speeding is a very common offence, and this woman should have had her car impounded for that. The cops had her plate number and details they could have easily tracked her down. The fact that they killed her and then went on to justify their actions is unbelievable.

 

[manny78]

what would have happened had they shot her rear tire at that speed?

I bet theyd go off the road too unless you can get both rear tires at the same time lol.

You must be one very sharp shooter because hitting the rear tires while driving at 100mph is not easy at all.

Stop sticks were probably not the answer in this case considering the traffic.

Bottom line: she ran away and paid the price.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

You must be one very sharp shooter because hitting the rear tires while driving at 100mph is not easy at all.

Stop sticks were probably not the answer in this case considering the traffic.

Bottom line: she ran away and paid the price.

Heck it's tough enough for a cop to shoot accurately under pressure while standing stationary on foot let alone trying to make things work well at 100mph.


She and the innocent passenger paid A price. It wasn't the right price, but they surely paid it non the less. The cop gets to go home safely to his family. The families of the 2 victims go home to pain and agony and why. That was not the only solution. It was a bad choice.

 

[Dial_tone]

Heck it's tough enough for a cop to shoot accurately under pressure while standing stationary on foot let alone trying to make things work well at 100mph.

You, sir, apparently never watched Barnaby Jones. Buddy Ebsen could hit a guy right between the eyes from 50 feet away AND around a corner with a .22...ole boy had skillz.

She and the innocent passenger paid A price. It wasn't the right price, but they surely paid it non the less. The cop gets to go home safely to his family. The families of the 2 victims go home to pain and agony and why. That was not the only solution. It was a bad choice.

I think people need to take responsibility for their own actions. If that girl had said "you know what? I need to SLOW THE FUCK DOWN!", she'd be at home watchin "Last Comic Standing" right now.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

You, sir, apparently never watched Barnaby Jones. Buddy Ebsen could hit a guy right between the eyes from 50 feet away AND around a corner with a .22...ole boy had skillz.

Errr yeah, for an olde fart he did well. Musta been the country water made him such a good shot.

I think people need to take responsibility for their own actions. If that girl had said "you know what? I need to SLOW THE FUCK DOWN!", she'd be at home watchin "Last Comic Standing" right now.

If the cop hadn't hit her she's likely be watching "Last Comic Standing" from a jail cell right now if she didn't get bailed out. She didn't MAKE the cop hit her, it was a choice me made. NOT the right choice but a choice. The cop was responsible for the action which killed the two girls.

This almost reminds me of the "Well if you hadn't pissed me off I wouldn't have beat you up" arguments.

 

[Dial_tone]

well, don't speed and don't piss people off.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

well, don't speed and don't piss people off.

Errrrr, you've been in LA long enough to know that if you're NOT speeding you're pissing off a LOT of people!

 

[WalkingBeast]

Im not gonna back off!! Im not gonna back off! No...Im not gonna back off! Im not gonna jack off!!

 

[AristotleBC]

Razorguns and anyone else who sides with him and the cops,

you guys are assholes to think that the cops did the right thing.
major fucking assholes.

The actions of the cop, were the result of having a "little too much testosterone" and not wanting to be the loser of the car chase. I doubt it had anything to do with public safety because we all know that if the cop had stopped chasing her, none of this would have happened.

You don't know that she would stop if the cops backed off. She is already in an irrational state or she would not be running, so there is no telling whether she would stop or continue until she plowed into an innocent bystander. And if she was in a rational state, her culpability is that much more.

In my opinion, once you choose to put innocent lives at great risk by running from the cops, you forfeit any consideration towards you beyond getting you to stop. It's no different than someone wildly firing a gun in a crowded area.

 

[dirty~d~]

It's pretty easy to criticize from the safety of a desk chair. Being a cop is a 'screwed if you do, screwed if you don't' kind of job.

Go ahead, call me an asshole or a bitch, whichever you prefer... Shit happens while we do our jobs every day. Just because our bad decisions lead to mistakes that typically only piss off Accounting or Human Resources it doesn't make us any holier than a cop that screws up doing their job, as they were trained to do it. When you are responsible for the protection of people who (as a whole) have no respect for you or the laws you enforce it can get a little more challenging than a bad day at the NYSE. If you don't like the current laws we have then call your Congressmen (and women) and do something about it.

*sigh* I digress.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

You don't know that she would stop if the cops backed off. She is already in an irrational state or she would not be running, so there is no telling whether she would stop or continue until she plowed into an innocent bystander. And if she was in a rational state, her culpability is that much more.

In my opinion, once you choose to put innocent lives at great risk by running from the cops, you forfeit any consideration towards you beyond getting you to stop. It's no different than someone wildly firing a gun in a crowded area.

Comparing this to firing a gun in a crowded area is patently retarded.

Once you pull the trigger on that gun, you have no control over where that bullet goes. The driver of that vehicle obviously had competent enough control over the vehicle to maneuver around other vehicles on that freeway as was demonstrated on teh video.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

It's pretty easy to criticize from the safety of a desk chair. Being a cop is a 'screwed if you do, screwed if you don't' kind of job.

Go ahead, call me an asshole or a bitch, whichever you prefer... Shit happens while we do our jobs every day. Just because our bad decisions lead to mistakes that typically only piss off Accounting or Human Resources it doesn't make us any holier than a cop that screws up doing their job, as they were trained to do it. When you are responsible for the protection of people who (as a whole) have no respect for you or the laws you enforce it can get a little more challenging than a bad day at the NYSE. If you don't like the current laws we have then call your Congressmen (and women) and do something about it.

*sigh* I digress.

If you screw up in your job who gets killed?

If a cop screws up in their job who gets killed? (In this case the two women in the vehicle)

Notice the difference?

They have the responsibility to make rational decisions which do not unnecessarily risk other's lives. When someone is KILLED as a result of police action, critical review is required by law. Policies, procedures and rules of engagement may changed or altered based on the outcome of that critical review and investigation. If they have a current policy which continues to KILL people, it would seem you would want that policy changed.

The policies for these kidns of things are not based in the laws passed by congress, so your last statement isn't relevant. These policies vary from department to department.

 

[Y_lifter]

Regardless of which side you are on in this discussion...
If the driver would have stopped when lit up, all would be golden right now.

The girls would be home doing their nails and one would have a <$200 speeding ticket
The Cop that did the pit wouldn't be living with this the rest of his life.

Let THAT be the lesson here..

 

[Forge]

They have the responsibility to make rational decisions which do not unnecessarily risk other's lives. When someone is KILLED as a result of police action, critical review is required by law. Policies, procedures and rules of engagement may changed or altered based on the outcome of that critical review and investigation. If they have a current policy which continues to KILL people, it would seem you would want that policy changed.

The policies for these kidns of things are not based in the laws passed by congress, so your last statement isn't relevant. These policies vary from department to department.

FUCKHEAD, you are hopeless. I take it you don't know anyone who has ever been killed by a speeding motorist fleeing police? Well I do.

A good friend of mine from high school who's name was Adam was killed 6 years ago by an illegal immigrant fleeing police in a stolen vehicle. All Adam was doing was changing his flat tire along route 78 in PA. The illegal had been chased by police for many miles and was swerving in and out of traffic at high speed, while the cops chased but did not attempt to stop him. He tried to pass a rig on the outside and ran out of room, hitting Adam. My friend was killed instantly. The fucking illegal came away without a fucking scratch on him. This guy had no license, no insurance, hell he wasn't even a citizen. If the cops chasing him had done what these cops have done, Adam would be alive today.

You are advocting that the criminals should get more consideration than the innocents, wake the fuck up. ALL THIS WOMAN HAD TO DO WAS PULL THE FUCK OVER!!!! I'm sure if she had hit your mother along the way you would be blaming the police for inaction and demand their badges be turned in, hypocrite. What the police did here was insure that another Adam wasn't killed by her stupidity, and I applaud their actions.

 

[curling]

Does the parents of the passenger have the right to sue the cops? After all they killed her and she wasn't driving.

 

[Y_lifter]

Does the parents of the passenger have the right to sue the cops? After all they killed her and she wasn't driving.

Sure, whether or not they win is another story..

They should sue the driver that didn't stop.